Questions Regarding Installing a Wheaton Triplanar On A SOTA Cosmos

@neonknight The Tri Planar will not fit on a Cosmos, not even close. The two best arms that will fit are the Kuzma 4 Point 9 and my personal favorite, the Schroder CB. The CB is way more sophisticated than it looks which is deceptively simple. Peter Ledermann is a huge Schroder supporter. 

@pindac I can not argue about Ortofon, The MC Diamond is a great cartridge and I expect the Verismo does not sound much different. They are very low output and require a very quiet phono stage. Ortofon has a presence in the market that no other company can match. Having said this, I have to say that I am pleasantly pleased with the Soundsmith cartridges I have owned in terms of quality, performance and support. The Hyperion MR is easily up there in performance with the Lyra Atlas SL and the MC Diamond. The Stylus on the Hyperion MR is a real piece of work. You can see it here 

As for the Verismo, I am very keen to hear it in use and have a offer to be demo'd it in a Home System. I will revisit the invite very soon, to see what can be arranged.

Ortofon are spearheading the R&D into Damper Design, I see Damper materials as the most influential material on a sound that can be produced, followed by the tensioning of the Armature into the Damper. 

The Verismo has a bespoke produced Damper, hence my keenness to learn of the influence from this Damper type. I am not aware of it being used on any other Cart's from the Brand.

I myself have a Ortofon Cart' from a earlier period and one which is lower down in  the range. This Cart' has been modified with a TOTR WRD under its hood. This has been compared to the same design as the original and the same design as rebuild.

My Cart' stands out for the quality of sound being produced in a comparison and only becomes a slight different sound, but not bettered when compared to a much more expensive Cart' in the Ortofon range 

I don't see any other Cart' producer competing with Ortofon in the near future, there research and designs are now funded by a owned subsidiary producing micro rubber parts for the medical industry.

I get the impression the Ortofon Brand, will be trouncing their competitors  when it comes to sales proportion on the Pie Chart. 

The real let down, is the Company has now stopped all the old opportunities for a  certain selected group of Third Party Services to buy parts from them.   

I was pipped to the post, see the Link, and another source produces a P'holz Platter for the Garrard 301.

I am from the school where certain materials are at there best if Homogenous, but 3D printing and the substrates that can be used are slowly changing my school of thought. As stated recently the audio industry or DIY entity are very close to seeing structures produced from mycelium spores being formed into structures. If it good enough for Formula One it has a place everywhere that needs eco friendly structures to be produced.

Houses are being produced out of mycelium blocks in earthquake areas, as the blocks have energy dissipation that surpasses other typical and affordable building materials.  

My own SP10 Mk II as a Kaneta Design, will be tried out with a stacked Platter using different configurations for the Stack.

There will be original platter on original platter, the same again with top platter filled with Newplast Modellers Putty (Newplast measures as a damping material very similar to a Resin Impregnated Densified Wood), Acetal is already available to be machined as a top plater, Phosphor Bronze and SS are both available as Platters which can be used as a sub or top platter, P'holz is another, which is already discussed to be considered, but I think will be a later down the line introduction. 

Good Lord @pindac you shall be soon constructing the platter out of Panzer H.

But we are divergent from our intrepid OP who has other fish to fry.

OP - so i assume you have the tool to drill armboard ?

Ive heard the Verismo at some lengths on excellent arms both a Kuzma 4 pt and a Safir…i think you will like it on the TP… Best in music to you.

Jim

There is not many I know apart from Five inclusive of myself, who have experienced in side by side comparisons, a Same TT, TA, Cart’ with same Sub -Mounting, where three TT were used, with one set in a Marine Plywood Plinth another in a Compressed Plywood Plinth and the other in a P’holz Plinth.

My own evaluation was in keeping with others who experienced the Demo’s, which is P’holz has the most attractive influence, if one wants all the details to be laid out and easily detected.

If one wants noticeable Colouration Marine Plywood is the choice to make, if one wants a tidied up sound over Plywood, a compressed plywood is quite suitable.

P’holz is King and difficult to not use once experienced, especially following comparative experiences. Other options are seemingly firing on Three Cylinders only.

Removal of Stator and Bearing assembly from it’s metal chassis and embedding it into a Panzerholz Chassis/Plinth is all the rage in my little world of SP10 Mk II’s.

I have a box next to me now with a recently imported Stator/Motor contained, as gift to a friend.

I’m also able to use the same design, but not yet set in to a P’holz Plinth.

P’holz or Permali as the exchange material to the Aluminium Base on a Sota, will in my view transform it.

The Bearing on a Sota can also be much improved, even beyond the later guises developed, that took care of the serious flaws discovered after short term usage of original designs.

Bearings are at there best when rotating with an extremely true axis, ( think very low microns), extremely low coefficient of friction (think 0.03 - 0.08) and measures adopted to avoid a Metal on Metal contact within the bearing assembly. Such a bearing design can cost one multiple $0000’s or fortunately in many cases much less to attain, it depends on how one goes about getting to this level of performance.,

In relation to this thread, I am quite interested to see if this new TA, is one with the performance to show as a comparison how constraining the SME V is, as an influence on how a recording is perceived when being replayed.

TT’s hey, either loved or loathed.

Lots of SP10 Mk3 users have removed the motor assembly from the base chassis and re-installed the motor only in a plinth that permits the coupling you describe.  I have nearly achieved the same thing without doing that in my home made plinth, but I do wish I had had the guts to just pull the motor.  Steve Dobbins was the first to do it commercially and make a plinth to go with.  But this is a sidebar to the question at hand.

Albert Porter's Panzerholz re-plinth does not involve removing the motor assembly from the square chassis. So his plinth is certainly superior to the Technics plinths made for the SP10 Mk2 or Mk3 but is still subject to the issue of which you speak. He deals with that by installing a block of solid iron below the TT.  There is a threaded rod (steel or whatever) that screws into the iron block and is adjusted to fit snugly up against the base of the bearing housing.  The block is firmly coupled to the chassis, as is the tonearm.  I've done the same thing in my home made slate and cherrywood plinth, but I used brass instead of iron; I did not like the idea of installing such a massive piece of iron so close to the permanent magnet that constitutes the rotor of the motor.

If I am remembering the spatial relationships correctly, you would need a spacer wide enough to bring the base of the TP up to the level of the top of the square escutcheon that surrounds the platter (on Technics SP10 mk2, mk3, and R). 

@lewm The problem with those turntables is they don't have a proper plinth, being designed for radio station use. What this means is you can't really hear what they are about unless you fix that problem. A proper plinth will be something that rigidly couples the base of the platter bearing to the base of the arm, that is also acoustically dead. To my mind that would take a bit of machining and a good solidworks drawing of the new plinth as it should all be the same material.

If you have something like a panzerholz aftermarket base, it may well be more dead than the vestigial plinth of the machine itself. As a result if there is vibration in the platter, the tonearm will be able to pick it up as a coloration or signal. If the plinth was properly designed that would not happen. For this reason I think the SL1200G is a better bet as it has a proper plinth. Its also easy to mount a Triplanar to it with a proper arm board.

That is a very good question Jim. I have just a handful of cartridges I can work with. The second arm on the Scheu is a Schroder CB-1L in ebony and I will use either a Transfiguration Audio Proteus or an Ortofon Verismo. Both cartridges sound nice on that arm. I will probably leave the Proteus on it. My third cartridge is an Audio Tekne MC-6310, which might go on the SME V which is on the SOTA. So the Verismo goes on the Wheaton. I have a Kiseki Blackheart Gen 1 that I currently have on the SME V and it sounds quite nice there. It will go to the sidelines, as well as a restored Ortofon MC2000 I have. 

OP - agree… i wouldn’t and didn’t butcher my SOTA to make that work. IF you dont have the needed TP tool to locate the arm, let me know and i can get that to you. 

What cartridge? i’ve run a few on the TP but always interested in others impressions 

Best

Jim

I can confirm that Triplanar sells spacers that are 1/4". I use two of them under mine to bring the arm up to the proper level for my JVC TT-81 on the CL-P2 plinth. Put it at just the right height for the VTA adjustment to be useful in both directions. Definitely worth the money for parts that fit perfectly.

If I am remembering the spatial relationships correctly, you would need a spacer wide enough to bring the base of the TP up to the level of the top of the square escutcheon that surrounds the platter (on Technics SP10 mk2, mk3, and R).  The problem otherwise is that the escutcheon and the location of the VTA tower on the TP together prevent one from twisting the TP so as the arm wand will clear the platter when the arm wand is sitting in its rest position.  If the arm wand rests so that it sits partially over the platter, then playing LPs would be awkward and endanger the stylus, if one is not very careful.  And who can be very careful after a couple of glasses of wine?  This is also assuming one can obtain the proper P2S distance with the TP in that situation, which I don't remember.

Ralph, if memory serves my TP would not fit properly, which is to say so that the arm wand would not overhang the platter when at rest using a plinth where the Technics chassis sits above the plinth surface.

Just looked at my Tri-Planar. If you had enough slack in the tone arm wires where it comes out of the arm tube, you could use a spacer to elevate the tone arm wire retention screw so the wires clear the well the tonearm sits in.

@lewm @elrod @neonknight I think you can get 1/4" spacers from Triplanar. I've used them and didn't get them made (so I think I got them from Triplanar). If the arm board is sunk below the plinth the spacer can solve that problem along with tonearm cable issue.

Ralph, if memory serves my TP would not fit properly, which is to say so that the arm wand would not overhang the platter when at rest using a plinth where the Technics chassis sits above the plinth surface. If one has a plinth designed to sink the escutcheon of the Technics so the two surfaces are level with each other, like with Porter’s Panzerholz plinth, that might work. I’m talking only about SP10 mk2, mk3, and the new R. That’s why I bought a 10.5 inch Reed. Nowadays you could get the 12 inch TP.

If I have to trim the upper level of the plinth the arm will go on the Scheu. That's fine too really. 

it does not fit in the well without trimming the upper deck…Sota and Triplaner owner…The wire routing is a lesser issue but may hinder proper movement of tge spring suspension… about 75% of the SOTA magic….

Just looked at my Tri-Planar. If you had enough slack in the tone arm wires where it comes out of the arm tube, you could use a spacer to elevate the tone arm wire retention screw so the wires clear the well the tonearm sits in.

Just looking at a photo, that arm board is sitting down in a well. Where the tone arm needs sit, the TP leads may be hitting on the base edge preventing the TP base from seating properly. I have no idea if the TP has enough tower adjustment with a flush arm board to set VTA properly. He needs to check that firsts.

@lewm I've seen plenty of Technics machines with the Triplanar, one of them being owned by Tri Mai of Triplanar.

@neonknight You'll need a new arm board of course. Why are you concerned about the cable routing? Is it a cosmetic thing?

I once owned a Star Sapphire III and still own a Triplanar. I believe the topology of the Cosmos is identical to the SS. Your answer is no. It won’t work, because the VTA tower on the TP gets in the way. I’m sure Mijostyn will chime in. TP now offer optional longer arm wands, 12 inch might work. Maybe TP can modify yours. The routing of the cables is not the problem; they just go over the top of the deck.

As I write this, I’m wondering whether my memory is playing tricks. The TP won’t work on a Technics SP10 mk2 or mk3 for the same reason, and maybe I’m confusing my experiences with SOTA vs Technics. Like I said, Mijo has more recent experience.