I’m entertaining the idea of purchasing a reel to reel to record my albums on and also use to possibly soften the digital age a bit. Does anyone know where or if NEW blank tapes can be purchased? Are there any thoughts on a resurgence of R2R and if blank media will become more easily accessible?
That's the problem, when you hear something which is much better it is hard to go back to your usual sound. It is the biggest reason why I listen to computer with headphones only. Computer cannot compete with my all analog main system. Well, if you get $15k streamer and $20k dac it might approach but still analog is analog.
The quality I speak of, would be even more pronounced in a reel that
used 1 inch or 1/2 inch tape. Is there anyone qualified to speak on
this issue?
2-track 1/2" tape at 15 inches is amazing. But be forewarned- you won't want to listen to 1/4" tape after that... 1/2" 2-channel is a common mastering format.
I've been going back and forth between TT and reel today, and discovered something no one else has mentioned. This is specifically in reference to 2 track, not 1/4 track; that's because the head is wider.
When comparing tape sources: cassette deck, 1/4 track, and 1/2 track; note the different size tape heads. These heads have different qualities that I call "forcefulness" for lack of any other term. Why this "fact" has not been noted and given a name is beyond me, but I will describe it's effects on audio. The largest, the 2 track heads create a "forcefulness" in the audio that might be akin to a more powerful amp, because it makes the speakers appear to be larger.
This more forceful sound also corrects "room anomalies". As I was going back and forth between the reel and the turntable, I had to change the preamp for the turntable. Inna and I have the same problem; one channel sounds louder than the other "from the listening chair". No; one channel is not louder than the other, it just sounds that way because of the room. If you have twin volume controls, one has to be turned up in order to compensate for this.
The "forcefulness" of the 2 track reel audio, overcame this "anomaly". When I went back to the turntable, I had to turn the left channel up in order to center the sound stage.
The quality I speak of, would be even more pronounced in a reel that used 1 inch or 1/2 inch tape. Is there anyone qualified to speak on this issue?
Thank you for your thoughts on recording Orpheus10. I believe I will stay with 7.5 ips as well when I make my playlists. 15 ips does use up a lot of tape in a short amount of time. I'm sure the difference in speed will be of little consequence when recording my favorite LP's or HiRez (dsd or flac) music files. Recording a playlist is mainly for convenience and the pure joy I get when I hear my favorite music coming from that big tape deck with the turning 10.5" reels and busy VU meters.
Of course, playing pre-recorded tapes at 15 ips is a different animal. I'd guess that speed is required to experience the full dynamic range of a dupe of a Master/Safety master. I finally mustered the courage to order my first one.. once it arrives and I get a chance for a first listen, I anticipate it will either be a revelation or a bit of a let down. But I prefer to be optimistic as most who have experienced a Master tape dupe played back at 15 ips through a proper r2r deck and a system worthy of same, are duly impressed. btw: The recording I ordered I have on LP and CD, so an a/b/c comparison should be fun and quite revealing. It will help me decided if the high cost of this format is worth the entry fee.
I will report here when i have experienced my first listen.
Happiness is a good working reel to reel recorder.
Recently, I purchased 4 blank 10 inch reels of tape. Initially I planned to record at 7.5 for the sake of economy, but an audiophile demon caused me to set the speed at 15; "The devil made do it".
Recording at 15 IPS causes "hyper awareness, this had better be good"; clean and demagnetize heads, go through record collection, select only the best. As everyone knows, sometime your favorite record has cuts you don't like, be ready to hit the "pause" button.
In regard to the results, no matter how magnificent, the playing time was too short; after I got comfortable, and into the music, it stopped. If only I had a butler to put on another reel; or ten machines in a row, plus remote controls to start another machine as soon as the music stopped on the one before.
Getting the most out of your reel requires dedication to maintenance. Fortunately it's not at all difficult, but it should be done frequently; what you can't see will hurt you; "magnetism" is something you have to be aware of.
I'm a fanatic when it comes to demagnetizing the heads; after every two reels of recording, that's what I do. If you're not doing any recording, and just enjoying playback, this isn't necessary.
If you just purchased a reel, buy new rubber rollers; these are essential for high quality recording and playback; also buy rubber roller cleaner, and head cleaner.
If my rubber rollers get a little bit shiny, I clean them. These are the things that will guarantee the best results from your reel.
Today, I'm going to make two posts, the next will be about how I used the new blank tape that I recently purchased.
Opened up the Sony today and the output pots were set at approx 2/3 of available span. Did not bother to hook up a meter to check if it was actually 0.78v as still low even if spot on. Cranked them both to max then backed off both a hair and then retried playback.
A fair increase in volume relative to volume setting on my amp without any distortion or artifacts I could hear so a win I would say.
Well one thing led to another and he offered me a mint B77 high speed
unit for what I considered a very fair price considering he was shipping
it from Switzerland to the USA!
A capstan adapter can be used to change the speed on a deck. A number of pro audio decks use this to do 30 inches but it can also be used to go from 7.5" to 15". If you've ever wondered why many machines (such as Ampex) have a threaded hole in the top of the capstan, its there for a capstan adapter. You might run into an issue with equalization but NAB 7.5" and 15" EQ is the same.
as far as output level, as several posters already noted, the consumer output level was established as -10db, while the pro level was established at +4 db. so considerable difference. if you plug a pro level deck into a consumer level pre amp, will have to lower the output a tad to make sure you don't overload the input stage.
and yes, 1.0volt into a phono input is way too hot for most preamp phono stages.....
but if you side step the playback electronics on the deck, you can come off the tape head and go into a phono stage. The eq willl need to be changed from RIAA or NAB or IEC, but the gain will be similar.
Bottlehead on Bainbridge Island makes some nice preamps just for your intended purpose....and they know great sound being the guys behind the Tape Project Tapes...
Uber IMO a nice Revox A-77 is the perfect low end deck you are talking about..they can be had in working shape for $200 ( or less as I recall Ralph just gave one away ).... nice carry handle built in, gentle tape handling, great sound..good enough for the Band and Dylan re The Basement Tapes.... what would you like to talk about ? I use one when scouting a new acoustic space on visit #2, after the Zoom6
The more things change the more they stay the same!
Sometimes wish I could just stop and settle at one project at a time but alas no!
What am I babbling about?
I was the member who Ralph shipped the Revox b77 too for just the cost of shipping. I had every intention of placing it into a home worthy case and getting it running correctly and to this end I was communicating with an eBay member in Switzerland who had a stock case. Well one thing led to another and he offered me a mint B77 high speed unit for what I considered a very fair price considering he was shipping it from Switzerland to the USA!
So with that being said I feel it is only fair to pass Ralphs B77 onto someone here if they are still interested. Obviously not looking to make any money on it but not looking to lose any either and I did pay $85 to have it shipped so I think that plus actual shipping to you is reasonable?
I did manage to check a few things out on it, ff and play seem to work well, one meter does not work, rw is very slow and I had headphone output in both channels so as Ralph said it likely will not take a lot of work.
It is in a flight case right now and that is how it will ship inside another cardboard box just for a bit of extra padding.
Message me direct if interested and my apologies for possibly taking it from other members in the first place, it was not my intention to have it end up like this.
For the last few days, I have been listening exclusively to the reel with tapes recorded at 7.5, and they sound just fine.
I've got some new tape ordered, and when it arrives, I'll record at 7.5. Regardless how good 15 IPS sounds, the time is half as much, and the cost is twice as much; I can live without it.
Yes I did find Ralph's suggested method to be a good place to start and with the info you have provided it should indeed be possible to see if there is any more voltage to go.
As far as headphones go I did think of that as well but as with my easy to drive cans even at full output the volume was still low I discarded it for same reason.
This is a project I will undertake tomorrow morning and hopefully the pots are not maxed out. I doubt it as it looks like this deck has seen very little use or even been opened up.
@Uberwaltz, if you choose to pursue Ralph’s good suggestion, you can find the service manual for your deck at hifiengine.com if you register there, or if you are already registered there. It is linked to on this page:
On page 20 of the manual (per the page numbering of the manual itself, not the page numbering of the pdf) it is indicated that R316 and R416 on the "Playback Circuit Board" adjust the maximum line level output voltages. A photo illustrates where those pots are located. There is no indication, though, of how much range those pots provide.
If your deck is presently adjusted per the procedure the maximum output voltage is 0 dbu, which is only 0.775 volts. And that is with a 100K load impedance; if you are driving a low impedance such as 10K or 20K (10K is the recommended minimum) that voltage would be a bit less.
Another possibility I thought about but rejected, btw, would be driving your amp from the deck’s headphone output, using an adapter. However while there is no indication of how much voltage the headphone output can supply, at least one of the two headphones recommended in the owner’s manual has an impedance of only 8 ohms, which I think makes it unlikely that that approach would help. If the deck were designed to drive high impedance headphones the maximum voltage of that output might have done the trick.
Crazy price, but considering all the R&D that was necessary, perhaps a reasonable MSRP, but way out most audiophile's budget (including mine) just to play 1/2 track tapes. Recording is not an option.
The Sony TC377 does has an output level control ( set on max right now). So there maybe a internal pot that can increase the level controlled by the output level control. Will have to see if can find a circuit diagram for it.
Silly question possibly but..... Is there any way to increase the output voltage at the deck or to increase it going into the amp. Obviously without having any deleterious sonic effect.
Often there is. As I mentioned earlier with most consumer decks the output is calibrated to 1 volt. But they can do more than that and there is usually a potentiometer that is used to set the output voltage. You can probably guess where I'm going with this. The problem is volume control but there are solutions for that. With some tinkering you might be able to install a volume control on the deck itself (it it doesn't already have one).
Yesterday, I recorded some new LP's on used tape at 15 IPS, the music came through, but there was tape hiss. This is a "tape hiss" free zone; that tape will be discarded, leaving the empty reel for later use.
Today, I've been listening to Diane Schuur recorded at 7.5, sounds great on Maxell XL-1 tape. She is one fantastic vocalist, I have to get some more of her works. She's still performing.
Silly question possibly but..... Is there any way to increase the output voltage at the deck or to increase it going into the amp. Obviously without having any deleterious sonic effect.
About what I though Ralph. My Akai cassette has approx same. However my Nakamichi 582 seems like it has a lot more output and this was just a consumer deck.
If I had one criticism it would be its relatively low output to my amp,
but I think that is likely fairly common issue in most vintage tape
decks.
Consumer decks (including cassette) are set to a 1.0 volt output generally. There was an expectation to be used with a preamp. Pro decks are a bit different and have a lot more output.
Uberwaltz, I had a friend who had a big beautiful Sony reel. The only thing I remember was the big multicolored buttons, and it's silent running.
It's not about whether or not it's state of the art, but whether or not you can get parts, and someone to work on it. Without those two things, I wouldn't recommend any deck.
I recall being in a large sale room that was devoted to nothing but reels. They had models of each major brand: Sony, AKAI, Pioneer, Crown and others; they had 10 and 7 inch models. I bought a 7 inch AKAI that played cassettes, 8 tracks, and reel.
Sony TC 377 must be a good deck, they're still selling them.
Funny how nobody seems to talk about the lower end of r2r or admit to owning a lesser deck.
While my Sony TC-377 is far from state of the art, it’s inherent simplicity and build quality will likely mean it will still be working into the next century.
Nope it will not give that state of the art replay some are experiencing here but I can say that Qobuz hires streaming recorded at 7.5ips on Ampex 641 sounds pretty darn good to myself.
@benjie Yes , studios will often use a RtR to fatten up and compress a track we do it with electric guitar, Fender Rhodes quite a bit. you can hear this across the whole multi track mix on The Teskey Brothers- Half Mike Harvest the CD has all of the dirt, overdrive, distortion, clipping present in the LP this is also a stellar album and work perfect at capturing the sound of an era enjoy the music
My goal is a faithful recreation of the original event hence my heavy investment in microphones, preamps, linear PSU for phantom power, direct into a much better than stock RtR and A2D converters, a fantastic DAC, etc i sponsor via patronage a recording studio and touring artist i have a decent grip on what unamplified music sounds like along with all the tape artifacts and lack of high frequency fidelity that more than 4 posters to this thread have mentioned- looks like they have an spl meter and can do a fair a/b the homework I mentioned will help you understand the loudness ( gain ) switch in your tape loop not trying to drag you down
Grand Master shows up in the manual as 2 Bias, and 2 EQ, the same as Benjie recommended.
All the new tape formulations are set up so you don't have to tweak the bias or EQ. The Ampex Grand Master became the gold standard in the old days so its a good bet that any new tape you get is aimed at that performance.
Tomic, as a matter of fact my preamps have "Black Gate" capacitors; if there is an electrolytic that's not too large, it's "Black Gate". When current equipment fails, I'll switch to Nichicon.
My speakers have Jantzen 0554 3.3uF 800V Z-Superior Capacitors
Love being lectured by someone who does not even own a deck is there an ignore button on Audiogon ?
any of the zealots complete the homework assignment of listening to your RtR electronics sans tape to discern which part you like or would that strain the flat earth society ?
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