Removable headshells 101

Dear Downunder: +++++ " I have no idea how someone can make decisions on the full merits of a cartridge after using it for 4 or 5 choice cuts or several days. " +++++

agree, me either!.

+++++ " I have to live with a cartridge for a long period of time to appreciate all its strengths and weaknesses. " +++++

the " all " word is the key on the whole subject. I already explained to you and other people the why and how's about but here we go again:

if you are trained ( in deep and through a learning process ) say as a Formula One driver ( like Alonso or Shumacher ) when you move the switch on car " key " in that very first moment you know 40% of that car and after one-two turns to the circuit race you know other 55% of the car's characteristics.
The " full and all strengths and weknesses " certainly will take you a little more: maybe two or three or four full races.

Well, my target when I give an opinion on MM/MI cartridges is to help other interested people , if overall, one or the other cartridge could be a good alternative.

Now, due that the whole MM/MI cartridge subject is " new " for many of us there are out there a lot of cartridges ( vintage. ) that we can buy but how can we make a choice? what to buy ? .

I think that always help to make those cartridge choices at least to have, if not a full precise idea, an " idea " about and that was and is my role in that thread that over the years added great contributors that with their opinions on the same subject already helped all of us that are " discovering " the MM/MI analog source alternative and that's all.

Yes, I'm trained in deep on purpose to do that with a good average % of sucess and no I don't heard only " 4-5 choice cuts " because if you think this then is a totally misunderstood.

I receive over 10+ email every day asking for MM/MI cartridge set up and asking for advise on that MM/MI ( vintage and today ) cartridges and all these daily emails comes from people that never posted in that MM/MI thread.

I don't know you but my main targets in this forum and in every single thread is to learn and try to help other people when I can. The 95% of my posts are experiences that I share with you/other people.

My contribution and contributions of all the people should be a real contribution: I mean that can help some one.
Like in any forum we are free to " take " what we like and what did not left alone.

In the other side we all are free to: just don't read " this or that " post or " those threads ".

Anyway, always a pleasure to talk with you.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Nick_sr: +++++ " In regards to the head shell leads issue, I just did away with them completely. " +++++

yes the best headshell leads are no headshell leads. Not only you but many other persons out there ( including me ) already taked that alternative that between other things make " life more easy ".

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Dertonarm: It is not that much: only one hole distance. For the ADC 25 or 20SS the Technihard headshell is out of question.

Right now I'm usin the 13 one with my MS LF-7 and I used a 18 one with the DL-103 LOMC cartridge where in both cases works just fine.

Maybe I have an advantage over you and some other people: I own a " ton " of different headshells that makes me things easy and where I learned that are better options that those Technihard AT headshells, I'm not saying are bad ones but only that are not the best " user friendly " items.

I have a lot of luck with many of the other AT headshell models. In the other side not always we can use a 18grs headshell weight.

Regards and enjoy the music,
raul.

Dear Nandric: the reference to Plato and Aristotle was intended to mark a contrast with those in a pluralistic democracy who deny that there’s a legitimate perspective from which to condemn an individual’s personal ends. That’s not to say there are no illegitimate ends, but we can draw the distinction (see: harm principle) without getting into the nitty gritty of an individual’s conception of her own good.

In that light, recall that the epigram is ‘pushpins, poetry: whatever’ and not ‘benevolence, pleonexia, murder: whatever’. Unless you’re comparing owning 100 MM carts and testing 2 carts a day to murder and thievery, there’s no issue here.

Even if my wallet were willing, my personality would never permit me to buy a $3k cartridge. Admittedly that’s one reason I love the MM thread: it comforts the bargain hunter in me, nurturing the idea that I can have 10 quality MM carts for the price of one MC cart. You may charge me with the vice of acquisitiveness, but I would say I love pluralism ;-).

Dear Raul: thanks for the advice. Unfortunately for me, my AT headshell is one of those tiny, short and stubby ones that make little allowance for adjustment. I just tried mounting the Empire on it and I don’t have the required, very, very short, screws. Worse: I have no idea where to get them. My Azden is also out of commission until I figure out how to deal with the universal mount adapter it came with. The adapter covers all but a tiny bit of the cart’s pins and there’s no way for me to get my lead wires onto them. I’ve already destroyed a set of lead wires trying. Is the adapter supposed to have its own pins or are the cart’s pins supposed to stick out through the adapter? I’ve never even seen a p mount cart before this one so I don’t know what’s going on.

On a brighter note, I swapped my Signet freak cart from its AT headshell onto a Sony headshell I had lying about, and it’s clearly better for it. In my ignorance, I had believed that the AT headshell to be just better simpliciter and didn’t even think to try the Sony on it. Hume wins again: pretense to causal knowledge be damned; try everything and see what happens.

Dear Banquo363: Well not easy to get those very short screws for the Empire, I'm lucky because I have hundred of screws and I found it a pair for it but you can mount the Empire in a non-AT headshell and then you can use a " normal " length screws with nuts.

Yes, the headshell wires goes connected to the Azden's adaptor pins and not to the cartridge ones.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Raul, well - over the past 3 decades it were for me only those 4 headshells I mentioned which I used. After 20 years of Orsonic AVs and Clearaudio Stability (which is after all a copycat of the Orsonic) the Technihard 18 was the first headshell coming along in quite some time with a straight and mechanical excellent executed design and a very fair price.
However - I too would like to see rather long slots instead of threaded holes.
When I used MMs and MIs, they were mounted in my Air Tangent, ET 2, STAX-UA90 and Graham - sans headshell.
Cheers,
D.

Hey Folks,

Haven't seen anybody reply to my SME 309 question.

Anybody know if the 309 is a non standard pin/collar headshell?

BTW, is there a name for the standard headshell connection?

Thanks,
Robert

Dear Robob: The 309 has a SME " dedicated/non-standard " removable headshell but that's not the Universal removable headshell like the one SME used in the 3012 and the ones we are named in this thread.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Nandric,

the German magazine "Das Ohr" was published by Klaus Renner from 1982 until Klaus Renner's death in 1991.

DerTonarm wrote some very interesting articles about music for "Das Ohr" (about 6 if I remember correctly). Therefore DerTonarm was associated with the magazine for some time, but "Das Ohr" was not definitely not DerTonarm's magazine.

Regards
Blam!

Dear Blam, It was not my intentions to suggest in any way
that Dertonarm was the owner of this Magazine. We usualy
have no idea who the owner is nor care about. BTW I thought
that reviewers also refer to 'their Magazine' but obviousy
without ownership implication. This was what I meant with
'his Magazine'. I am not the right person to say anything about English grammar but English must also have those 'possesive' expression wich are in no way connected with the ownership. BTW I am a lawyer with specialisation in private law.
Regards,

Your influence is far and deep, Raul. Turns out the previous owner of my Azden removed the adapter's pins based on your recommendation in the mm thread. I ordered a new adapter so I should be able to listen to it next week. Maybe I'll try drilling larger holes in my current adapter so the headshell pins will fit through. Might as well try as it's unusable for me right now.

Mounted the Empire on an Orsonic headshell. Will report some thoughts about it next week.

Dear Nandric,

Thank you for your clarification. And it was not my intention to be rude. I apologize if it seemed so to you.

Greetings
Blam!

[/off topic]

Thanks Raul, I thought that to be true:-)

Dear Banquo363: The best connection for the Azden is " direct connection FASHION ", that's direct to the cartridge pin connectors. For you can do this you have to take off/out the adaptor pin connectors and find headshell leads connectors that could fit those cartridge pin connectors that are so thin.

Anyway, you are in the " road " again.

Regrads and enjoy the music,
Raul.

I don't know how I missed this thread!....

Perhaps the fact that I was not (yet) focused on the headshell side of things.

My switch back to the Revox yesterday highlighted a resonance at 300Hz that I had assumed (wrongly) was a property of the test tracks....

I have a suspicion that the 300Hz resonance (bell curve centered around 250 to 300Hz extending roughly 1 octave each way to around 150Hz and 600Hz - center/peak and width varies a little with cartridge/headshell) is caused by the movement between arm/headshell.

Has anyone done any analysis/work on this?

The Revox 1 piece arm fitted with a p-mount adapter, shows the same effect but with around half the amplitude (1db as opposed to 2db on the JVC S-Arm).

Do any specific headshells reduce/control this better than others?

What about the two pin headshells? (one above, one below - like the Orsonic AV-1)

I also have a couple of AT headshells for which I need those very short screws.... anyone out there have some ideas as to where one might find some?

Although I have a wide variety of headshells now - primarily focused on lightweight models, as most of my cartridges are high compliance - I have normally chosen a headshell for a cartridge based on rigidity and mass considerations - without experimenting with differing headshells. It appears I may need to take my experimentation down the headshell path as well.

Bye for now

David

Hi David,
I would hesitate before jumping in on an Orsonic headshell.
Sure.....they look sexy but on complex demanding material, it was distorting a treat.
I swear I could actually see the shell convulsing whilst it struggled against the cartridge's demands.
And that wasn't even with low-compliance cantilevers!!
If you haven't tried some of the wood headshells out there, you may be in for an experience? :^)
Cheers
Henry

Regards, Dlaloum:
Company Name: Orsonic
Company Status: Dissolved
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Incorporation Date: 17/05/1996
Dissolution Date: 01/05/2007

Nearly five years after dissolution, supplys of the AV headshells seem to be holding out well.

Halcro "suggested" the Yamamoto ebony HS to me and I've been pleased with it. The Orto. LS-8000 (Japaneese Oak) is another I've thought to have a positive influence. YMMV. Thanks, Henry.

Peace,

Greetings Professor,
Glad that you find the Yamamoto Ebony satisfactory :^)
Do you think the hard-wired headshell leads limit your performance options?
If I did not know you better......I would say that I detect a slight cynicism in your comments on Orsonic?
Surely you do not mean to imply that there may be some Chinese copies being sold ex Hong Kong :^)
Cheers
Henry

Thanks guys,

I have been eyeing off some of the wooden HS's but have held off as they are a bit pricey....
I have some experiments to do with damping the headshell join.... -replacing the washer with a bit of plasticine - which will mold itself into the join and form a CLD layer.

The other thing I need to try is wrapping the tonearm.

I just cannot imagine that this particular anomaly would be affected by a wooden HS. - My gut feeling being that the Wood would be good for damping some of the higher frequency grunge.... (and I will stick with that until I can justify the expense of a wooden HS or two to myself...)

Also good to get some trusted feedback on the Orsonic headshells...

bye for now

David

Hi all, I am also informed that those Orsonics are made in
China. There is however ,say, 'similar' German version:
Clearaudio Aluminum and Titanium. I own Titanium but never
used the thing. Anyway very nice wire are included in the price:
200 Euro. Anyone try those?

Regards,

I'm looking to upgrade my headshell leads to silver wire. Anyone have recommendations? Are the Van den Hul leads that use MCS 150m good? What about MCS 300?

Regards, Halcro: On the Orsonic, prices seem to have leveled out, perhaps becoming even more affordable. Hmmm. As to the Yamamoto ebony HS, it is a wonderful match for the Signet TK7lca, as you suggested. I also find the Orto. LS-8000 Japaneese oak HS does an excellent job on cleaning up the somewhat enthusiastic bass evidenced by my TK7SU. This model has a sturdy/nonresoant brass fingerlift and is of good quality construction.

Dlaoulm: Hi, David. I'm working on a NOS Acutex LPM 415 at this time, have gone through an ADC mag. 6.5 gm headshell, Jeweltone 9.5gm, Sumiko 12gm & Yamamoto 8.5gm boxwood. This cart is extremly detailed, almost excessively so. The boxwood HS encourages a neutrality in playback that MAY have a foundation in the elimination of headshell ringing. Boundary resonance is perhaps another factor. The debate is ongoing as to wether the TA should be enabled to serve as a "sink" for draining resonance away from the cart or if these should be isolated or controled before leaving the pickup. No empirical data to support either camp here, would this be something you'd be interested in exploring? One (or several) of the wooded HS's might be a welcome addition to anyone's resources. Henry, thanks again for your encouragement.

Peace,

Nandric, what is your source that the Orsonics now being sold are made in China? I recently purchased a "NOS" AV-101 and if it is a gray market copy, someone did a pretty good job. The fit and finish are high quality. Also, the standard box is marked MADE IN JAPAN. If I can find a friend locally who owns one old enough to be confident it is an original, it would be interesting to compare mine to see if we can find any differences.

I bought the Orsonic because I needed a headshell with a little more mass and I thought it had a long-standing reputation for quality. Henry's observations seem to be contrary to other users over the years. Unfortunately the arm I will use is not mounted yet so I've not had the chance to try my Orsonic.

Timeltel ... TA?

Also the use of wood as a damping/vibration modification material is interesting.
I have some mpingo wood shims I had made up for the Revox (where cartridge mounting requires shims for adjustment)

They are usually sold/advertised as "cartridge dampers"...

I have to admit to not having experimented with these other than using them as shims on the Revox (where they do an excellent job)

Wood has a couple of interesting properties:
Different speed of sound along grain vs across grain
This results in quite complex reflection/refraction patterns of vibration movement - with the potential for frequencies being altered/spread (refraction) resulting in damping...
Add to that the shear influences at the material boundaries.

The potential may indeed be there - but like any of these vibration related issues, the environment is so complex as to make it intractable other than as a black art. (frustrating that!)

bye for now

David

Pryso - yes interesting isn't it, Henry's comments amount to "this emperor has no clothes" :)

Dear pryso/Dlaloum: I totally agree with Halcro on the Orsonic hadshells ( I owned all the different original models. ) that IMHO are just a crap of headshell full of distortions.

Of course there are people that loves those distortions because IMHO they don't know/be aware that part of what they are hearing through this headshell in reality is added distortion.

This Orsonic headshell is one more myth in the analog audio that sellers spread the " rumor " that was a " great one " with out IMHO any precise/clear evidence and with out any other " help " ( for we customers. ) that makes easy money.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Hi Pryso, This is the problem of the abundance of information: I forget my 'source'. Anyway that is way I bought Clearaudio Titanium. An obvious copy of Orsonic.
But if Raul's and Halcro's objections also apply to Clearaudio I have obviously lost more money then those who have bought the Orsonic. Being cautious is alas not sufficient.

Regards,

Thinking further on this, it seems to me that any headshell with such poor structural integrity that one could "actually see the shell convulsing", then it could be twisted (albeit slightly) by hand as well. I mean, how much energy does the stylus/cantilever generate as it traces the groove?

The Orsonic I purchased appears to be very rigid, at least to attempts to twist it by hand.

Now I'm not suggesting that Henry and Raul are wrong about the lack of good sonic qualities. But I am inclined to try it for myself before discarding it -- and yes Raul, with a few different cartridges to see if I find a match.

Pryso,
The forces transferred into the headshell can be large on a microscopic level 'if' they allowed to be magnified by poor structural design and/or rigidity.
If you examine the design o the Orsonic headshell you will see that the bulk of the aluminium structure is elevated above the pin socket which connects to the headshell.
This creates a 'lever arm' for a bending moment and the larger the lever arm.....the greater the bending moment proportional to the square of the lever arm.
The connection of this headshell to the socket itself on the Orsonic (or the copies)......is weak and poorly designed.
If you fix your Orsonic onto the tonearm......try holding the tonearm steady and whilst gripping the headshell at its extreme end......try twisting it back and forward.
This should illuminate the problem :^(

Wood VS the rest,..tests done by Reed tonearms in the research section of their web site have illustrations of acoustic vibration traveling through a table you may find helpful.

Orsonic, there seems to be an endless supply of this rare and short lived brand coming from somewhere, including a brand new box with it.

Regards, Dlaloum: TA = ToneArm. Vibration analysis is such a complicated branch of physics there may be a few professionals who can understand all of it, you can be assured I'm not one. Perhaps not a "black art" but it is a subject prone to generalizations. Building on your comments and Henry's most recent post, permit me a few?

My rudimentary understanding is that a vibration, emitted from a source point, “propagates” and follows the path of least resistance, somewhat like the ring of waves seen when a rock is tossed into a puddle. When these vibrations meet a border between two surfaces, they split, part reflected back and the rest continuing along the second body. How much goes where depends on the acoustical impedance of these materials.

Resonances are characterized by selection of materials, geometry or various devices attached to this body. These resonances may be reflected, amplified and reflected again until the source of the excitation ceases. Mass, materials, wether hollow or solid, holes, stress, associated materials this body is in contact with, texture or coating of the surface (skin effect) and physical configuration (straight/curve/taper/length) all have a consequence in frequency, amplitude, or transient behaviors. From my layman's perspective (read poorly supported opinion), if I intentionally selected a questionable design it would incorporate a removable headshell, and I did.

All this is so very complicated some simplifications are, for me, a neccessity. There are three means of address or correction available in my limited tool kit: Vibrations can be damped, reduced, or tuned. Selection of headshell material and mass are means of addressing these concerns, the choice of wether to retain the o-ring at the coupling is another. Cartridge isolation is also an influence long recognized. I'm reminded of the dimpled triangular alu. plate Grado offered as an option in the late '70's. There are some who are now exploring hard-points between the cartridge and headshell, "tip-toes" for your cart.

Although some of the above statements are probably accurate, I hope you'll correct me where wrong. None the less, a trial and error approach still seems sensible. Was it Voltaire who said, IIRC, "Best" is the enemy of "Better"?

Peace,

Well my experiments with resonance damping on arm & headshell have failed miserably...

Not because it doesn't work, but because my current test track/measurement method has accuracy that is around +/- 0.25db....

That results in variations of up to 0.5db between two readings of the same setup....

My gut feeling looking at the plotted results is that I can see a shift, but it is small (less than 0.5db) and not demonstrably repeatable...

Bye for now

David

I'd really like to revitalize this thread (minus the verbose theories) and share experiences to see if ant predictable combinations become clear.
I will confine my comments to my Sumiko Premier MMT with Cards rewire. I had been researching a possible replacement arm for my Oracle Alex MK III; but I am abandoning that for now, as the only affordable options seem to involve fixed headshells. So I'm looking to tweak the Sumiko. If anyone knows of any good tweak for the MMT, feel free to share.

The cartridges/headshell I use:
Hana SL/Sumiko with Cardas Rhoduim wires the rubber collar washer is lost. 19.26 g/lowish? compliance
I've ordered a Yammamoto HS-4 (carbon) intended for this one because I just can't leave well enough alone and I think I thought I may have heard something I slightly didn't like on one LP the other night.

Denon DL-301 II/LP gear Supreme 18.52 g/22 uN
Dynavector 10X3/TT-N 19.63 g/12 uN (I use damping)
Shure V15 RS SAS/Ortofon SH-4 16.24 g/25 uN and Stabilizer

I listened to the Shure, Hana, and Dynvector with and without collar washers today. No earthshaking differences; I think I prefer the Hana without and the Shure with. The Dyno sounded the same.

As I said, I plan on mating the HS-4, which is about 0.7 g lighter than the Sumiko, with the Hana.
I am thinking I'll move the Dyno to the Sumiko to lighten the load there. But maybe the DL-301.....?

Regarding leads, I am not sure I buy the idea of silver or rhodium having much effect unless the entire arm is wired the same way. Kind of seems like a 4" pipe connected to a 2" one. The 2" controls the flow rate. That being said, I'll probably try switching the Cardas leads to the HS-4 if I haven't bent a cantilever by that point.

Comments? Advice? Similar experiences?

Thanks for re-joining, @nandric. Your expertise is always appreciated. Are your tonearms wired with silver? What do you mean by "fast headshells"?

Interesting. Do you have a favorite arm, or is it basically horses for courses? 

In another thread, Halcro talks about pairing plastic bodied carts with metal headshells and metal bodied carts with wooden ones.

Then there's this blog http://zero-distortion.org/micro_seiki_8000_mkii_koetsu_colibri_thoress_airtight/   that talks about matching a Koetsu and a VDHul with headshells and other tweaks to make them sound more similar. This is continued on a What's Best thread linked in the blog post.

Based on that, I ordered a Jelco HS-30 magnesium/rosewood/brass headshell that looks like the original Koetsu headshell to try with my Onyx and Rosewood.