Redbook+SACD Player to Replace Denon 5900?

Russ, the IMHO should be implied. These are all opinions. Mine aren't always humble ;)

Another thing that should be implied in all posts is "let your ears be your guide". Every time someone posts a question - there are about 2-3 people who post "let your ears be your guide" -- so why have a forum we should all just sit and listen and not compare ideas LOL but then how would we kill time at work?

my $.02
I've owned a philips 963sa for SACD, and used it as a transport for redbook to feed my smART DIO (at the time).

its a great player for the money, and SACD sounds wonderful
however...
I believe that redbook through the right DAC sounds just as good as SACD to me. See the Benchmark DAC-1. king of redbook playback!

Looks like a few people in this thread are forgetting to finish with IMHO (IMHO).

jdaniel,

A bunch of random facts, but what was your point? I didn't catch it. 80% of this and SACD backordered, and so on. What were you getting at? SACD is taking over because a title is backordered. Sounds like you've been reading Sound and Vision.

Look at the big picture and everything will come into focus, not individual SACDs that sold out because they didn't make enough, or how SACDs are 100% better than CD??? LOL

Don't confuse what you wish for with reality.

by the way DVD-A does sound better than SACD

Voodoo is when one pretends he is adressing the inferior lack of resolution of Redbook through the player rather than through the CD itself. While I *can* hear differences in Redbook CD player quality, I'm just not going to lavish money on a Redbook-only player when the buck stops at the source, the 16bit CD. If you want to put a $2 diamond on a $10,000 gold band, go ahead! For the last 20 years recording devices have gotten better, (witness 20 bit, 24bit, DSD), but the master still has to be compromised to fit on your (our) 23 year old 16 bit CD. The resolution ceiling is the resolution ceiling, no ifs ands or bits, er...buts.

Did you set the Marantz for CD direct? (Otherwise the sound may be accidentally processed back to PCM, that could be why it sounds bad so bad to you.) Did you address the fact that the output stage on the Marantz might not be up to par? Did you burn it in? Did you use an original DSD recording, or a horrid re-master of some crappy rock recording? All this matters. SACD, especially pure DSD or DSD remastered from good analog, *not* PCM), is just better than PCM. I can even hear the difference between DSD and original hi-rez PCM remastered to DSD, (Chandos and DG), the remastered PCM is still harsh. PCM also carries the burden of a very complicated decoding process, while DSD is much simpler and elegant. No matter how expensive the rest of your equipment is, the buck stops at the lousy resolution of Redbook. Wouldn't you rather let DSD, or 2,822,400 samples per second flow through your equipment?? (And the noise issue is BS; I flipped off the filter of my Marantz and got even better sound. My amp and speakers didn't explode.)

Sorry guys, can't tell I tried enough, but my 16bit PCM Moon Nova sounds Whole Way Better then SACDs I tried on Marantz 8400, and I don't mention its poor redbook playback.

BTW, I wouldn't call voodoo something just because I don't understand why and how it works. Or BMW is just a Toyota with lots of voodoo? :) For those who understand it often called "refinement".

Also, I don't get that excitement of the technology: while I admit that DVD-A implementation is far from ideal, from purely technical perspective DVD-A is far superior to DSD (at least it doesn't have to deal with huge amount of noise, which is there because of DSD concept), and DVD-A is old good PCM!

Nothing Rob, under 10K?

Anyway: Marantz, Classe, Musical Fidelity all make very good SACD/CD 2 channel players with redbook sound as good as it gets, and the usual extraordinary SACD, under 10K. Numbers are numbers dear, no matter how much voodoo is installed in the machine, redbook can only be resolved so much. BTW, can you explain to me...if Sony's bandwagon "goes to nowhere," how this with affect the brisk sales of Telarc SACDs, Naxos' SACDs Linn SACDs, Mobile Fidelity's SACDs, etc; your fixation on Sony is gettin' kinda weird. Yes, home theater geeks have bought up almost all 800 of Musical Fidelity's limited-edition $6500K SACD/CD players, but surely they aren't buying software, as it doesn't reconcile with your "reality." (Chailly's new Mahler 3rd in on back-order--sold out-- at Archiv as we speak--but no, you're right, it's a bandwagon to nowhere.) SACD may be 80% of vinyl, but it's better than 100% of 16bit PCM. Don't listen to such goofballs Dpipple, they absolutely don't want to recognise a superior sound in a technology that is elegantly simple and cheaper than Redbook machines with all their voodoo add-ons. It's like Gilligan got off the Island (the achievement of great sound without a lot of hassle), and some people feel 16- bit, er... I mean, empty inside.

Impossible unless you have $10k or more to spend -- so why not get a good redbook player instead of jumping on Sony's bandwagon to nowhere? You can do that for as little as $900.

Nice return Tom....Bob

Tvad: Excellent points. However, even though I recognize that I am taking somewhat of a chance (Dan's mods could blow), I do feel like I have made an informed decision, taking into account all that I have read and learned from others (including Dan Wright). Therefore, as I have convinced myself that a modded 5900 is a good way to go (which is not an easy task to do), I do feel comfortable recommending a similar route to others. For instance, if Dpippel sells his 5900 (at a loss, presumably), then buys another DVD player (even cheap one), by the time he picks up a quality CD player, it seems quite possible that he will have more money invested, overall, than if he had modded his 5900, and will have no better (and quite possibly worse) performance. And now he has two players, instead of one. So, if downsizing is his goal, I would think that keeping it to one player, and spending less money, but having improved performance, would be a good way to go. Hence, my recommendation.

That said, you are absolutely right that I will not have a complete picture until after I have had the modded 5900 in my system for some time. This is why I highlight the fact that I have not, indeed, had my 5900 in my system yet. The proverbial "grain of salt" should most certainly be added to my recommendations. However, I do think that there is some value to having other people share their thoughts on a subject that they, too, have considered in detail. And this is why I responded to this thread.

Later, Tom.

Too bad they don't ship overseas...

I am not positive but I believe one call will charge 25.00 tax so its really 309.00 plus shipping. Which still isnt bad.

Tinear, what / where is Onecall?

Thanks for the opinions guys. However I am trying to downsize, ie, save a little moola, so spending MORE money to have the 5900 modded isn't an option. In fact if I decide to go through with this plan I'll be selling the 5900.

I've already found a DVD player to replace the Denon for video duties. Now I need a CD player for the audio side of the equation. I'm quite happy with the way the Denon sounds in its stock form on both Redbook and SACD, so I'm looking for something comparable (or better).

Onecall is blowing out the Philips 963sa for $286!!!! Has the upsampler for redbook.

I agree with Thedautch. Unless you spend a bunch more money (which it doesn't sound like you want to), you won't do better with a seperate DVD player and Redbook/SACD player than you'd get out of a modded 5900. Mine is in Dan Wright's capable hands as we speak.

Have you considered having the 5900 modified? A number of aftermarket guys, including Dan Wright of Modwright and Alex Peychev of APL, have reported that this player has the potential to be excellent on redbook. I personally had Dan do about $800 on my Pioneer 563-A, and redbook performance improved significantly in every area.

Considering how much better the 5900 is than the 563, a similar investment in mods could yield even better redbook performance for you. Plus, you wouldn't have to give up SACD or DVD-A. Keep in mind, you might wind up regretting it if you abandon those formats and later become interested in new hi-rez releases.