2. amps-preamps
  3. 160627-89618

Proud Harbeth p3esr owner - need help tweaking/troubleshooting

Due to the pandemic I catch myself spending more time in my outdoor office space - small 14.5x7.5 feet room with glass windows on two adjacent walls - where the speaker are. It's got wood floors and a 7.5 feet ceiling. The other half has a large desk and a bookshelf. Since it's my private space I have decided to build 'my dream' audio system - different from my main listening room/home theater. I listen to all genres of music from 80's and 90's pop, Folk, Jazz, Electronic, Classic Rock and Latin. No hard Rock or headbangers music.

In my mid-40's and enjoying the audio hobby for decades now, I like my music warm, with non-fatigue listening for hours, where frequency tones are balanced, yet detailed without the grain and glare of vocal peaks or highs, yet presenting instrument separation. I want to enjoy the music. I took the leap, and purchased a pair of Harbeth p3esr. Also, purchased Croft Phone Integrated amplifier to pair with the speakers. Had a Metrum Onyx DAC at home already hooked to my Roon core. Using Morrow Audio MA1 RCA interconnects that were laying around, with Belden speaker wires also on hand. Speakers are on heavy 26 inch stands.

I have around 60 hours on the Croft integrated and Harbeth p3esr so far, but have not found the audio nirvana moment yet. I find the music at times (on certain songs) harsh. It's usually when multiple instruments are played together with sharp pitched vocals. Don't get me wrong - Emma Guzman - Woman the instrument separation and vocals are dreamy, The Game of Love by Daft Punk, the robotic vocals are life like with emotions - but 40 seconds into Wrong Girl by Lindsay Ell and you'll hear her vocals peak and want to run to lower the Croft integrated manual volume knob towards to noon mark (starting point). 

Speaking of which, the Croft Phono Integrated, being a superb hybrid amp, has a lot of gain and is immediate sounding. At 1 o'clock position (noon being the starting point), the sound is comfortable listening at 70db. Turning the volume knob to 2 o'clock it's gets loud to 80db + and 3 o'clock is where you want to turn it down. Never distortion - but enough sweetness and finesse to drive the p3. Loud for the room. 

Metrum DAC has a more or less standard line output level of 2V, and the Croft amp has a relatively sensitive input sensitivity of 250mV. An amp of this sensitivity runs the risk of clipping the voltage waveform before the power stage. Maybe alternative amps have a more relaxed gain structure at the input, sensitive to about a whole Volt. The reason why I am rushing for the volume control as the peas get harsh.

How do I make the famous Harbeth p3esr to sing and show it's true colors of warmth, composure, mature sound, astonishing vocal coming from the diaphragm and the details that it's famous for? How do I listen to hours of different genre music without the need to turn the volume low or move my head up to look at the speakers? Is it the high gain/sensitive Croft Integrated amp or is it the bright Morrow Audio RCA interconnect or maybe the speaker wires? Or maybe the whole set up is a dream and an overkill for the room.

Any feedback by the brilliant minds on this forum with years of experience would be greatly appreciated. With warm regards,

128x128ghulamr
Post removed 
ghulamr's avatar
ghulamr OP
104 posts
 
Hi all, 

a bit of an update. It's been 13 days since I have owned the Croft Integrated and maybe I have put in around 160+ hour on it. The sound has changed drastically from when I first bought the amp. The sudden change I noticed yesterday, and since then have played around 8 hours to make sure it's not something I am imagining. It's a lot warmer, relaxed, fuller, sweeter with all the details and vocals that really bring out the best in the Harbeth p3. Did I mention relaxed and composed. 

First I thought there is some other setting in Roon or somewhere else that is causing the change in sound. It's night and day difference. To test I played a few tracks that had those tonal peaks that were unbearable before and now they sound completely relaxed and fuller. Low volume setting that I listen on this amp is fantastic. I am also getting adjusted to the high gain setting as I think turning the volume slightly up is less harsh now. Keep in mind this amp would struggle in a large party room setting - I don't think that's what it's designed for. Croft Integrated is a keeper. 

Glad I did not jump on changing the interconnects and speaker cable and let the amp fully burn in. Now I can me more accurate in how I want to further tune the sound and maybe look at cables that provide more air and detail - open up the sound a bit. Need 30 feet of cable run, as the amp and DAC will sit behind my desk with speakers in front. Hopefully I can find a decent speaker cable without breaking the bank. Maybe Kimber Kable 8TC used? 

Thank you all for your patience and holding my hand to audio nirvana.


gerryr1
1 posts
 

Hi,

I have the same issue with the P3ESR speakers.  I’ve had them for over 4 years and tried them with a range of equipment.  Ultimately the same result,  to my ears, and my wife’s, harsh, flat, sharp, fatiguing sound.  Started with kimber 4tc speaker cable, moved on to Chord signature XL, same result.  Can’t listen to my Pink Triangle turntable at all.  Sounds sharp to our ears.  My Aries Auralic Streamer,  and Cyrus new cdt transport connected  to Chord Qutest and to Sugden A21a integrated amp are a lot better with Chord Signature interconnects but are still often harsh.  My listening room is about 4.5x4m, carpeted with curtains and armchair.  The Speakers sounded great in the Hifi shops listening room, which is a large room.  After spending more than the cost of the speakers in upgrades to alleviate the harshness and only partially succeeding I’m going to get new speakers.  I find the Harbeths to my ears are only pleasing for some jazz and acoustic guitar.

Post removed 
mike_in_nc
1,147 posts
 

@gerryr1 >> I have the same issue with the P3ESR speakers.   <<

Unfortunate that you're not getting good sound from your Harbeths. IMO, 23 watts -- no matter how good those watts are -- is not enough for the P3ESR. You may be hearing clipping. I use 200 wpc with mine and experience no harshness.

Also, if only the analog side sounds harsh, you might consider an issue with cartridge and/or setup.

I would expect even the best setup to sound harsh sometimes. That’s because some recordings are innately harsh. If they sound smooth, it’s because the system is rolling them off. But all the time -- that's not the P3ESR signature that I know.

More to discover