Great summary!
I had Evo 400 preamp, now with evo 300 hybrid with Genalex 12au7. Slight improvement in highs from stock PL tubes, which sound good to me. For new production, what are your experiences? Are those Apos Ray the best? What about new Horizon from psvane?
Primaluna tube rolling 12AU7 Notes
Hi all, I know a lot of people have Primaluna equipment and play around with tubes. I’ve bought a bunch of 12AU7s from Brent Jesse (highly recommended by the way) and thought my notes on the various ones might be interesting or useful to some of you. These notes apply to just the preamp. I have the EVO400 preamp. Tests were changing out just the inboard 4 (out of 6 total) tubes. Amps were Evo300 monoblocks powering Focal Kanta 3 speakers, mostly Cardas wiring throughout.
GE standard tubes (about $30/pr on Brent’s website when on sale). As he says, “good all arounders” which I agree with. Highs are not as airy as other tubes and bass a but less full. Midrange is good. For the money, especially compared to new tubes, I think they are a tremendous deal. I could gladly live with them, but nonetheless they’re at the bottom of the pile here.
RCA cleartops. These are very interesting. They had the most prominent highs of any of the tubes, and some of the best bass. If I had mild/tame speakers and wanted to liven up the system, I would get these. They’re a bit too much with the Focals. They’re not as refined overall as the Europeans but night and day in terms of vividness compared to the GEs. Nice tubes.
Telefunken ribbed plates. Good airy highs, nice midrange. Very refined overall - comparing these to the GE and RCA is like comparing an aged Bordeaux to a new California merlot (what, you say you like scotch? The RCA are a 10 yr old Isla, the GE a Johnnie Walker red, the Telefunken a 18 yr old Macallan). Here we start getting into a more complete, holistic piece of overall sound, with the most realistic presentation in terms of soundstage and detail. This is subtle, but there. The bass is not as full as the RCA or Amperex.
British…unfair perhaps, but I only have two Mullard long plates and two Brimar here compared together. Very nice, midrange-centric. Refined almost as much as the Telefunken but not as much clarity, probably because the highs are not as prominent. Soundstage excellent like the Telefunken. Less bass than the RCA but more than the Telefunken. The midrange can sound very pretty.
Amperex - same factory (Heerlen) as bugle boy according to Brent but off labels. what sticks out here is an all around good tube - midrange close to Brit’s, highs close to Telefunken, bass better than those two. Not quite as complete/refined as the Telefunken in soundstage and overall presentation but close. These are probably my all around favorites.
For those interested in tube rolling, I would recommend it if you have a decently revealing system. That said, the tubes that come with the equipment are good. I like the EL34s in the amps very much, in fact of 5 or so other variants I’ve tried they’re at the top 1 or 2, stock. The PL 12AU7s are ok, not great. I think this is where a good opportunity exists for tube rolling, especially in the preamp. I’ve tried rolling the 12AU7s in the amps and there is some benefit, but perhaps not as big. It can affect the overall palate of the system though, so I’m not discounting it. That is, if a tube has an off flavor to it, it permeates the whole system, so it’s good to get one you enjoy. I’ve had good luck with Radiotechnique and GE military both from Upscale for the amps.
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as the stated on the page, @noromance, thats copied and pasted from brent jessee's website https://www.audiotubes.com/12au7.htm |
I have the following tubes used in my Rogue RP-1: Brimar CV4003 from Upscale Telefunken Medical red tips from Brent Siemens nickel / silver plate from eBay J&J stock tubes The stock J&J are very poor, muddy bass, unclear very unremarkable. My favs are the Brimar’s & the Siemen’s as they are both wonderful in completely different ways. Great rolling.
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Nice summary of brands and house sounds. I concur with a least one minor difference. I found a black plate RCA to be a real surprise performer. My main rig is a Willsenton 23 wpc SET integrated amp. (I know, ChiFi haters, but it stacks up very close against my Cary Audio 300SEI LX-20 running KR 300B XLS super tubes.) The pre stage is a single 12AX7 signal tube followed by a pair of 6SN7 gain stage to a pair of 300b driving 845 output tubes. Speakers include Klipsch Forte IIIs and Focal Aria 926. Source is a fanless silent mini-PC feeding a Denafrips IRIS DDC to a Denafrips Pontus II 12th. Dedicated power line with true earth ground and hospital grade pure grade copper AC outlets. The amp is hot, meaning more than enough power to drive the high-sensitive Klipsch Forte's. Volume pot 1/4 or less, probably only using 2-3 watts. I often swap out the 12AX7 for lower gain 5751s and 12AT7 when listening to the Klipsch. The Focal's handle the full gain 12AX7s just fine. I have the same NOS brands as Jimmy2615 for 12AX7s and 12AT7s. 5751s are GE, Sylvania and RCA. GE = good overall balanced linear sound, nothing distinctively great, nothing distinctively bad. "Workhorse tube," good value. RCA = very warm smooth tube with great detail. Black plate 12AT7 is one of my favorites in the map, particularly with jazz, folk and vocals. Great value for performance. Suprise performer, I paid $12 for it. First place for a relaxing all day non fatiguing listening experience. Sylvania Gold Label 5751 = Like the GE and RCA had a child with the best of both genes. Clean, clear detail with good linearity. Nothing extra special (surprised given reviews I've read), but no shortcomings either. Not as warm as the RCA black plate, but better linearity RFT/VEB Rohrenwerk Neuhaus factory = bright, tight, detailed sound with sparkling treble, forward mids and less bass than others. Mullard (Blackburn) & Brimar British tubes = what everyone else says, warm lush midrange, good bass but not distinctive and rolled off treble. Telefunken ribbed plate and smooth plate = great tubes, linear up and down the frequency range. Detail, and great soundstage, almost like a loudness button turned on from 20 Hz to 20 kHz. That's a compliment, not a dig. Raytheon black plate = Wow, what a great tube. Superb soundstage, warmth and detail with great bass, strong but not forward midrange and clean, clear treble. Like a superhero who can do it all. Second favorite of the bunch, #1 below. Amperex Bugle Boy = Double Wow! Something very, very special about this Holloand factory tube in my amp. Matched the Mullard for warmth in the mids, strong structured bass response and a true sparkle on the treble. Much wider and higher soundstage, superb detail, like a fairy sprinkled Pixi dust in the air. My favorite signal tube. The other thing I've found interesting is the overall sound signature and listening experience is enhanced when matching the signal tube with the gain stage tubes for synergy. I have several NOS brands of 6SN7s and pairing them with a good match signal tube makes a big difference. The match is also dependent on music genre and which speakers are running. A brighter, more detailed, forward signal tube like the Amperex or Raytheon pair well with the warmer, detailed Sylvania house sound. The more relaxed Mullard or RCA goes great with stronger more linear and forward Raytheon gain stage. The best combination for me is either the Bugle Boy or Telefunken paired with Tung Sol mil spec gain stage. It gives me everything, great fast, deep bass, very warm yet clean forward midrange with clear, sparkling treble and both deep and wide soundstage. I'd give the edge to Amperex + Tung Sol by a pin. Now, if I was stranded on a desert island with only one match, I'd probably go with the RCA 12AT7 black plate with a pair of Tung Sol JAN drivers. A smooth, linear non-fatiguing sound signature I could listen to 24/7.
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@cey Yes. The site I referenced do credit Jessee. "Special thanks to Brent Jessee Recording & Supply, Inc.for kindly granting Effectrode permission to reproduce the following material below." |
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