Record Cleaning Machines

I just finished demoing a Kirmuss machine. The Kirmuss method of adding a surfactant and multiple sweeps of the US was not something that I was particularly interested in doing. My a'phile friend who let me use the Kirmuss does use the Kirmuss method, and I do think that there are some benefits to it ( although whether they are worth the risk to both stylus ( if you don't get all of the surfactant off) and record(s) ( if you have a problem with the slot load after multiple loads!) is questionable). I used the machine just with DW and nothing else,I also just did one sweep per record. The results were not that bad, and definitely better than I could get with my VPI 16.5 and various MoFi cleaners. OTOH, the concern that I had, and still have, for this machine is the possibility of its rather poor slot design damaging the vinyl. That alone discounted the Kirmuss for me. The ability to clean and increase the SQ on a generally clean and non-scratched LP was certainly there...just not enough for me to risk any precious vinyl damage.

@daveyf, thanks for the feedback/review! Much appreciated, as always! 
I've seen a few video reviews of the Kirmuss machine in action, one by Kirmuss, himself. I've also read a few reviews of this machine. I trust that it probably gets good cleaning/sonic results but the entire recommended  cleaning process is just too labor-intensive, for my tastes.

@antinn, once again, thanks so much for your scientific know-how applied to this realm! Even though I still don't entirely grasp or fully comprehend all the Physics involved, I do catch bits & pieces, here and there. I have taken a close look at that Elmasonic machine you mentioned. If I'm not mistaken, CleanerVinyl offers it on their site, along with a very large (too large, for me) multi-frequency machine (40, 80, 120 kHz) and a 132 kHz machine. Yesterday, I happened upon a 45 kHz/132 kHz Crest US machine that caught my interest. However, the sonic power is only 120 watts for a 1.4 gal. machine. I'd have to go 6.9 gal. to get 300 watts. WAY TOO BIG! The machines are advertised as having ceramically enhanced transducers to insure uniform cleaning throughout the tank by sweeping the ultrasonic frequency 3 kHz, creating overlapping US waves. They also carry a 2 year warranty and are purported to be quite reliable. I also took another look at CleanerVinyl's 1 micron filter systems. Seems like mucho dinero for what looks like a retro-fitted tropical fish aquarium pump & filter system but it is well designed and that is what you pay for.

As I indicated earlier, I suppose I could spring for a Degritter and use it as a final cleaner after a pre-clean through my 40 kHz machine. However, based upon my grand experiment of last week, the sonic improvement(s), IMHO, are just too subtle for me to condone spending 3 grand on something like that. At half the price, it would be a more serious consideration. Even so, 15 minutes to clean 3 records in the 40 kHz machine plus another 10 minutes, or so, on heavy cycle, for a single record through the Degritter doesn't add to the appeal. I'm thinking adding CleanerVinyl's 1 micron filter to my madness, my newly acquired 0.5 to 3 RPM motor to slow down revs to 1 RPM for 3 records and using Tergitol (with or without IPA) might be a cost-effective alternative, at least for now. (Thanks so much for the lead on the Terigitol. You saved me some bucks! Always appreciated!). In the future, if were to find a reliable, reasonably priced 120 or 132 kHz US machine with sufficient cleaning power that would accommodate my CleanerVinyl equipment, that would be interesting. If I could simply and easily transfer my skewer of records from the 40 kHz machine over to the higher frequency machine that would save some time.

One again, much thanks to all of you!

@oldaudiophile,

You can do a DIY industrial 0.2 micron filter and pump that is as good as it gets for about $350 for best pump, $280 for a smaller less robust pump. The pump draws suction from the tank drain and discharges to the filter back to the tank. Here is the parts list (the primary items are addressed in the book Chapter XIV).

Filter Canister: Pentek 150574 ~$40. Pentek 150574 10" 3G Standard Filter Housing Black/Blue MM IB w/ PR - – Fresh Water Systems

Wrench for Canister: Pentek SW-2 ~$6

Differential Pressure Gauge: Pentek 143549 ~$53 (Green (clean) 0-6 psid; Yellow (change) 6-9 psid; Red (dirty) 9-12 psid) Pentek 143549 Differential Pressure Gauge With 3 Color Needle – Fresh Water Systems

Pump: two options:  These pumps need to be secured to a base such as wood with simple rubber vibration isolators such as  MY MIRONEY 4-Pack 20 x 15mm Rubber Vibration Isolator Mount Shock Absorber with M6 x 18mm Studs: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific or a simple rubber pad.  These pumps develop the necessary for the 0.2 micron absolute filter.

Shurflo 8020-513-236 (115VAC) ~$154 Shurflo Pump 8020-513-236 115vAC Power Cord 60PSI Switch 1.6 GPM (toboaenergy.com)

Shurflo Model SLV10-AA48 (12VDC) ~$65 SLV10-AA48 Automatic Demand 12V Pump with On/Off Switch & 2 Pin Connec – Sprayer Depot + 12VDC power supply ~$22 Amazon.com: MEAN WELL GST60A12-P1J 12V 5 Amp 60W Regulated Switching Table Top Power : Everything Else. You have to wire the power supply to the pump motor.

Filter: FlowMax HP (Watts) FPP-0.2-975-DOE 0.2 micron absolute
— ~ $50 Flow-Max FPP-0.2-975-DOE Pleated Filter Cartridge (toboaenergy.com)

Hose Barb for filter canister: x2 nylon Hose Barb ¾" NPT x 3/8” Barb ~$15 LASCO 19-9503 Male Hose Thread Adapter Barb Fitting with 3/8-Inch Barb and 3/4-Inch Male Hose Thread, Nylon - - Amazon.com

Hose Barb for 115VAC Pump: x2 Hose Barb 3/8” NPT x 3/8” Barb — nylon or plastic not metal per Shurflo ~$8 Amazon.com: ANPTGHT Plastic Hose Barb Fitting, 3/8" Barb X 3/8" NPT Male Thread Adapter Connector Pipe Fittings for Fuel Gas Liquid Air (Pack of 5) : Industrial & Scientific

Tubing: 3/8″ ID Heavy Duty Reinforced Vinyl Tubing, BPA Free and Non Toxic — 10 ft ~ $20 Amazon.com: 3/8" ID x 50 Ft High Pressure Braided Clear PVC Vinyl Tubing Flexible Vinyl Tube, Heavy Duty Reinforced Vinyl Hose Tubing, BPA Free and Non Toxic : Patio, Lawn & Garden.

Add hose clamps (5) and one hose barb adapter for the tank drain valve. Use a binder clip (or whatever you want) to secure the hose to the tank top - the terminates in the tank top below the surface.

On/Off Switch for Pump: BindMaster 3-Prong Grounded On/Off Switch ~$7. Bindmaster 3 Prong Grounded Single Port Power Adapter for Outlet with Indicator Lighted On/Off Switch to be Energy Saving {1 Pack}… - - Amazon.com.

Good Luck,
Neil

Great post, Neil. Thanks for all the filter info, not to mention your LP cleaning "article" that @whart published on his site. As I consider vacuuming off the water after cavitation a must, I came to the conclusion that the Degritter---nice as it is---is not the way to go.

A high-frequency (over 100kHz) ultrasonic tank can be had for under a grand, and your method of pre-cleaning does more to clean the LP than does any other method I've ever been aware of. Add ultrasonic captivation and then vacuuming, and you have an LP as clean as is humanly possible. Pretty easy to do, too.

@antinn, seems I can't thank you enough for this incredible wealth of knowledge, guidance and experience! You are truly amazing! I wish I could express my gratitude more tangibly (e.g. buy you a beer, fine single malt or beverage of your choice).

If I'm not mistaken, that lash-up pump & filter system is what Tima uses. I use a Pentek Big Blue whole-house water filter for my home. Makes lots of sense to incorporate a smaller version for this application.

I've noticed, along the way, that you have judiciously avoided subjective issues like sound quality achieved or capable of being achieved by different record cleaning methods and kept the discussion strictly focused on quantitative cleaning results. Not surprising for a person with a good mind for science! However, I can't help but wonder if you may have some preference(s) for one cleaning method(s) over another as it impacts on sound quality. The prevailing wisdom or opinion in audiophile circles is that US cleaning yields the best sonic results because it obtains the best cleaning results with the least wear & tear on record grooves. Seems to make sense, in theory, but audiophiles are fond of splitting hairs and chasing their tails in search of the holy grail of best audio quality. As such, I can't help but wonder if careful & proper manual cleaning can achieve the same sound quality improvement(s) as other methods with inconsequential wear & tear on those precious record grooves where the music lives.

All the best!

@oldaudiophile,

Yes, the pump/filter system is the same one that Tima uses, and if you read this lengthy comment section  Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records - The Vinyl Press you will see where I worked with Tima to develop it.  I have work with a number of people developing similar pump/filter systems - its gets tough sourcing equivalents for people in Poland & New Zealand.

Regarding what method will achieve the best cleaning, as I wrote in the book - "XII.13 The final chapters of this document will discuss machine assisted cleaning methods: vacuum record cleaning machines (RCM) and ultrasonic cleaning machines (UCM). It’s important to consider that machines are generally developed for two primary reasons – reduce labor and improve process efficiency. Process efficiency can mean faster (higher throughput) and/or higher probability of achieving quality or achieving a quality that manual labor cannot produce. Manual cleaning in the appropriate environment with appropriate controls can achieve impressive levels of cleanliness, but the labor, skill, time and probability of success generally make it impractical for manufacturing environments. But for the home audio enthusiast; depending on your attention to details, adopting machine assisted cleaning may or may not yield a cleaner record. However, the ease of use and convenience provided by machines can be very enticing and cannot be denied."

However, make no mistake, if your process throughput is very high; i.e, you need/want to clean 5-6 records at a time - UT is it.  But, if you are not careful with all the details, you may process records fast, but that does not mean that they will be 'cleaner' than a process/system that cleans one at time.  

Devil is in the details,
Neil

@bdp24,

The process you use is very similar to that used by @whart for some years now -  System Notes-Austin, 2017 - The Vinyl Press.  He uses a Monks vacuum-RCM for pre-clean, KL Audio UT for final clean (DIW only) and then dry with the Monks.  I have worked with a number of people using this process with variations in chemistry and equipment, but once dialed are very satisfied - its a proven process that works.  People cleaning many records at a time with good UT tank filtration do get excellent results with just air dry.  

But some (many) people want the ultimate convenience provided by the Degritter,  But some are now using a separate tank for rinse which is easily swapped-in and does elevate the performance of the unit.  

Take care,
Neil

@antinn , this paper is incredible! It has me rethinking a lot of things and looking at purchasing what would probably be a lifetime supply of industrial cleaners, lol.  

Could I ask, if you were to recommend an easy/fast version of your cleaning method, what would that look like? Would a one-step process, for example, even be possible?  Thanks in advance. 

@wavez,

 

One step, of course, its called a $3000 Degritter or maybe a $6000 Clearaudio Double Matrix Pro Sonic.  Convenience is expensive.  There is the ~$500 (w/shipping) Humminguru, but to get good results with it you need multiple steps.

As far as a manual cleaning process, there are the one-step record cleaning brushes that many people use, but that is not what the book is addressing.

A fast easy version is shown Figure 6.  You can skip the acid-wash if you want - but it can prevent you from getting the most out of the process.   But there are details described in Chapter V to make sure you get the results you can; otherwise you will attempt to do me death by a 1000 questions and I am just going to say - Read Chapter 3 on how to prepare the cleaning solutions and read Chapter 5 on how to use them.  The Devil is in the Details.  

Good Luck,

@oldaudiophile before you get too far down the road, you may want to buy a good USB microscope so you can see clearly down into the groove. Once you have that in place you will be able to visually see the differences between clearers as well as hear any difference. I did this several years ago, and it totally changed the way I clean records. 

So many cleaners do nothing more than clean the top surface of the LP and do little to nothing to really clean the groove, especially the bottom of the groove where all sorts of crap resides.