Removing spikes... Now my speakers sing

georgehifi
Thank you for your explanations 1and 2

Note that if you live in a large (or even medium sized) tent in a desert someplace, the spikes can go right through a rug into sand and possibly fall over into a hookah...nobody needs that...

@labtec  Ther last paragraph in your post would, if employed with most floor standing speakers, raise the tweeters much too high relative to the listening seat going against the speaker manufacturers recommendations, throwing the sound out of balance.

@hifiman5 The sand box I'm referring to is actually almost identical to the the height of spikes.  Bright Star audio made these sand boxes (mainly for equipment), but could be used for speakers too.  You don't need the spikes, so it's not like doubling up on the height. You mainly have to customize them for your speakers since every speaker is different size nowadays.  Thus, you can make them any height you want.

Also remember, that even if you double the height or it's 1-2 inches different than a spike, it's not any different than other things you have to manage if your speakers are super sensitive by a couple inches to dispersion.  Chairs/couches/etc aren't all at the same height.  The cushions aren't the same tension. People aren't the same weight and height.  Some people slouch when seated and others don't.  Thus, the size of the custom sand base you make is virtually immaterial to other things if you have speakers with very sensitive/poor dispersion.  As long as you don't do anything crazy with the height of your custom sand base, you should be fine.

It's also a good time to say that I only use large line source ribbon/planar speakers (Wisdom Audio, Maggies, etc). I'm not a big fan of any point source loudspeakers that have all these hyper sensitive dispersion issues, but that's a discussion for another topic and for more reasons than just dispersion characteristics.

Or, hang the speakers and the listening couch/chair from the ceiling and take the floor completely out of the equation. Problem solved. 

WOW! Geoff actually can deviate from making witty, snide, insulting remarks to imparting meaningful, helpful information....Way to go Geoff!

Bite me. 

@labtec   I stand corrected!  I forgot that you were not using the spikes. I actually have a Bright Star sandbox on top of my Target amp stand with my amplifier on top of the Bright Star.

Your point about chairs, listeners heights varying is, of course, quite correct.  As a Vandersteen owner I am perhaps over sensitive to the height issue as Vandy's have to be pitched just right according to listener's ear height for the treble and imaging to lock in.

😋Anyone want to bite Geoff?😋

 +1 hifiman5

I've had the Isoacoustic Gaia II for a couple of weeks, but inconclusive as to whether bass is tightened or attenuated.  They restrict box movement to front-to-back, but couldn't that result in the bass cone not pushing against a solid plane? That is, the cabinet moves back when the cone moves forward, reducing the absolute throw and transient speed of the cone?  The mids do seem a little clearer.  I'm on a suspended wood floor, so would a rubbery foot be worth trying?

Whether you prefer spikes or not it is indisputable that their use increases the amount of resonance measured in the baffle.

As usual it boils down to where you want to put those unavoidable resonances. Nowadays we are seeing a greater awareness of these issues in the design of loudspeakers and microphones.

Suspended mic's in my experience sound pretty, pretty good. Certainly on speech.

It depends on the speakers, I liked them on Dynaudio confidence, on my ESL 63's a big no go, just made things brighter, same for my OB speakers, yes they sound cleaner, but you can lose the meat and dynamics in the midrange, while when spiking the highs and lows sick out better, but that is not always right. In this hobby they are no always a set rule for many things, you learn as you go is to stay open-minded and try things and see how it works out in your system. Live music does not sound like many spiked speaker systems I hear, take the blinders off, and find out what is best for your speakers. 

@phillyb ,

According to this interesting research conducted on behalf of IsoAcoustics:


"There are 3 things to think about in regards to speaker isolation.

1. Is the speaker exciting the supporting surfaces creating dissonant sounds?

2. Are structure borne noises creating anomalies within the listening area and disturbing your neighbors?

3. Is the interaction between the supporting surface and the base of the speaker causing the speaker energy to reflect internally and resulting in smear?"

------


Therefore it does matter where you place your speakers as well as what you stand them on, floorboards, concrete, carpet, metal stands etc.

It also further matters how your speakers make contact with this support. This is where the differences between spikes and more compliant methods of contact can be found.

You can see from fig 6 in the link given below that the main differences in isolation between spikes and compliant support are found between 20Hz and 750Hz.

This should result in a cleaner, clearer bass that has less impact upon the midrange.

As you say, the results will depend upon individual speakers and their interactions with their surroundings.

In my case, with every speaker I’ve tried (from large Tannoy DCs to portable plastic radios) greater compliance has always been preferred.

It still doesn't mean that some speakers might not benefit from extra resonances in some situations, but attempts to isolate by compliance do seem to have become more widely adopted the audio industry in recent years. Many manufacturers are now offering an alternative to spikes.

Some, like the Funk Firm are now even offering products to isolate the cartridge from the tonearm/headshell!

This is quite a turnaround from the years when Linn were routinely recommending headshell warping levels of tightness between cartridge and the unfortunate headshell in question.

Quite revolutionary stuff that threatens to turn upside down our existing belief of how cartridges and tonearms work best.

https://isoacoustics.com/isoacoustics-speaker-isolation-technology/