Call Steve Aug at the Cable Company they are carrying this line of fuse's |
Stehno,
I have 4 fuses on my 125; one 6.3A per channel (rail fuses) and two 2A which are each in the signal path of both channels. I live in a very dry climate though, and have blown all 4 fuses on several occasions. I'm moving to Kansas in July, though, so maybe I'll fork out the $100 for 4 more. :)
Sirspeedy, I purchased my HiFi Tuning fuse from the guys at The Cable Company as well. http://www.fatwyre.com/
Good luck!
Howard |
I note the Isoclean only come in slow-blow "for best quality sound." I don't know about you guys, but I'm not willing to take the chance of my amp getting blown because I was an idiot and used a slow-blow fuse in a spot the manufacturer designed to be a fast-blow fuse to protect the circuits on either side.
My AC fuse is a slow-blow though; maybe I'll try the Isoclean and see. Might be too much of a good thing in my system. |
Aggielaw, so you're moving from a very dry climate to Kansas? This should be good. :)
My family and I recently moved from Leawood, KS to Oregon. For 3 months of the year, the heat and humidity in Kansas is literally as bad as summertime in Orlando, FL.
But suprisingly (and aside from the humidity) KS was a fantastic place to live. My wife, who grew up in Rancho Palos Verdes, CA aka the Beverly Hills of the west side, cried when we moved from Kansas.
BTW, you should experience lightning and thunderstorms that will scare the cheese out of you. So you better buy 8 fuses. :) During the stormy months, I unplugged all equipment when I wasn't listening.
Anyway I hope you enjoy KS as much as we did. We'd go back in a heartbeat.
-John |
I received two of these yesterday from The Cable Company for my SET monoblocks (845 output tubes), and unless I'm seriously deluding myself, the damn things really work! I'm buying more for my linestage and phonostage. Dave |
HiFi-Tuning Fuses are available from: Xtreme Cables
http://www.xtremecables.com/products.php?cat=33
The Cable Company
http://www.fatwyre.com/FATWYRE/fatwyre/featuredprods.html
Parts Connexion
http://www.partsconnexion.com/Index/hi-fi_tuning.html
I hope this helps...
Brian Kyle
949-488-7662 |
What the heck!I ordered them.
Thanks! |
John,
Interesting! I went househunting out there a couple weeks ago and drove from Kansas City to the Manhattan area, where I bought a house. I was very surprised at the temperated weather (which I know won't last long) and the beautiful rolling terrain. The people were very friendly across the board, too. My wife and I grew up in and near Houston, Texas, so we're well-prepared for the muggy summers. :)
The monsoons and their corresponding brownouts and lightning storms here in the high desert caused me to buy an APC S10 last summer, but I will continue to unplug when those buggers hit in Kansas - thanks for the tip!
I've only been to Portland in Oregon, but I hear the entire state is just gorgeous. I'll bet you guys are really enjoying it there.
Howard |
Well,heard the fuses(HI FI Tuning),before and after,in a friend's exact pre/phonostage as mine.Definitely a clearly audible improvement!!
I would liken it,almost exactly,to moving up to a superior set of tubes!
Best! |
I agree, Sir Speedy, and have now spent $150 on the damn things. I need a keeper :-) |
I bought an Isoclean fuse to compare against the HiFi Tuning fuse. I seriously doubted there would be any difference.
Last night I sat down and spent three hours listening to several tracks twice - first time with one fuse in, second time with the other. I jotted down a few notes from time to time. Can you guess the results?
That's right - the HiFi Tuning fuse won almost across the board. For jazz and classical I preferred the HiFi Tuning fuse because everything seemed cleaner, airier, and just more "real." The Isoclean fuse had more-defined imaging, but I felt some wind instruments, chiefly alto and tenor sax, sounded ever-so-slightly colored. The only place I might have preferred the Isoclean was with hard rock.
Just my two cents, but I thought my experience was interesting in light of this thread.
As an aside, there's a thread on audiocircle where some folks in Denver recently tested various fuses, and found a silver-plated fuse that they liked better than the HiFi Tuning fuse. You can find the thread here: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=28274
Howard |
Aggielaw -- Q: Which direction were the arrows on the Isocleans pointing when you placed them in the fuse holders?... just curious? |
Are the HiFi fuses not directional? I would be interested in the German silver fuses, but was shocked to learn they are merely silver plated. Why doesn't someone make solid silver fuses where the ac would pass through quality wire, or does it make no difference at 60 Hz 120 volts? |
No, the HiFi fuses are not directionalliy. As to your other question, I don't supposed we should expect solid silver for a mere 30 bucks per fuse. :-) |
Geoff,
Great question. I suppose I should flip the fuse around to see if I hear a difference. (I can't believe I actually just wrote that. Then again, I didn't believe the fuses would make any difference in the first place.) The info sheet that comes with the Isoclean fuse claims it is "directional" but doesn't really say which way to point it. I assume you point it to run with the current, but considering the location of the fuse in my amp (in a slide-out "pocket" directly below the power cord receptacle) I don't know which way the current runs at that point.
For grins, I'll try the fuse in each directions tonight and report back tomorrow.
Interestingly, the manufacturer of the HiFi Tuning Fuse states their fuse is *not* directional. |
Aggielaw, I have Isoclean fuses with arrow facing towards the component in the fuse holder. This seems to be the correct direction. Reversing the direction of any or all fuses makes the sound noticeably overly bright. Hope this helps. GK |
Aggielaw, in all my experience with such fuse holders the arrow should go from left to right when you are looking at the fuseholder.
I teach at Texas A&M and hear Aggie this and Aggie that all day. Where did you get this moniker? |
Tbg,
Thanks for the tip on the fuse. We had an unexpected visitor tonight, which precluded me from testing the fuse. I'll run the test tomorrow night, though.
I went to South Texas College of Law in Houston for the short period of time it was known as the "Texas A&M Law Center."
It's ironic that the law school (and TAMU) lost in litigation over the affiliation/absorption, because STCL is ranked #1 in the nation for producing trial attorneys . :|
Hmmm.. I didn't know there were audiophiles in College Station. I'm glad to hear that! My wife and I still have friends there, and when we visit again I'll offer to take you to lunch to talk about our hobby. :)
Howard |
Geoffkait, you might want to open up the top lid of your components and trace the power wire to verify the direction of power in the fuse holder. In my previous components all externally accessible fuse holders had the power wired so that a properly installed IsoClean fuse arrow was pointing out the back.
The opposite of my assumption.
Now if only somebody would build a gold-plated cryo-treated fuse holder.
-IMO |
What direction does AC current flow anyway? I think that it reverses its flow 60 times a second, so directionality of fuses seems silly as a concept, but then, so does the whole fuse thing!
Bob P. |
The listening test will verify the proper direction.
With any fuse, even one that is 10 years old.
"In all my experience with such fuse holders the arrow should go from left to right when you are looking at the fuseholder. " - that all depends on whether you're looking at the fuseholder from the right side or the left side :-)
GK |
Bob, if you check a fuse holder with no fuse in and with the ac disconnected, a meter will show continuity between the hot blade of the ac and one side of the fuse holder. Only with the switch and amp on will you have continuity between the other side of the fuse and the ac blade.
This is one of those many instances where I think science tells us little but where there is a substantial sonic benefit. IsoClean strongly believes in keeping track of direction. I doubt also whether the HiFi fuses are not directional. I have always heard a difference in tube direction since Lloyd Walker argued that I should try it. With IsoClean the proper direction is night and day.
Howard, do give me a call when you are in town.
I am a political science professor and was on the faculty senate at the time that STCL and TAMU tried to bridge the gap between a private law college and a state university. STCL wanted an influx of pre-law students primarily from my department, and TAMU wanted a law school. Ultimately, I don't think it matters much that this failed. We have 1300 majors and about 25-30 go on to law school. It was no big deal for us. |
TBG, just because there is "continuity", as you put it, doesn't imply that the current flows in only one direction. AC current, by definition, alternates in its direction and voltage, 60 times a second in North America and 50 times a second in most of the rest of the world.
Now fuses installed on the DC voltage rails might have directionality, but I have my doubts, no matter what the fuse dealers say.
With respect, Bob P. |
Bob, I am only identifying the hot wire to the transformers.
All that I can say is that I have repeatedly heard the impact of the proper direction for fuses. IsoClean marks theirs, and I have always found they are right. Only you can be the judge, of course. Try switching the direction of the fuse in your line stage and see what you hear.
As far as I know only IsoClean claims fuse directionality, but many have found it on other fuses. |
I don't think anybody mentioned the Furutech fuses which I just stumbled across. These come with a pure silver conductor, rodium plating, and cryo-treated to boot!
I've owned the excellent IsoClean fuses, I'd like to try the hifi.com fuses, but I think I'd have to go with these next.
http://www.furutech.com/produ_2.asp?ProdNo=239
-IMO |
Stehno, damn you! I had just dismissed the Hifi fuses given the comments in the review I posted. These sound like exactly what I have sought. Do you know what they cost? |
and where you can get them? |
I just happened to come across them as I'm in the process of applying for dealership status with Furutech. It appears that the retail price is $60 each but I'd have to verify.
I initially choked just a bit at the $25 price of the IsoCleans but considering the build quality and materials of these fuses along with the cryo-treatment and potential for performance gains (when compared to other upgrades), it doesn't seem so bad.
-IMO |
Of course, the copper vs silver fuse debate is inevitable. |
I just talked with a friend who received a pair to compare with the IsoCleans in his amps. After breaking in the Furutechs for several day, he went back to the IsoCleans and greatly preferred them.
I was going to try a pair anyway, but at $60@ I will pass. |
Bob P,
I can't seem to locate any technical explanations for Isoclean's fuses, other than better materials, audible claims, reviews, and distributor sites. Nothing to explain the how/why directional aspect with regards to AC, DC, or frequency applications.
Anyone with factual explanations (construction or theory), or sites bearing the same?
|
Yes, the Furutech fuses are indeed $60 each. |
Metro04, I had a lengthy discussion with the IsoClean people at the last CES. Other than telling me that the conductor was not silver or gold, they would only say that many engineering concerns went into their design. When I mentioned my interest in the silver conductor fuses from Germany, they merely said they would not rival the IsoClean.
I don't think we know much about any fuses' constructions. We know the Furutechs are rhodium plated and have a silver conductor. I know the IsoCleans are gold plated. That is all I have learned about these fuses. But I do know the IsoCleans work if they are put in the right direction! |
Tbg,
Isoclean's responses are typical of most manufacturers pertaining to their engineering, vs competitor's. No real rocket science to standard fuse construction, so I'm baffled as to how/why theirs can make a difference. I'm no newbee to electronics, so this is quite intriguing.
Still open for info if anybody knows anything, or has done measurements, etc.
|
Here's the info I received from Furutech's USA office (they have no US distributor yet):
Dear Howard,
Thank you for your interest in Furutech product.
Our suggested retail price for Furutech Fuse 6.3A 30mm is $50.00 / piece.
Currently we do not have any more stock for it, if you are interested to place an order, we will order it from our Tokyo office.
Look forward to your reply.
Regards,
Patti
Alpha Design Labs Inc.
www.furutech.com
Tel: 626-571-5333 |
Metro04, I know a fuse is a simple design, but I also know bypassing them greatly improves the sound. The issue is how to not bypass them and get great sound. I don't think that is easy to do. I would suspect that materials would be the crucial problem and I would presume that contacts are another. Why no one solders in the simple fuse surprises me. I can also understand why after investing R&D money they might not want to reveal it. |
Tbg,
Write back if you run accross an explanation during your reading adventures. With such R&D investment, one would expect patents of some sort (international), and maybe there are. Then again, maybe there's nothing involved, and wouldn't be past me to purchase one for lab research benefits (including internals). Being amongst many fellow skeptics, this could be beneficial.
Now, understandably, there are concerns for fuseholder contacts as well. But, as with all AC power applications, there are several wiring and plug connections from/and within the breaker box to keep in mind, besides focussing on fuse and connection quality which probably happens quite often. (IMHO)
I'll look into it. |
Interesting, Aggie. I spoke with Patti yesterday to confirm the $60 price on my price sheet. |
Metro04, I do know of several manufacturers who rightfully I think choose to not pursue patents as they are too easily bypasses by slight changes.
I can understand skepticism but I don't understand not trying something so cheap. I grant that trying things often does not prove satisfying as I experienced with the ERS paper and Bibbie filters. But I am not about to buy all four of the audio quality fuses to see which is best.
By the way, I value your reasoned skepticism as opposed to the "I don't understand this, therefore it is a scam" skepticism. I think people run a continuum from not trying anything to trying even the wildest tweaks. I suspect that I am more toward the latter. |
Tbg,
From the many years of observation, it's a no-win situation for anybody admitting not to hear differences. I admit being from the camp that requires much more than claims and personal opinions, since no one seems to agree upon standard testing methods, other than their own (non-calibrated) ears. I just need to know what, or why I'm not hearing something, and that I'm not buying snake-oil. Right?
|
Metro04, snake oil is pejorative. You don't know that it is unworthy. You won't try it unless you understand it. Fine. |
Stehno,
I inquired about the 5x20mm fuses specifically; maybe your price sheet reflects a 1.25" fuse. That's about the only explanation I can come up with. |
Aggie, my price sheet shows one line item for all Furutech fuses at $60 each which I confirmed with the same Patti as mentioned above.
BTW, what type of law do you specialize in? |
Stehno,
I'm curretnly a military attorney specializing (as best you can in the military) in criminal law. Before getting called to active duty I practiced commercial and tort litigation in Houston.
That sure is strange about the fuse; maybe the $50 is a typo.
While I'm on vacation for the next 30 days or so, I'm sending my Isoclean and HiFi Tuning fuses to Steve McCormack so he can play with them in his amps. It will be interesting to get his thoughts when he's done. :)
Howard |
For those interested, Steve listened to both the Hi-Fi Tuning and IsoClean fuses in his home system. I don't feel at liberty to publish what he sent me, but he may be willing to share his thoughts with owners of his equipment if you call or email him.
Primarily because the price was right, I special ordered some silver-plated fuses from Wayne at Bolder Audio. These were universally well-regarded (and considered superior to both the aforementioned fuses by many) at a recent audio get-together in Denver. I'll post my thoughts when I get a chance to listen to them, which should be in about a week. |
Aggielaw, is that Boulder Audio or Bolder Audio? Do they make the fuses? What does universally well-regarded mean? Thanks. |
Aggielaw, thanks for the tip. I have the DNA-500 and I believe there are 8 fuses inside, so I will be very interested to hear what Steve has to say before I spend over $200 on fuses to "improve" the sound of an already excellent sounding amp. |
Mitch2, I used to own the DNA-2 Rev A amp and shortly before I sold it, I replaced the internal fuses (2 on each rail) with four Isoclean.
It took about 48 hours of burn-in and after that the improvements were about equal to replacing standard wall receptacles/outlets with cryo-treated Oyaide outlets. Not identical improvements but the percentage improvements were about the same.
More detailed, lowered noise-floor, and a richer/warmer overall presentation. It was well worth the $25 x 4 improvement.
Just don't forget to account for them in your price should you ever sell the amp. I forgot.
-IMO |
Hifi tuning fuses ,anyone saying that these fuses are not a sonic improvement either their equipment is to cheap
or they are deaf , the bit about Audio research saying it was not worth it ,is nuts too cheap sounds more like it .
I put these against the Iso clean and I found the iso clean a little more open on top , with the Hfi tuning a little richer throughthe mids and a slightly fatter bottom.
Picking hairs here, also the Quicksilver gold conducter treatment on the fuses
It was another level again ,as with all the Rca ,and power leads 2 no brainer Tweaks ! |
"the HiFi Tuning fuse won almost across the board...... The only place I might have preferred the Isoclean was with hard rock."
I was comparing Isoclean to another audio grade fuse and have the same conclusion. Not impressed.
Another audio grade fuse to look for is the AHP fuse from Germany which recently has a North American distributor. Heard good things about these from ears I trust. You can get more information in the August newsletter in PS audio website. |
