Ember AV in Winston Salem has a seemingly mint pair of IVa for sale now, around $4k I believe. |
The wonders of brass strkes again.Superior sonic material plus its non-ferrous so it does not disturb the flow of those precious electrons bouncing from place to place. Tom |
I did the screw change. Changed all the screws on the drivers and the crossover plate. I did not do anything inside the speakers. Wnet to a hardware store like Tom said and got brass screws.
All said and done. It did make a difference. There was much less grain and the highs were smoother. This is a tweak for C-H-E-A-P. Makes good audible difference. Go for it guys!
Now since the cold bitter Canadian winter is approching, I will see what others think/ suggest for mods to the speaker.
Cheers,
genesis168 |
I replaced all the screws holding the speakers with stainless steel screws. Didn't replace the crossover screws. |
Did you replace all the steel mounting screws that hold the crossover in place? How about those around the tweeter dome and its plate mounting screws securing it to the cabinet with non-ferrous brass? Tom |
The speaker binding post replacement and elimination of the brass in the signal path have made a noticeable improvement in my IVAs. I would suggest this mod to IVA owners. Cost should be well under $200 with perhaps 2-3 hours of labor. Well worth the effort IMO. |
Tweeter upgrades?
Jadem6, not sure how much this answers your question but I spoke with Alan Hulsebus of Orca Design concerning Dynaudio tweeters, such as I have in my Duntech Princess speakers. He believes the D-28 and D-28-2 sound identical. As for the more expensive Esotar, the only difference he hears is about 1 dB gain in efficiency, otherwise, "same frequency response, same waterfall, same impedance, same distortion, same power handling, same soundstage."
Since I don't know which tweeter Dunlavy used in your SC-IVa, this may or may not be of interest. I will say that I've listened to a friend's system with the mid-sized Raven ribbon tweeter and find it to be somewhat more airy and detailed than my speakers. Also, I had the opportunity to listen to some JM Labs with their new beryllium tweeter in my system and, yes, it too may be marginally better. However, given the complexity of driver matching and crossover design that John Dunlavy put into my system and yours, what are our chances of making a change that "improves" our high ends? |
Update on new binding posts.
I purchased the Cardas CCGG long posts, direct gold plate over copper. The rings that are soldered to the ends of the cross-over wires appears to be brass. These rings were bolted to the original binding posts. I am going to get the brass out of the signal path by soldering the cross-over wires directly to the new Cardas binding posts. The brass rings has to degrade the sound. Hopefully the new binding posts and the elimination of the brass in the signal path will improve the sound. Any thoughts on this from other Dunlavy owners? |
I have thought about that myself and decided not to just because I wanted flexibility. I have both the bass and treble/mid-range wires on the same post so i don't need to jump on the binding post side. I still hope someday to bi-wire again, that being after I win the lottery.
Rja, your post got me thinking that this is one poor reason for not doing this. The nut on the inside of the binding post is almost always loosening and this can only make for a degradation of the sonic quality. I like your idea a lot, and I also would like to hear your thoughts on better quality posts.
The thing with for us Dunlavy owners is the resale prices are such that it makes no sense to change speakers. Besides what we buy? My feeling was putting a few hundred or a thousand into upgrading thew components will keep these speakers relevant for years to come.
BTW,, has anyone upgraded the tweeter, and how would one go about finding the right tweeter with the right measurements to fit the speaker? |
I've ordered new Cardas binding posts for my IVAs because I broke one. Currently the wires to the speaker posts are not soldered directly to the post but have soldered rings that are held to the posts by the nuts. Is there any benefit to soldering the wires directly to the post and eliminating the rings? Also, I removed the metal spacers that hold the binding post panels because I have speaker cables (Virtual Dynamics Revelation) that aren't flexible enough to fit into the recess. That's how I broke the binding post. Only down side is the posts are no longer flush with the speaker back which could cause problems in transport. Would like to hear your thoughts on the wires soldered dirctly to the binding posts. Thanks
|
Oooops -- just saw that Sean mentions this on another thread. Sorry! |
Just a minor note for those using new capacitors in a signal line: BEFORE isntalling, try charging the caps with a varistor going slowly from v. low voltage up to their rated voltage. Proceed CAREFULLY thereafter in performing installation. |
I concur with that Tom. The resistors were the only change in my first phase for the bass, and yet the bass was cleaned up and the leading edge of notes were more focused. The great thing about the resistors is you can get Eagle MOX resistors for $1.20 or Mundorf MOX resistors for $3.50. I chose the latter, but either way this may be the cheapest tweak available in this hobby. |
Jade when I replaced components in my SC4's the resistors of all things made for the greatest apparent differences.. Except coating the inside of the enclosure with Cascade VBloc which seals the wood pores like concrete.Keep at it and let us know stage by stage. Tom |
I have not quite completed my latest project of replacing the critical path capacitors, inductors and all of the resistors. I intend to write a full review including the process of establishing what components to use, as well as a hand drawn schematic for others to use if they choose to try this project.
What I can tell you now is I chose all Duelund components in the critical path and MOX resistors in the non-critical circuits. The improvement, although not as great as some have claimed is very worth the time and money. SMOOOOOOTH! Silky smooth is the first reaction. Resolution is increased, in visual terms it is as if I changed my computer screen resolution from a low setting to the highest and went from 256 colors to 1 million. All the same information is there, the presentation is just much higher quality. Some have stated that it is less grainy; I do not think this is the proper use of words in that I would not describe the Dunlavy IVa as grainy to begin with. Resolution in a visual sense is the best I can do.
Look for a full review in the coming months, I assure you it will be highly educational! It was for me.
Jade |
Agree. I've changed just about every other component a couple of times over but the Dunaly's sound better each time I make an upstream upgrade. In most cases they're not the weakest link.
Try drinking a Belgian beer while listening. Even better.
Andrew |
hello everybody,
I'am from Belgium, in Europe.
We have here several brand of speakers and other components of high end materials but,even with chauvinistic I'm obliged (and proud) to say that I never heard loudspeakers that have an so accurate,so equilibrated,so magic than my Dunlavy SC4a... I never heard something that compare, they are the unchanging elements of my system.
My system is composed with:
-2x accuphase A50v (used in twice-mono)
-Drive & Converter Accuphase dp-dc 90-91
-Pré-amp Accuphase C275v
-Some speakers Spendor SP100,Zingali monitor 115,TAD 300,
Dunlavy SC2
-sennheiser Orpheus (great...)
-DG28 Accuphase (useless)
-All in wireworld gold linked. |
Is there anyone out there that mods speaker crossovers, ie. changes out cheap parts with better parts? |
I almost bought a pair of Duntech. They are a bit wider as I recall. Nice sounding none the less, and it's great to hear I should be happy with my IVa's for years to come. I simply love them |
Jd,Yes I have a list of component values for my SC4's and not 4a's..You have the Focal woofers..So the values I have are probably different.It was for me very easy to unscrew and to slide the crossover out of the back of the speaker.The values were clearly marked on all the pairs I ever examined.Best bang for the buck and quickest to perform is resistor replacement.I would use the North Creek non inductive wire wound resistors these will handle the power are very quiet because of materal makeup. These parts need as much as 100 hrs for full breakin. I will be glad to help in any way I can.Tom |
Hi Tom, do you have a list of components and values for the capacitors and resistors you would suggest for me to change in my crossover? |
Yes we did talk about crossover upgrades by changing parts..and I also remember us speaking about the angled baffles that I used atop my SC4's to reduce bass cancelation caused by dissimilar distance between upper and lower woofers in relation to floor loading and ceiling loading..You should not have this variance in bass loading in the Athena.Never having heard the Athenas but familiar with the rest of the Dunlavy line there probably is a family history of crossover components.Tom |
I think ive discussed this with you briefly once before audiotweak. I have recently had to sell my 4a's and actually have a pair of Athena's on the way. I might be willing to try something like this if its not too involved and easily reversible. With my associated gear, the detail is great and although the sound is forward, it is not fatiguing in the least. There have been times however when I thought it would be possible to hear deeper into the music. For instance, on a particular recording, I could hear an instrument doing something if I had my ear up to the speaker but from my listening spot I couldn't quite make it out. I concluded that it was probably the room. Perhaps a better component in the crossover could have made a difference. Does this describe your experience? |
If you change the sand cast 10 cent resistors for non inductive type sold under the North Creek Music branded name or better yet a resistor bridge made of multiple Vishay metal film type's you will hear a world of detail released from a black grainless backround.. Your first exposure may bring tears to your eyes.The same improvement can be performed in many esoteric high priced speakers. I have a parked pair of much experimented on and highly modified SC4's.. I was told by a couple of speaker designers swapping resistors would make no difference..I hear them to be mistaken..Tom |
Like I said before, I loved my Dunlavy's for almost 4 years with the best ref stuff from ARC, Levinson, BAT etc... I think my upstream was pretty good!! I still miss the scale and weight of their presentation. After hearing my puppy 6's and Totems for example you realize the coloration factor. All in all a great speaker however. |
I seem to remember a test done with a pair of John Dunlavy's speakers where a professor of music was placed in front of the speakers and guitarist was brought in. The professor couldn't tell when the recording stopped and the actual guitarist started playing. That sure doesn't sound like "timbral problems" to me. Again, Any Professional Review will attest to the timbral accuracy of Dunlavy speakers. Im trying to be civil here, but I find Dave's comments just laughable. "Grainy Crossovers?" Ha, thats a good one. Thats almost in the same league with "Honky Midrange Coloration". If you hear grain, you are hearing upstream components my friend. And please keep this a review on Dunlavy's, not B&W's. |
Anybody hear the new B&W802D's...pretty sweet and tasty!! Might just have to get me a pair. I'm turnin my frown upside down and puttin away my floppy feat for good before the ACLU get's after me...thanks for the warning Daytrader. |
Artg...
you're going to have to do better than that to get invited...and for gosh-sakes stop insulting clowns!! |
Well, in that case I'll bring the grease paint and my BIG RED NOSE!!! |
I will chime in here, having met JD on several occasions - he is a class act, and while I dont believe he drinks anymore, he knows audio as well as anybody, and more imprtantantly, is a a "good soul" who would be a real asset to any party you clowns are contemplating :) !!!!! |
I'll bring the Bass Ale!! |
...You're all(Jadem6,Dave_b and Cmpromo) invited over my place for food & drinks(Jade can bring his 4s since he's keeping them) and we'll spin some favorite LPs.
What the heck, we might even have a good time!!
Life really is short; best to all,
DT |
I thank both Dave b and Daytrader for getting us past what became a very ugly follow-up to a review. As all things I have heard in audio, no two people hear or enjoy the same things. For my personal taste...
... I will stay with the Dunlavy. As Cmpromo found they are very sensitive to set-up (possibly too sensitive) and very equipment dependant. These two issues along with a very small sweet spot could be negatives for many people, not me however. to my ears their has not been another system that I have experienced that betters the sound of what I have.
I need not be right in any other persons mind, only my own in that it is me who listens the most. I simply hoped to share my personal experience with these speakers (and all my equipment) by writing a review. I am happy we all found a place where we could all talk with civility.
A special note to daytrader; I am very sorry you and I got off on an extremely bad start. I apologise hear in public for any immaturity I may have shown, I look at our comments and I am embarrassed for myself. I'm sorry, and yes, I did learn from my near death, I guess I remain flawed however.
JD |
All kidding aside, I owned the 5's for 4 years. As monitors they are fantastic. For rock at high spl's they are very good. For jazz, quite good...again, at moderately loud levels. Classical shows up there timbral problems and grainy crossovers. Not very airy on top. Expressiveness and tension at low volume levels is 'nil. Again, they are great speakers for what they do right...scale, weight, authority and slam. When one goes to a wilson, totem, Avalon etc...then you realize what was wrong! Nothing is perfect however, so enjoy the Dunlavy's for what they do right...we all have different tastes. |
Glad you guys could see the humor in that. One phrase that I like in regard to Dunlavy speakers is "Don't shoot the messenger" When I first recieved my 4a's, I thought they were bright and bass shy. I decided to play around a bit with placement and put them against the long wall 12 ft apart and sat 10 ft back. I eventually toed them in until the tweeters were firing almost directly at me. What I gained in the bass was substantial, not to mention a soundstage wider than the placement of the speakers and PINPOINT holographic imaging. Let me tell you, if you own these speakers and they don't image like minimonitors, you dont have them setup right - period. Read the professional reviews, they will tell you the same thing. What was amazing to me was that they imaged like this with mediocre gear. The midrange and high frequencys however were a different story. A move from a Krell to a Pass Labs amp just changed everything, no more glare, no more grain, no more listener fatigue and way more detail. I was literally hearing things I hadn't heard on my cd's before. This told me one thing. The speakers were letting me hear my amplifier, and I have never owned a speaker that showed changes in gear quite like these. A tribute to their honesty. Can you handle the truth? I guess some people can't. Fact: The Dunlavy 5's are the most widely used speaker in the cd mastering industry. |
Precisely! I've had so many speakers I have no connection emotionally with any of them. Must move on in my search for the next best..it's a sickness, but I enjoy it! Should have been a reviewer I geuss. Maybe Maggies?? |
Jadem6,
When I had mine I found that sleeping on my goose-down pillow made my 4As sound much better; the only thing honking then was me as I slept!
To many loudspeakers, not enough time...
DT |
Try stacking several geese in a D'appageeso array...smallest goose in the center, working your way out on either side with larger geese. Don't forget the felt around the box edges to aim the resultant HONK straight at your head...sounds best that way!! |
I've been testing different geese on the top of my speakers to see if they can help focus the honking. I tried some plastic decoys, but they tended to flatten the honk. I tried some wonderful rubber toy geese, but they made the honky bass to fat. I tried to contact a taxidermist, but he only had one goose, so I passed. I bought some wonderful Gund stuffed plush geese, but I felt they rolled off the top end of the honk. Then I found the perfect solution. two live Canadian geese caught at a local golf course. I leash them to the isolation bearings under my honk'n speakers without the factory bases. these buggers are amazing. they are able to mimic the honk perfectly. So life like! I may get rid of the Dunlavys and simply plug the speaker cables into the goose end. thank gosh David and his friends brought this honking to our attention, without his help I doubt i would have ever tried live goose horns! |
"Honky midrange coloration?" I dont know about the rest of you guys, but I just hate it when my Dunlavy's start honkin |
I'm not sure what your problem is daytrader, but I have the bills for all the above mentioned gear..actually only a small bit of what I've owned over the years. My dealers were soundex..(the owner is my friend) and Surround sounds exton, pa. If you have had a chance to own said gear yourself, then maybe you have a bit of understanding regarding the dunlavy's sound. Most reviews of the dunlavy's at the time mention the lack of lateral imaging. When you hear a truly uncolored and refined speaker system you understand the difference. That being said, I liked the dunlavy's alot while I had them, they were big, bold and full of life...exciting sounding! I have a good time playing around with different equipment...it's my hobby! Sometimes the synergy get's one closer to the music...other times not! The krell/ARC combo was actually quite thrilling..one of the most musical pairings I've heard! Perhaps your feelings are hurt for some reason? I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings...or was it all the gear I got to explore instead of just read about!! |
Dave b
If I read this right you have owned B&W 801N's, Wilson Watt/Puppy 6's, ML Prodigy's, Totem Forests and Winds since owning the Dunlavy’s for years. Something sounds funny here. Then you tell me you used a Krell to mate with the Dunlavy and Audio Research pre-amp. If that is true it must have been one hideous sounding system. I can not imagine a poorer match (Krell and AR), well given that you preferred the Wilson’s and B&W’s, I guess I understand. The final proof I needed to understand what your issues are, was your comment, “. Imaging was the biggest problem with the massive point source Dunlavy's...nothing beyond the sides and the comb filter effect of their own boxes limited the holography found in most of the other speakers I've owned.”. This is proof positive you have either never owned Dunlavy or you had them set up improperly. Either way I do not really care, I now understand where your comments come from, and I wish you luck finding what ever it is you’re looking for.
Daytrader, I didn’t expect you had anything else to offer.
J.D. |
Neville, i truely feel bad for you. Parting with the athenas is gonna hurt
Tjandra, when i went on a speaker hunt i traveled three states and listened to vandersteens, thiel, aerial, martin logans, revel, hales B&W (801n's couldn't even get in the game though i always allow for the possiblility of a really sucky audition room) Dunlavy IIIs, and a number of others i can't recall right now. The first time i heard the athenas (in a killer room at Audio Vidio Logic in Des Moines Iowa)i said these are the ones. Two more days of travel and listening did nothing other than confirm my original conclusion. I'm so satisfied that i don't even consider replacing them. I have recently heard the Wilson Sophias..wasn't impressed at all, and the Wilson Maxes...which totally blew me away. However the max system was carrying a retail price exceeding $150 k plus the room. Mine is closer to $25k.
Set up on the long wall and paired with VTL tubes in a less than perfect room my athenas totally dissappear. the soundstage can extend beyond the speakers though it is recording dependant. There is good depth to the sound stage and a natural sence of height. within that soundstage the imagining is very defined and stable. In comparison, the wilson sophias for example, sounded like small boxes setting on the floor.
Bass is tight and accurate and capable of getting quite deep when the recording calls for it, the highs are smooth and open with an airyness approaching planers and the mids are warm and natural with no honkiness (and i'm fully aware of how nasty a honky midrange can sound...just aint there on the athenas though i have heard complaints about the IVs and even the Vs from time to time). The highs were extremely sensitive to cables and tweaking. At one point my system had a horrible top end glare with a set of Pro Silway II cables in the CDP position. that problem ended up being cured by vibration control under the CDP. I also spent a lot of time setting up the speakers, not a plug and play arangement.
I've been a part time working musician for over 25 yrs and i go to a lot of live shows. The dunlavies do a great job on lifelike presentation of most instruments and reproduction of the feal of the performance within the limitations of my room and system. the only failings over live shows may be that they are a tad more laid back than the real deal. That may be a result of my system configuration as i prefer laid back for relaxation as opposed to an in-your-face EV sound system type of sound with huge subs pounding my brains out. I'm also fueling them with 185 wts/side which will barely power a monitor for a live system.
With small group Jazz acoustic, roots rock/folk or blues recordings and my amps in triod mode the reproduction of the instruments is extremely accurate. get into rock recordings of lesser quality things can take a harsh turn but that doesn't happen much.
in summary tjandra, for what you'll get out of your alethas if you sell them you will never touch a small fraction of what you have. They were about impossible to beat at full retail.
system:
VTL MB 185 monos on polychrystal stands
VTL 5.5 preamp
ACR CD-2
CJ Walker table with a Linn Basik arm
old B&o reciever for tuner and phono pre (even with this low budget approach to analog the old records still sound great)
Harmonic tech Pro Silway II between pre and CDP, truthlinks between amp and pre and between the B&O and pre
BMI eels on the pre and CDP, stock power cords on every thing else |
Hi Tjandra,
The Alethas are superb speakers - enjoy them. They need to be setup and partnered carefully, but if you do so, sonically they pay off big time - they are incredibly natural and coherent, dynamic with an amazing soundfield.
Of the numerous speakers I've heard since, the ones that I thought were outstanding were the Avantgarde Duo's - incredibly coherent, dynamic and natural. If you can, I'd highly recommend an audition. I'd love to own these but their sheer size and visual impact (which I love) are not condusive to my family harmony :(.
I will likely be forced to sell my Alethas in the not so distant future since I won't have the luxury of a dedicated room for them (which is currently my living room). Throwing them in the corners up against the wall kills the wonderful soundfield and makes the bass too prominent. So, I will likely be looking for a monitor or something small in their place.
All the best,
Neville |
Hi Njp,
How do you think the alethas compare to those newer speakers? There a lot of newer speakers (cheaper and more expensive) that have came out since dunlavy out of business. They use more sophiscated parts and have more sophiscated designs!! Some of them even have a very reasonable price tag and received good/ great review by stereophile mags.
Most of my hi-end friends, they talk about Revels, B&Ws, Totems, Triangles, VR, etc...
I own the Alethas, but had no luxurious to audition any other speakers (only some, but just the low-ends, as in my city in Indoensia, the dealers usually don't have those expensive speakers in stock). So, I am not very sure whether the Alethas are for the keep or I should upgrade/ change.
Thanks
Regards
Tjandra |
I can't comment on the Dunlavy SC-IVa's since I've only heard them in the show room, but I can certainly comment on the Alethas, which I own and have lived with for a couple of years and known intimately.
I have never heard the "midrange coloration" you mention - it has one of the clearest and pursest midranges that I have ever heard, and I listened to a lot of speakers over the years. The truth of timbre and purity of the midrange allows voices and instruments to sound amazingly real. Several friends that have listened to my system have had similar reactions i.e., this is spooky real.
In terms of imaging the speakers just dissappear in a deep and wide soundstage - the width far exceeds the boundaries of the speaker in my room. But I do currently have a dedicated room for them that I may not have the luxury of in the near future.
I'm not in the least denying what you heard - I just wanted to present another side to this picture. I've heard all three of the other speakers you mention and all are excellent. However, none of them had me remotely wanting to rush out and upgrade my Dunlavy Alethas. Now on the other hand the Avantgarde Duo's I recently heard, did have a very profound effect on me, but unfortunately the size of these things makes them non-feasible for me. |
Sure, sorry for the delay...busy! Everything I've had since has lacked the honky midrange coloration of the Dunlavy's i.e..B&W 801N's, Wilson Watt/Puppy 6's, ML Prodigy's and even my Totem Forests and Winds! At one point during my Dunlavy system I had managed to reduce the coloration quite a bit with a Krell FPB600 mated to an AR LS25MKII and a BAT VK-D5 with MIT Proline connections! Tonal shadings, color and transparency were also less with the Dunlavy's. Imaging was the biggest problem with the massive point source Dunlavy's...nothing beyond the sides and the comb filter effect of their own boxes limited the holography found in most of the other speakers I've owned. |
Dave B and Daytrader; I’ve heard these same comments before, and I’m aware that there are people who do not like the Dunlavy parts quality. I have two comments, first is a price/ performance issue. The Dunlavy IV speaker was Stereophile class A restricted. When the IVa came out the bass extension issue of the IV were solved, but suddenly Stereophile downgraded the speaker to class B full range. Given that it was ¼ of the cost of all other Class A full range speakers there was no way Stereophile could have placed it in class A. My second comment/ question is; for the price, what other speakers did you find that out performed the Dunlavy? Please describe how the sound changed when you replaced the Dunlavy. |
I owned 4A's for 5+ yrs and couldn't agree more. To whom it may concern; I hope this qualifies as a positive contribution! |
