Record Care Regime can I do better ?

Swann36, this is the right place to post but a real bad question. There are as many ways to clean records as there are record collectors and everyone has a theory. Contrary to popular mythology, records come from the factory pretty clean with maybe some incidental dust and an occasional finger print. You just want of keep them free of static and clean during play. I use a grounded sweep arm and a dust cover. Pay attention to your stylus after you play a record. If it remains clean the record was clean. If it collects a ball of gunk the record was not. Used records are another proposition and should be cleaned. What you are doing seems fine. There is no need to clean a clean record. Records should be stored upright under slight pressure, not loose and leaning and in a smog free environment.

Right now, ultrasonic machines are the gold standard and the people who own them swear by their effectiveness.  What you are doing is fine, but it would be a lot easier if you invested in a vacuum machine like a VPI or Nitty-Gritty so you don't have to let them dry overnight.  But other than that, I wouldn't be concerned about what you are doing.  There are some people who gave up analog because they got too anal about record cleaning, stylus alignment and the countless other things you can obsess over with vinyl.  IMO - clean your records, put them in a new sleeve, clean your stylus and play the record.  Enjoy. 

You forgot the Stylast! Use it on the cartridge before playing a side! Claimed to extend diamond life!

chayro

... ultrasonic machines are the gold standard and the people who own them swear by their effectiveness ...

Absolutely. Not only are they effective, but the best of them offer a convenient "one-button" solution to record cleaning, which means you'll be much more likely to use it.

 ... it would be a lot easier if you invested in a vacuum machine like a VPI or Nitty-Gritty so you don't have to let them dry overnight ...

Records allowed to air dry will accumulate dust during the process.

mijostyn

Contrary to popular mythology, records come from the factory pretty clean with maybe some incidental dust and an occasional finger print.

That's an oxymoronic statement. If you have incidental dust and sometimes a fingerprint, your records obviously aren't clean from the factory. That's no surprise, because LPs aren't made in clean rooms and, in fact, some record pressing plants are very messy places.

You just want of keep them free of static and clean during play.

It's odd that you think an LP arrives clean from the factory, yet is somehow uniquely subject to becoming unclean once it's on your turntable.

oh i can tell the fun is just beginning on this one... :)

swan336:

Just for fun watch this YouTube vidio on cleaning vinyl records...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfxNWFWV1Qc

DeKay

@mijostyn  firstly thanks for your reply...

I have found some brand new records (still shrink wrapped) very noisy with static and made my stylus dirty, not all only a few but it has happened too many times so i do clean everything even brand new prior to play ...so i think it depends on the pressing plant ...
I am interested to know more about your "grounded sweep arm" as thats a new one on me ...
I always look at the stylus before playing a side and if it looks gunked up by anything i currently use the VP dustbuster ..so seems that's on the right track

Swann, I have thousands of records and I have never had that happen.
I suspect you are seeing gunk from previous plays? Certainly there is variability between plants.
If you look at my systems page you can see the grounded sweep arm in action. The bristles are conductive carbon shorting the surface of the record out to ground. Any static collected by the record for whatever reason (trying to figure that out) will be totally removed assuming you play both sides. https://www.sleevecityusa.com/Antistatic-Record-Cleaning-Arm-p/tac-01.htm   I rarely have to clean my stylus and I watch it with a USB microscope. The only record cleaning device I have is a spin clean for record brought by others. I do not buy used records. I do not put anything on my records but I am running an experiment based on a theory of mine as to how Last record preservative works. Last is a chlorofluorocarbon solvent and 100% volatile. With the Last brush it will remove plasticizers from the surface of the record causing the surface to harden making it more durable. Plasticizers are added to the vinyl to soften it so that it presses out easier. It does nothing else. So, I have taken 5 brand new Analog Production's records and blasted off both sides with a chlorofluorocarbon solvent also known as brake cleaning fluid. It does not damage the label at all and the records play like any brand new record from Analog Productions.  For $50 (the price for one little bottle of Last) you can get two cases of CRC brake cleaning fluid. It is also great for cleaning your bicycle parts! 
Now cleeds, I have seen two fingerprints in perhaps 500 records. They are superficial and do not affect play. There is dust everywhere so it should not surprise anyone that you would see a few flecks on a new record. As long as the record is not charged the dust will stay on the surface where any brush can take it off. Since I use the sweep arm and dust cover during play extremely little dust gets to the stylus. Once in a blue moon I'll have to remove some lint. It is oxymoronic that your comments towards mine are always friendly, well intentioned. Thank you.

@mijostyn;

Most chlorofluorocarbon solvents stopped manufacture in 1996 per the Montreal Protocol.  

CRC brake cleaning fluid https://www.crcindustries.com/products/crc/crc-brakleen.html now come in various compositions, one non-flammable version contains perchloroethylene which is a known carcinogen.  One VOC-free 50 state version contains acetone & naphtha and will dissolve the vinyl record. 

Please stop recommending the CRC Brake Clean.  You may have the old version that did contain a CFC solvent (likely methyl chloroform or CFC-113), but that version is no longer available and never will be again. 

In the meantime, I believe Swann is from the UK and most of the current CRC Brake Clean products are likely not allowed to be sold.  However, if it is sold - I would recommend you not buy it; its either going to be potentially toxic or its going to dissolve that record.  

As @cleeds stated, LPs aren't made in clean rooms and, in fact, some record pressing plants are very messy places.

Having worked in a clean room environment and having analyzed new LPs, I would say that most record pressing plants are dirty. I would definitely clean any new LP.  Most new LPs have significant contamination on the surface which is not visible to the naked eye. Much of this contamination is due to mold-release compounds. Once cleaned in an ultrasonic cleaner your LPs should be fine for quite a while if handled carefully and stored properly.

Your cleaning process looks fine.

+1 @antinn

Thanks all for the comments so far .... it seems that i should consider investing in an RCM at some point .... be it Ultrasonic or a more affordable Project VCS type thing ...
I have added a Milty Zerostat gun recently after reading about and chatting with others who have them, so that should prove to be a reducer of static , which while doesn't seem to be much of an issue sound wise for me , could be contributing to my 'dust' problems ..

so once again thanks for the comments and all future thoughts are welcome ...

@swann36,

To repeat a post I made over at Steve Hoffman (with a few mods) and in reference to your issue with the stylus collecting gunk:

This review of the Disco unit Disco-Antistat Vinyl Cleaning Machine From Knosti - The Audiophile Man , states the same problem with gunk on the stylus and attributes it to the supplied cleaning agent. The reviewer does go on to offer some suggested alternative cleaning agents. Also, you can use the ILFORD ILFOTOL that can be purchased in the UK. If using ILFORD ILFOTOL, you can double the recommended concentration from 1part cleaner:200parts water to 1part cleaner:100 parts water to get improved detergency. The recommended 1:200 is good as a ’wetting’ agent; but it ’may’ be a bit ’light’ as a detergent. But first try at 1:200 (5 ml/liter). Just make sure to rinse after use as you currently do.

I will add that allowing the record to dry overnight can allow it collect lint & particles that are in the air that you cannot see with normal light. These airborne lint/particulate are visible with a 265nm UV light. If you decide to use a UV light for inspection - you will not need more than 10W and the inspection time is just a few seconds - intense UV light for long periods can damage the record. Takeaway - if allowing to dry overnight place in a area with limited air flow (which sounds contradictory, but you want it dry and clean).

Big question - aside from the stylus gunk - are you otherwise satisfied with your process? Do your records mostly play quiet? How often do you change out the cleaning bath? I have no rule of thumb for you. A benefit of vacuum-RCM is that fresh cleaner is used each time. Cleaning particulate from the groove is not easy - there is an entire science on what it takes to clean minute particulate (i.e. <~25micron) - the semi-conductor industry. A big takeaway is developing enough shear force to release the particle from the surface; and this is influenced by fluid surface tension, and fluid agitation. Ultrasonics work because of the high cavitation (fluid agitation) that is produced; and the tank offers a lot of cleaning fluid volume and this can be improved with tank filtration to keep the fluid clean. But, you can use manual brushing to also develop high fluid agitation. So when you say you use 10 rotations - how fast do you rotate?

I use a manual cleaning process - you can download what I do for free here https://thevinylpress.com/precision-aqueous-cleaning-of-vinyl-records/ - let me reiterate - this addresses A way to clean - not THE way. For me to really deep clean the particulate I am moving my brush back-forth (= one stroke) at a rate as high as two strokes of ~6-inch-arc/second. Slower is OK for surface type soils such as a finger-print, but small particles need lots of agitation. BUT, BUT, BUT, if you use a brush that actually penetrates the groove deeply then the rapid motion risks breaking off the brush tips making the problem worse. The brush I use just covers the top of the groove and the bristles are flexible - so the rapid motion is moving the cleaning fluid and the foam that is developed in the brush helps lift away particulate.

Good luck,
Neil

I’m too cheap to buy anything expensive, if I can get results manually. I can afford it, but have nowhere to set it up if I bought ...

I started cleaning my old LP’s, nasty, mine, or given to me by friends when they went to CD’s. Cleaned, they sound very good and quiet. I keep them or sell them on eBay.

mix my own cleaning fluid, manual spray bottle, a bit more than needed for 10. mostly 91% alcohol, some purchased mix, a few drops of wetting stuff from dishwasher machine. manual rinse with distilled water, pre-dry lint free cloth, in the 10 lp rack.

I scrub VIGOROUSLY with baby scalp scrub brushes

https://www.amazon.com/Scalp-Scrubbie-Sterile-Cradle-Sponge/dp/B005EJ7YH4/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=289SP...=

your modern stylus profile is getting down into the grooves where old elliptical never reached. deep groove cleaning, then improved groove wall contact, they sound surprisingly good.

I protect the paper labels with the lid from a Chinese Soup container.
........................
In this listing, next to last photo, you can see what I worked out, cleaning and drying batches of 10 while listening in a perfect triangle. Normal listening chair is 4 feet behind, L & R projecting toed in, without table obstruction.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/George-Harrison/133555126055

Last photo is the Vintage TT I assembled with lots of help here. I just squeezed in a 3rd arm on left side, backwards, only 210mm spindle to pivot, and short counterweight rear portion (to fit inside the dust cover).

3 cartridges ready to go, back and forth during a listening session.

left side Grado Mono MM; rear arm is Stereo MM, replaceable stylus; long right side arm is Stereo MC which I love but don’t want to wear out playing ’not too special’ LP’s.

Mono Lp’s played via true Mono Cartridge can be better, much better, and vastly better than playing via Stereo Cartridge, even when using McIntosh ’Mono’ via it’s Mode Switch. A few old Jazz Mono LP’s were transformed from non-involving ’history’ lessons to very involving musical experiences. Not imaging, but nice distinction of individual players.

MM is no slouch Shure V15VxMR body with new Jico SAS stylus. MC, AT33PTG/II is favorite, Very similar performance to Shure, except Imaging is best due to wider channel separation and tighter channel balance improving sound and location of individual players.
.............................

Stylus, I keep a 20 power make-up mirror below the stylus

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QXKFT6J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

typical little brush, gel pad, liquid stylus cleaner, Discwasher static brush.

I just cut small hunks off of these,

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WNQV39L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I also keep small alcohol wipes handy, if I encounter a ’blip’, I watch the track and spot on the label rotation, and manually clean that area with the pad, 9 times out of 10 it’s something you cannot see or feel.