Msf - FWIW - sonically I don't think there is a difference between the 80.2 and 80.3, which means there would be no audible advantage in waiting for a 5509. Instead, since this is a "shot", you might pick up an 80.2 used at a lower price, or maybe even refurbished with a warranty. Either way, you would save money over a new 5509, IMHO. |
I am here.
It is impossible for me to know how the 80.2/3 would sound compared to anyone's analog 2 channel setup, even my own (since it is in a different house). The Carys have all had excellent analog sound but, imho, fail as adequate digital MCH audio processors for a number of reasons. Since almost all of my listening is digital MCH, I prefer the Integra and, if it doesn't float your boat for stereo analog, get a good 2 channel preamp (with an HT bypass), like a Cary, for that. |
That's interesting. I just got rid of a Cary 11 (not an 11A) which to me was wonderful in 2 channel. I too am wondering how it would compare. It looks like the Onkyo PR SC5509 (Integra DHC 80.3 clone) is going to be released in the US, so I may just pick that up and give it a shot. |
To be honest, I have no idea how the 2-channel from my 80.2 sounds. I also have no desire to try it, unless it would help you guys out, but then again it gets very subjective, so not sure it would do any good.
The obvious answer is that it would depend upon what you were comparing it to. My 2-channel set-up is pretty world-class, so the 80.2 was never going to do anything but movies, which is really excels at. The presence of 32-bit DACs in the 80.2 could give your Cary 11a a tough time. I think the new 12 has 32bit DACs, but not the 11. Yes, they do make an audible difference, at least to me. |
Mfs, that's a question of interest to me as well. Kal seems to have dropped this thread or he is preoccupied. An 80.2/3 would simplify my setup. I supplement a Cary 11a with a DVDO Edge for video processing and a Velodyne SMS-1 for bass managing a pair of HGS-15 subs. An 80.2/3 could do all those functions IF it sounded as good as the Cary 11a, but that's a big if I'd like answered.
I wish there were a way to try an 80.2/3 in my setup before I buy aside from the hassle of the buy, try, then sell route that some Audiogon posters seem to use.
db |
How is the 2 channel from the 80.2 compared to your dedicated 2 channel setup (assuming you have tried it of course)? |
BTW - plenty of bass from the 5 speakers, run as "full". Floor vibrates WITHOUT the SUB!! Easily able to supplement with low-bass from sub hooked up to 2-channel preamp as needed. Best of both worlds, w/o switches or brain damage. |
Installed the Integra DHC-80.2 to replace my DTC-9.8. Money well spent. The sound is noticeably better (actually pretty amazing) as well as the room calibration/steering by the Audyssey 32 and other advanced DACs, etc.. Its close to a night and day difference - even greater than I had expected. Thanks all for your assistance.
I'm still using the video out of the Oppo, which is quite nice, although I'll probably experiment as time goes on with the 80.2 video. For now, couldn't ask for a better solution - had no idea this was such a no-brainer until doing the upgrade... :-) |
Partial correction. I just spoke with Oppo and they told me that if the player's HDMI audio output is on and the prepro does not accept a DSD signal, then the player automatically converts DSD to PCM. Therefore, if you do not turn off the hdmi audio in the Oppo, the analog signal that outputs the player will be a DSD converted to PCM and then to analog. |
You're right, Kal, I made a mistake. Effectively the Oppo converts the DSD internally and then send an analog signal to its analog outputs. The only thing that could bother you a little is that if your Oppo’s hdmi audio output is turned on and your prepro does not decode dsd, you will read in the Oppo screen that the player is sending a pcm signal instead of dsd. According to Oppo, the point is that the player will be sending both: converted dsd into analog through its analog connections and pcm through its hdmi (and pcm just because my prepro –Anthem D2V- does not convert dsd). |
Oppo has been very helpful. To achieve bass management playing SACDs through my Cary 11a, I need to use analog output and set the speakers to small in the Oppo setup menu. In that configuration, the Oppo can provide bass management.
I think, but am not sure, that Kal may have answered my question. I assume he meant that the 80.2/3 can direct LF to the subs even with DSD that does not carry bass management information or with LPCM that does.
Kal, is the audio quality of the 80.2/3 good enough to make using it with a preamp or DAC passthrough moot? My impression was that the audio quality of the 80.1 was not in the same league with the Cary 11a, but there were confounding factors (different setup) in my audition of the 80.1.
db |
Wait a minute,Ridom. You get only analog from the analog output, not PCM and not DSD.
If you want DSD, you use a prepro (like the 80.2/3) that can accept DSD. It can then do Audyssey/Bass Management although it will convert the DSD to PCM for that purpose. The 80.2/3 can provide this for both DSD and PCM sources. |
I would check out the NAD T175HD, M15, or the new T187. I think they are considered one of the better prepros for audio quality. |
The Oppos provide LPCM only if you are using HDMI audio output. If you want DSD coming from them you need to turn off HDMI audio output and send the signal through the analog multichannel connection (I don't know if in stereo is also the same). Normally the prepros (at least my Anthem and also the Integras) do not apply room correction or bass management to an analog signal unless they convert it again to digital. So you have to rely on SACD on the Oppo bass management. |
The Oppo 93 & 95 offer either DSD or LPCM output for SACDs, both at 88.2 kHz. Presumably LPCM provides bass management, but my Cary 11a treats 88.2 kHz as DSD even if the output is LPCM, and provides no bass management. Does the Integra 80.3 distinguish between 88.2 kHz DSD and LPCM from an Oppo player so it can provide bass management with SACDs?
db |
I thought so. I handed my 9.8 on to a needy friend.
Kal |
I too have a DTC-9.8 and am thinking of upgrading to a 80.2. Please let us know if you think the difference was worth the upgrade. |
Ordered 80.2 today - will hopefully have it by Friday. Was getting a headache trying to reinvent the wheel... :-) Thanks all for your assistance. |
I'm probably just going to run the sub through my 2-channel pre to avoid having to set my full-size front and rear speakers to "small" in the Integra. Seems like the path of least resistance and brain damage; also don't have to worry about changing sub settings, etc. My fronts have strong bass and the last thing I want is for 40-100hz to be handled by the sub instead (this inadvertently happened several years ago for 6 months and drove me crazy in 2-channel until I figured out what was going on)
Thanks all for your help - I'll probably also pick up an 80.2 or 80.3 sometime soon. Prefer new w/warranty. |
Ridom - good idea. That was 1 of the things I was going to investigate. My sub is a Velo DD-15+ and I'm pretty sure it has that capability. Thanks again. |
There are subwoofers like Rythmik or MLogan that accept two simultaneous connections, an LFE from the prepro and a line level from the pre. You will need two outputs from your stereo pre; one for your mains and the other for the sub. There are other solutions, like the one offered by SVS, which put the sub between your pre and your mains. Check their websites.
Regarding the MX121, did Mc people tell which D/As are they using? |
I agree about the switches - back to basics and trust my ears - that has always worked well for me... :-) |
I think that obsessing over switches is silly.
The MX121 was not demonstrated but was on display. It will have MultEQ XT32.
Kal |
It sounds like I would still have the same subwoofer issue with the 80.2/3, absent some sort of a switch. Not sure who makes reasonably-priced audiophile quality switches, but I guess that would be my first step? |
Hi
Did anybody hear the new Mcintosh MX121? It is supposed to cost 6k, to come with Audyssey (don't know if the 32 version) and was presented at CES. |
Nope. I am suggesting you take advantage of the superior analog audio of the newer models in lieu of your more complex configuration. |
Kal- Thanks very much for your responses.
Would I not have this same bass configuration issue with the 80.2/3? I hope you are saying my sub will be recognized despite not being directly connected to the Integra by the 80.2/3.? |
1. You cannot "just carry over the sub settings manually when I re-connect the sub to my 2-channel preamp" because the new configuration will affect the overall transfer function due to whatever filters are in place in the the latter.
2. Da capo: Get the 80.2/3 or the 5508.
Kal |
I'm not a fan of any sort of "switches" in an audio chain - any suggestions? My theory was to just carry over the sub settings manually when I re-connect the sub to my 2-channel preamp. Thanks.
Also, did you see anything new under $5K that competes with the Integra/Onkyo? I've also been looking at used Theta Casablanca IIIs, but that seems to be several levels more intense than I currently want to deal with for HT. There are also way more variables and options than I really want to deal with, unless there is some way to simplify all this. |
I am not sure that would work. What you might consider is a switch that would connect it to the 2-channel preamp for stereo and the Integra for MCH.
Kal |
An issue with the Audyssey is that it won't recognize my sub unless it is directly attached to the Integra. Since it is hooked up to my 2-channel audio preamp, which is in turn connected to the Integra, its not being recognized. I suppose I could just hook it directly to the Integra for calibration pruposes? |
thanks - that's exactly what I thought... |
Fplanner2010-
Your dealer is misinformed. None of the Integras will digitize the MCH analog inputs and, therefore, none will be able to apply Audyssey to that input. Besides, you would loose any of the advantages of the Oppo analog output by redigitizing it.
Kal |
Fplanner2010, my Onkyo Pro processor display shows Multichannel Direct but it won't show Audyysey. I am running analogue with Oppo 95. I guess it's not possible.
Regards Bacardi |
Kal-
An Integra dealer told me I could run analog outs from my Oppo into my 9.8 and still not lose Audyssey. I tried to do this yesterday but couldn't get the Integra into multichannel mode to accept the Oppo signal. Integra was not much help either. Common sense tells me it won't work, but I need to at least try it.
Also, any new HT developments out of CES related to this thread?
Thanks. |
Thank you Kal, I believe you saved me 500 dollars . |
Yes. I prefer to use HDMI. The difference between all analog (via the 80.2) and via HDMI are small. OTOH, the ability to use the 80.2's DSP (including roomEQ) makes for a substantive advantage over the all-analog path.
Kal |
Kal
Are you saying with a integra 80.2 or .3 and an oppo 95 music listening is still better using hdmi rather than analogue outputs.
I am currently using a 9.8 and thought about upgrading to 80.2 and oppo 95 .
Dont know if the 500 dollar increase is justified 93 to 95 if hdmi and 9.8 or 80.2 is used foe processing
I will use for music and home theater |
Thanks. Enjoy CES - I'll be curious to see what's on the horizon. |
I cannot predict what will turn up at CES but it is less than a week away and the bloggers will reveal all rapidly. In general, though, the $5-10K processor do not offer more features.
Kal
P.S.: No need for email as this is better discussed out in the open. ;-) |
Thanks Kal - OK, well that makes 2 significant differences!! BTW, I sent you an e-mail.... :-) Whether it makes sense to look at $5-10K (after CES, of course) given my limited use for just AUDIO of movies only? Seems like paying for features (like video, 9.1, etc.) that I just don't need, but I could be wrong.... Any suggestions? |
OTOH, the 80.2 does sound better than the 9.8.
Kal |
Is that a significant difference? IMHO, the advance to MultEQ XT32 is a significant difference.
Kal |
NewsFlash - Just discovered the DACs in the 9.8 are only 192/24, while those in the 80.2 and 80.3 are 192/32. Unfortunately, that is enough of a difference for me to reconsider upgrading now, rather than later. So much for my best laid plans.... |
Since you've already got a McCormack piece, I would pick up the MAP-1, used, here to try. You also might try giving Steve a call - he's always been very proactive in helping owners of his gear. |
I believe it sounds very good, but I don't know how it stacks up against a Bel Canto or Parasound P7, or even a McCormack. The Integra is made by a mass consumer product company as opposed to the above. I realize that the Integras, Panasonic, and other similiar situated companies once in awhile come out with awesome products then lapse back to mediocrity. |
I am familiar with it, on paper, because I was considering getting one. Never heard one. |
Kal, the Integra Research RDC-7.1 was a surround pre-processor that was modular in design. One could order the unit based on which features chosen and a card with those features plugged in. An example was having an extra set of 7.1 inputs. It was designed with BAT and had the Apogee technology from its Ben unit for lowing of jitter. |
Wish I could help but I have never heard/used the RDC-7.1. I think it is a pretty rare device.
Kal |
I am going to be that fish who attaches to sharks and eats the leftovers as my post generated one measly reply. Is the analogue section of the Integra Research RDC-7.1 good enough to forgo an upgrade and just use the analogue outputs of the Oppo 95? |
