An issue did arise last year. I noticed a power hum in my Bryston PP300 amps. This a mechanical hum in the amp itself and not in the audio line. I tried the amps just connected to the mains without using the PurePower conditioner. There was no hum in the unconditioned line. I contacted PurePower and after some back and forth this is what Richard told me:
While the audiophile’s explanation of DC in AC has some technical validity - its actually more accurately defined as DC Bias. Think of a sine wave in which the crossing point is not at 0 volts - i,e its waveform could vary from -125 to + 115 instead of -120 to +120.
That is a form of asymmetry - which causes the transformer windings to vibrate and thus hum. It does not happen with these monoblocs without a PurePower involved.
However, in the PurePower case, there will not be any DC offset in the AC output. We have analyzed cases of toroid hum with sophisticated Power Quality analyzers - and you can see a distortion in the current waveform that is only observed in one side of the wave. In case you are interested I attach a waveform capture. You can see the current distortion on one side of the wave while the voltage sinewave is perfect. This distortion is asymetrical, and is, we believe, caused by the amplifier power supply drawing current unevenly. I’m not an expert is Audio Power supply design - so I’ve never figured out the exact technical reason.
The PurePower reacts by supplying this non symmetrical current. Usually the utility supply does not respond - and thus the distorted current waveform does not form. If you observe the PurePower current waveform under any other load you will see a near perfect symmetrical wave.
It might be useful for us to send you a data logging analyzer. You can then run your system for a short time with and without the PurePower regenerator and return it for analysis."
and then this:
"In slightly oversimplified terms, the utility has a higher value of the electrical characteristic called stiffness in the electrical supply - essentially a function of the supply impedance that resists the imposed load - thus the utility simply does not respond to the current demand fast enough to create the asymmetry. The PurePower does react and supplies the change in current quickly - which is also why it is so perfect for meeting the rapidly changing current demand of the amplifier as it tries to match the audio signal power needs.
Our preference would be for the damn toroid’s in audio amplifiers to be built to not hum - which the best do not. Unfortunately some amplifier brands use unpotted inexpensive toroid’s because they don’t consider the power supply worthy of the same quality considerations as the audio circuits.
Bryston does use good quality Plitron toroids - so I was surprised to see the 300 exhibit hum.
I’ll have Damian give me instructions for the PQ meter.
We have been successful in "balancing" asymmetric power supplies in the past - but haven’t used the balancing circuit for some years because our latest circuits are much less likely to cause transformer hum."
I asked to go ahead and either try the PQ meter or the new upgraded model that might eliminate this problem. But now they are silent and I have not been able to get them to help with this problem. The technical explanation is beyond my limited understanding of electronics, but it still seems to me a power conditioner should not lead to the introduction of an artifact.
Harold
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Just to help update this thread. I recently bought a PurePower + 1500 directly from the company. My experience dealing with them was excellent and the APS itself appears to do all it is intended to do without issue. I have only had it a week but so far all is well. Richard has been very clear and very helpful including upgrading the battery in my unit to lithium and finding me an excellent alternative rackmounting system for the unit.
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I have started a website to collect evidence of PurePower's fraudulent activities:
http://www.purepowerscam.com/
I have also purchased purepoweraps.net and purepowerfraud.com which redirect there. I will be collecting evidence and posting it on this site. |
Sad but probably the sane thing to tell yourself just so you can move past it...try opening a case with the Ontario authorities. |
I've pretty much given up the hope that I will ever see my unit again at this point. |
Amen...see other threads for details of other horror stories with the PP 'team'. |
No, unreliable with terrible customer service. Repeated broken promises with repair to my PurePower 2000+. |
We just got a new PP+ 1500. So far so good. Like that the fan is a lot quieter vs my old one.
The local distributor (also a friend) said they had been tweaking the designs for a while but the shipping product now is the one to go for. |
The positive comments from owners of the 1050 and 2000 are units built years ago in China and not the newer models they build in Canada. The Chinese quality was better and several reviews of the older units bare this out. It is the units built in the past two years in Canada that have failed over and over again. They are supposed to be upgraded, improved units but seemed to have gone in the other direction. So many other great conditioners out there and they don't need to be AC re-generation designs to sonically improve a system . |
I've been using a Bybee latest-gen unit for a while now and I am VERY impressed and VERY happy!!! |
@Zepher24069
The new PP+ products are no better than the older units, "if" you get one that works, and can deal with PP today. And that is a very BIG "if"!
My 1050 was among the last "Chinese made" PP products, when PP had a good reputation. When PP started to build their own units the quality and reliability went down the drain. Today I would pass on PP. |
I loved what the PP2000 unit did for my system over 3+ years however when it came time to consider upgrade (PP2000+ or PP3000+), it took forever with many broken promises to my dealer with money already paid to PP (by my dealer) to get a demo unit. It was over 8-9 months of frustration. When the unit finally arrived I very enthusiastically paid the overnight shipping to get the "plus" net-gen unit to my home. I powered down the 2000 and put the plus-unit right into the system. From the moment I turned it on (even before other components), a constant and loud buzzing like a hive of bees and other noises began to emanate from my speakers. Taken the plus-unit out and putting the PP2000 resolved the issue. In many iterations with PP, I was told that it must be my system, my grounding problem, etc.....and that all the units were perfect in design and fully tested. I subsequently talked with 2 other PP users who tried the plus-units with similar results, one with a digital system, the other with an analog system. There seemed to be no attempt by PP to realize they might have a design issue with the battery recharge or other circuit of some other poorly performing aspect compared to their prior generation of products. After months of trying to resolve the issue, get some appreciation that the plus-unit caused issues that the PP2000s did not, I gave up....it's a shame really as the PP2000 did wonders for my system for many years. The upside is that I discovered a superior product in my travels/auditions and since getting the Bybee v3, I'm as done as I know how to be with the topic of conditioners... |
One addendum to my ealier comments; I stated the Dimitri was the best sounding Power Conditioner I have heard. I was humbled last night at the AZ Audio club meeting comparing PC's next to each other. Four conditioners competed and 35 members listened and voted. Winner? Isotech Sigmas; even I had to admit this. Second in the battle, the Synergistic Research Tesla Powercell; Third, my beloved Dimitri and last by a huge margin determined by voting; the Audience 12T. Thought you other audiophiles might be interested in knowing this so you all can demonstrate and compare units before purchasing. |
I have a PP1050 and it has performed flawlessly for 5 years, and makes a huge improvement in unvarying sound quality.
However it took 3 months to get it first shipped to me from the factory, with excuses and delays.
I may be lucky! Hope it never needs service. |
I have a PP1050 which I have used flawlessly for 4+ years. I love it. Again, maybe I am lucky or there is something about the 1050? Three years ago I sent it to Canada for an upgrade which was performed in a timely matter at what I thought was a really good price. |
I sold my PP2000 sometime ago and no longer have to deal with them. I'm very happy with both the fact that I now have superior results with a Bybee 3.0 unit and the fact that I no longer have to deal with all manner of delays, b.s. and lies in conversations with a vendor I'm trying to deal with for an upgrade path. |
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This company is unethical and Richard the biggest con artist I have ever met in my life. They will tell the sob story of fighting a battle to rescue their company back from the Chinese manufacturers that built their unit in China and how they are back in Canada building the units. Mine was DOA and I had to ship it back to Canada to fix! When returned to me the unit introduced noise into my system. Richard told me it was the ground in my home. I told him I wanted to return it for a refund, but he assured me they were working on a fix. My friend and I both bought them at the same time and he too experienced the noise. We believed Richard; that a fix would occur but it never did. In December 2013, Richard called my local dealer and assured him we would get a brand new, upgraded unit by the end of January 2014 or a refund. He send a FedEx tag to pick up mine and my friend's unit to ship to CES to be used by manufacturers. We never received the new units or a refund. He told my dealer the check was in the mail and no check ever arrived. He has consistently said we are next on the list for a replacement unit and none has ever arrived. This guy is a flat out crook and this company cannot be trusted and deserved to go out of business. I tried to file a complaint on the Ontario BBB but could not get on the web site to do so. Can someone post the link to get on? I filed a complaint in the New York where they ship the U.S. market units and it just was closed after several months as unresolved. I replaced this unit with a Running Springs Audio Dimitri and while not an AC re-generator, it is far superior sonically. I couldn't be happier with the Dimitri; best I have ever heard and it was compared against the Audience and Synergistic Research |
they are not honest, my unit is wrong and i'm waiting from many months!! |
Good Products - Crook Company!
Really too bad.
I have a PP 1050 that has performed perfectly, with great results, for 5 years. |
Another happy PurePower user, a 1050. I upgraded to a Bybee V2 recently, but I bought the 1050 second hand and used it for about 5 years, without any trouble and it clearly benefited ny system. Maybe I was just lucky. |
Kskishore,
When you get a chance, please go to the Better Business Bureau of Ontario and log in a complaint. It doesn't take too long. I think we need to keep pressure every way possible to keep these guys to be honest, and true to their words.
FrankC |
Ditto- I have been in touch with Richard and Damian who have consistently mentioned (when I call) that they would take care and shipment was imminent but they have NEVER called back or emailed me back or provided any update as promised.
They seem to be 'nice guys' but terrible liars or business people with very poor flow of information or concept of customer service.
I would not recommend Purepower at this stage to anyone.
This has been going on for over 2 years.
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My experience was worse than yours.
Avoid Purepower! |
That is really a shame that this company has such a long history of this.
I guess though with a name like Damian that should tell us something... |
Just to keep this discussion alive as PP has been actively marketing their new products lately. I have the PP2000 with the same problem. After discussing with Damian back in July 2012 on the phone, he issued an RMA for me to send the unit back for repair. It's been over 18 months. Whenever I called and e-mailed, if I get a response, either Damian or his father Richard would give me a bogus story that my unit is next on the list, they are upgrading the inside to a newer model, they are pulling a unit off the production line to send to me, etc. I have requested numerous times for them to send the unit back to me as-is at my expense, or allow me to trade it in for a new unit with cash but to no avail.
I've just filed a complaint with the Ontario Consumer Agency, but I am not hopeful that it will get me anywhere. Buyer beware.
FrankC |
I bought 2 PurePower 1050s from the local dealer a while back. Both are still running so fingers crossed. |
Aressiu,
exactly the same happened to my 700 unit. I switched it on, heard a bang. After that it smelled like burned electronics. A few times Damian responded to my mails. They don't make the 700 boards anymore and he is looking for a solution. called them once but Damian was not available.
Will have to give them a few more calls I guess. the 1050 boards can be made to fit inside the 700 unit. question is do they have spare boards??
2 years ago the unit failed after a thunder storm (not the units fault). After a long wait I got new boards and unit was working fine ever since. They told me they get the boards from a manufacturer in Taiwan. |
Well, Brf I'd agree, IF it wasn't for other similar threads, and that still doesn't account for the delays and particularly the lack of communication on PurePower's part. |
That's the problem when you do not send the entire unit back. The Company has no way to testing the unit before sending it back to the customer. |
That's good to know Foster_9. You appear to be one of the lucky ones.
This is the third thread I have seen on Audiogon about PurePower's reliability and/or customer service.
Buyer beware. |
I have dealt with Purepower and received good customer service from them. Have a 1050 and no problems with reliability. |
This is not the first post of this sort about Purepower Canada's reliability or support. A shame. |
