William, while in the case of Canterbury's, or larger in the Prestige line, in most cases they are seen near the back wall. This would suggest that they are designed with that in mind.
In my case, my 150 liter (16" W X 20" D X 48" H) enclosures are out into the room, with the back corner of the speaker about 60" from the wall. I found this placement on Cardas' site, it's a worthwhile read, and this placement has worked out well for me.
The Canterburys are most likely too large to sit this far into your room, unless it is particulatly cavernous.
Have fun, you've got a lot of great listening in front of you.
Regards,
Dan |
Congratulations on a very wise purchase! My Canterbury SE's are similarly positioned to your Quads and sound excellent.
One of my concerns was easy access to the back because I change speaker cable once in a while. I assume yours are new,
so don't be put off if they are coarse in the midrange for the
first 20 to 100 hours, breaking in. Then they are as good as
your equipment permits... Enjoy! |
William, congrats on your choice.
Possibly the best thing you could do is buy Jim Smith's book, "Get Better Sound" which includes extensive set up advice. Coincidently after writing that Jim bought a pair of Canterburys for his own system.
Also Dan, I've read many helpful comment from you regarding Tannoys, but since you refer to the "back wall", what do you call the wall behind yourself when listening? |
Don't put them against the wall. The manual even advises against this. You'll see Tannoy speakers in wacky locations (like right up against the wall) in ad/product photos, but that's silly. Your listed distances sound like a reasonable starting point, though with a 14' front wall you'll observe that the bulk of the speakers themselves will start cutting into your optimal spacing. It's still quite workable, though. You were wise to scale back from the Westminster in this case!
I like a nice midfield triangle myself (6.5-7' x 8-9' x 8-9'), with a healthy dose of toe-in -- close, but not *quite* directly pointed at the ears, and certainly not crossing over in front of me (a very questionable manual recommendation there).
The tweeter height is an issue with the Canterbury SE. Get pedestal stands or pucks to tilt them up. Perhaps the GR has more treble energy to allow for the right amount of off-axis energy, but then that would become dependent on seating distance -- so hopefully the GR also sounds best with tweeters and ears level, and it remains up to us to achieve that. |
Raising Canterburys -
A friend with Canterburys was advised by Jim Smith to experiment elevating them and found that did improve upper frequency info. Pay attention to Mulveling! |
Thank you guys so much for you thoughtful insight. I certainly is great to have such a fine community to help support our fine hobby.
So sounds like a good starting point will be to position them in the place the Quads were and go from there, along with elevation to reposition the highs to about ear level. Maybe I will fashion a stubby-stand for them to elevate them - maybe like a sealed furniture grade box to sit them on and fill with sand or some other mass filler.
As far as wiring goes -- should I connect my cable to the bass inputs and then use jumper to go to the high input /or/ connect my cables to the high inputs and jump to the bass inputs /or/ should I biwire? Now, I have not biwired before -- if bewaring is the proper and best way to do it -- would I just use two cables and connect both to the 'only' outs on the amps and then the other ends to the highs and bass on the speakers (like a 'Y')? Does doing this change the ohm resistance that the amp sees??? |
Congratulations for not following typical audio herd mentality and choosing something you feel will deliver music. They will!
First rule: NO RULES!
Distance from the rear wall will depend on where you find your preferred listening position after experimentation, where the speaker ends up to get the best bass in your room, how far apart you can get away with and still like the imaging, and other sonic factors you note.
Start with the speakers where ever you want, you'll be moving them anyway just to test your reaction to the sound at different positions. Start with your last speakers were, but do not be afraid to move them around, marking each position and making notes about how you felt about the sound in that position.
Remember, the woofers will change a lot during break-in, so you might have to revisit prior positions. Likely you will very quickly find sonically "acceptable" positions quickly, so you will be enjoying music while testing the different possible positions. Don't rush it, enjoy the sound and don't be afraid to leave them in acceptable positions for a few days before you go onto the next location. This will make differences easier to hear.
Don't forget toe in: you can tune the upper end this way. If they are too soft aim them more at your ears, if they are too present toe them out so they fire at a position behind you.
Enjoy! |
I wire to the tweeter inputs and use the Tannoy jumpers to the bass inputs. Originally I tried biwiring and did not find it any better. |
I agree with all the other posts, and backup Kiddman response. I recently purchased the Canterbury GR and am going through the same process as you. My issue (?) in the end was with a "hot" tweeter, not a soft one. I did not and will not be lifting them so the tweeter is at ear level at this time.......not if it makes it hotter!
I have the units toed in just a hair to help cool the top end as well...in other words not pointed at my ears or just off the ears....too much! Again, I have them pointing straight ahead with slight toe-in.
With speaker wire, definately attach to the HF and jumper to the bass. I tried both at first, liked the HF best then, and recently, tried the other way around again and it was not even close, stay with speaker wire on HF, jumper to bass. Another note on speaker cable. I have heard that the Sablon biwire is phenominal on the Tannoy, and a great price as well. I am using Stealth V10 right now and believe that to be a reason for my hot tweeter. As soon as I can move the the Sablon I will be doing so.
I also found that adjusting the ports cleaned up and tuned the bass nicely. With respect to the adjustable high end, I have not had much luck playing with the two adjustments on the front of the speaker! I have played with them lots and the change seems to be minor! They do not cool my top end! The only thing that cools my top end is leaving the front panels on. This is the only speaker I have experienced "better" sound with the covers on. However,I strongly disagree with leaving them on while playing. I am sure the engineers did not design them with cloth in front of them for listening tests. If you have copper speaker wire I would love to hear how your system is working with the GR. I think when I get these fine tuned it's going to be awesome, as I have already had some peaks into what they can do on some of my material. |
Bullot, I know that Jim Smith owns Tannoy speakers, and I think they are the Caterbury model. Perhaps you can do a search for Jim on the net and contact him with set up questions. I have found him to be extremely knowledgeable and willing to offer advice. |
Yeah thanks Peterayer, a good suggestion I'm sure! I know he has written a well received book on such, and I have seen his system in pics! Think I will do just that. |
Picked up some custom made Sablon speaker cable with ground wire, from Mark Cole. Absolutely love the cable. As far as speaker cable goes, as long as I have the Tannoy, I can't see changing these unless Sablon has an ungrade. This cable offers everything my Stealth V10 did, and more.......better separation and soundstage, drums more real, cymbals and voice are wonderful. |
I have set my Canterburys 1m from the wall, slightly turned in and pointing slightly down. Distance from the rear wall was chosen because of the bass and room interaction. I tried their ST200 and it was a big upgrade on the SE. The newer GR has a better top end but i am sure the super tweeter would still improve them.It may also cure the need to raise them too. Has anyone tried? I bi-wire mine although this is because of my experiance with other speakers and not the Tannoys. I found that setting up these speakers were a little special. Because they are so wide they seem to create their own back wall and dont act the same way as normal speakers.Love them!! |
Great speakers. congrats! Happy listening! |
*
I elevated my Canterburys not for tweeter performance, but for overall Dynamics, Presence and Tone - greater musical involvement.
They sound less boxy and more like music. IMO, of course.
FWIW - most recently I had a client listen during a RoomPlay Reference session and he (as others have also done) pronounced it the best sound he ever heard in over 35 years of listening. His speakers cost more than my entire system...
Best,
Jim Smith
* |
Jim, what amps are you running on your Tannoys? |
Arthur,
I started out with Viva Auroras. Moved to The LARS Type II with 300B-XLS.
Now use ASR Emitter II Exclusive Version Blue -
http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=3109 |
Look up for Sumiko setup in the web. It's a very interesting method for positioning your speakers in the room and the results, after some trials and errors, is great. My LS 50s are sound better than ever. |
I ran across this post and used some of your ideas here in 2019. Does anyone care to update your previous posts. Using Kensington GR’s with CJ Tube amps (Premier 12’s) I just redid my position of them using the Cardas Speaker placement calculator and it is a completely different experience; in a good way. It opened up the field, has them syncing to my ears in a much more pleasing and holographic way. Unless I am wrong it has made them disappear. Please feel free to update me on your set up including the Sablon speaker cables you felt you might use. |
I upgraded from Canterbury SE to GR, and the latter definitely has more treble energy & extension, which I felt was a bit lacking in the SE (with controls set to "flat") - it’s more balanced, more detailed, and simply a better speaker. I enjoy them more. I didn’t change my speaker positioning or toe-in, and still use the tilting trick, for which I found that HRS Nimbus spacers (mix of 0.8" and 1.3" spacers) look great with the stock feet! I wouldn’t advise mixing the GR with any bright gear, but that’s fine.
I’m somewhat interested in the new super tweeters, but don’t feel like anything is lacking here. I tried the old ST100B/ST200 and felt that they’re just not good enough for the improved GR models.
I really liked my old Kensington SE, so I bet your GR are the bomb, @jahatl513!
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