I'm not currently a Roon user, and I don't know where it is. But I've been told it can oversample. I think it would be with other DSP settings, rather than specific to the device, but that's just a guess.
Try Google!
Try Google!
Proud Harbeth p3esr owner - need help tweaking/troubleshooting
Due to the pandemic I catch myself spending more time in my outdoor office space - small 14.5x7.5 feet room with glass windows on two adjacent walls - where the speaker are. It's got wood floors and a 7.5 feet ceiling. The other half has a large desk and a bookshelf. Since it's my private space I have decided to build 'my dream' audio system - different from my main listening room/home theater. I listen to all genres of music from 80's and 90's pop, Folk, Jazz, Electronic, Classic Rock and Latin. No hard Rock or headbangers music.
In my mid-40's and enjoying the audio hobby for decades now, I like my music warm, with non-fatigue listening for hours, where frequency tones are balanced, yet detailed without the grain and glare of vocal peaks or highs, yet presenting instrument separation. I want to enjoy the music. I took the leap, and purchased a pair of Harbeth p3esr. Also, purchased Croft Phone Integrated amplifier to pair with the speakers. Had a Metrum Onyx DAC at home already hooked to my Roon core. Using Morrow Audio MA1 RCA interconnects that were laying around, with Belden speaker wires also on hand. Speakers are on heavy 26 inch stands.
I have around 60 hours on the Croft integrated and Harbeth p3esr so far, but have not found the audio nirvana moment yet. I find the music at times (on certain songs) harsh. It's usually when multiple instruments are played together with sharp pitched vocals. Don't get me wrong - Emma Guzman - Woman the instrument separation and vocals are dreamy, The Game of Love by Daft Punk, the robotic vocals are life like with emotions - but 40 seconds into Wrong Girl by Lindsay Ell and you'll hear her vocals peak and want to run to lower the Croft integrated manual volume knob towards to noon mark (starting point).
Speaking of which, the Croft Phono Integrated, being a superb hybrid amp, has a lot of gain and is immediate sounding. At 1 o'clock position (noon being the starting point), the sound is comfortable listening at 70db. Turning the volume knob to 2 o'clock it's gets loud to 80db + and 3 o'clock is where you want to turn it down. Never distortion - but enough sweetness and finesse to drive the p3. Loud for the room.
Metrum DAC has a more or less standard line output level of 2V, and the Croft amp has a relatively sensitive input sensitivity of 250mV. An amp of this sensitivity runs the risk of clipping the voltage waveform before the power stage. Maybe alternative amps have a more relaxed gain structure at the input, sensitive to about a whole Volt. The reason why I am rushing for the volume control as the peas get harsh.
How do I make the famous Harbeth p3esr to sing and show it's true colors of warmth, composure, mature sound, astonishing vocal coming from the diaphragm and the details that it's famous for? How do I listen to hours of different genre music without the need to turn the volume low or move my head up to look at the speakers? Is it the high gain/sensitive Croft Integrated amp or is it the bright Morrow Audio RCA interconnect or maybe the speaker wires? Or maybe the whole set up is a dream and an overkill for the room.
Any feedback by the brilliant minds on this forum with years of experience would be greatly appreciated. With warm regards,
In my mid-40's and enjoying the audio hobby for decades now, I like my music warm, with non-fatigue listening for hours, where frequency tones are balanced, yet detailed without the grain and glare of vocal peaks or highs, yet presenting instrument separation. I want to enjoy the music. I took the leap, and purchased a pair of Harbeth p3esr. Also, purchased Croft Phone Integrated amplifier to pair with the speakers. Had a Metrum Onyx DAC at home already hooked to my Roon core. Using Morrow Audio MA1 RCA interconnects that were laying around, with Belden speaker wires also on hand. Speakers are on heavy 26 inch stands.
I have around 60 hours on the Croft integrated and Harbeth p3esr so far, but have not found the audio nirvana moment yet. I find the music at times (on certain songs) harsh. It's usually when multiple instruments are played together with sharp pitched vocals. Don't get me wrong - Emma Guzman - Woman the instrument separation and vocals are dreamy, The Game of Love by Daft Punk, the robotic vocals are life like with emotions - but 40 seconds into Wrong Girl by Lindsay Ell and you'll hear her vocals peak and want to run to lower the Croft integrated manual volume knob towards to noon mark (starting point).
Speaking of which, the Croft Phono Integrated, being a superb hybrid amp, has a lot of gain and is immediate sounding. At 1 o'clock position (noon being the starting point), the sound is comfortable listening at 70db. Turning the volume knob to 2 o'clock it's gets loud to 80db + and 3 o'clock is where you want to turn it down. Never distortion - but enough sweetness and finesse to drive the p3. Loud for the room.
Metrum DAC has a more or less standard line output level of 2V, and the Croft amp has a relatively sensitive input sensitivity of 250mV. An amp of this sensitivity runs the risk of clipping the voltage waveform before the power stage. Maybe alternative amps have a more relaxed gain structure at the input, sensitive to about a whole Volt. The reason why I am rushing for the volume control as the peas get harsh.
How do I make the famous Harbeth p3esr to sing and show it's true colors of warmth, composure, mature sound, astonishing vocal coming from the diaphragm and the details that it's famous for? How do I listen to hours of different genre music without the need to turn the volume low or move my head up to look at the speakers? Is it the high gain/sensitive Croft Integrated amp or is it the bright Morrow Audio RCA interconnect or maybe the speaker wires? Or maybe the whole set up is a dream and an overkill for the room.
Any feedback by the brilliant minds on this forum with years of experience would be greatly appreciated. With warm regards,
Showing 6 responses by mike_in_nc
I don’t know your DAC, nor the Croft, but I do have a pair of P3ESR, so I was curious about your dilemma. I don’t think it’s the wires. Wires are always the LAST place I’d look, and then only for very subtle changes. So please, don’t go spending a bundle on wires! Have you looked at the Stereophile review of the Croft? The phono stage is quite rolled off, by about 3 dB at 10 kHz. That in itself may not be objectionable, but it will make a sharp contrast with playing CDs, as the line stage alone will be considerably brighter than when used with the phono amp and RIAA circuit. I suspected from your post that it was CD playback bothering you, and if so, that may be one reason. If I understand correctly that it’s CD playback that is bothering you, you might try a Schiit Loki equalizer to take down the treble of CDs to match the FR of your phono setup. Some owners like a powerful amp with their P3ESR, but since I haven’t tried a low-powered one, I can’t guess whether that might contribute to what you hear. Of course, all that is a guess. I haven’t heard your system! My sense of the P3ESR is that they are not plush sounding, but revealing and musical without harshness. I’m using them with a Classe CP-800 DAC-preamp and a Marsh Sound Design A400s amp. I listen at relatively low levels. |
Glad to hear it! I’m using 200/330 wpc into 8/4 ohms. Great sound! You might experiment with something like the Benchmark AHB-2 amp. Compact and superb by all accounts. Earlier, I suggested upsampling in Roon. Here’s the link. |
@gerryr1 >> I have the same issue with the P3ESR speakers. << Unfortunate that you're not getting good sound from your Harbeths. IMO, 23 watts -- no matter how good those watts are -- is not enough for the P3ESR. You may be hearing clipping. I use 200 wpc with mine and experience no harshness. Also, if only the analog side sounds harsh, you might consider an issue with cartridge and/or setup. I would expect even the best setup to sound harsh sometimes. That’s because some recordings are innately harsh. If they sound smooth, it’s because the system is rolling them off. But all the time -- that's not the P3ESR signature that I know. |