2. amps-preamps
  3. 150008-134308

Preamp for ATCSCM40A

Greetings,
I am about 2 months into a new pair of ATCSCM 40A active speakers. Loving them BTW, and I am wondering if I can do better in regards to the preamp. I love the punchy and fast sound the active speakers make with rock & pop music (80% of my collection) , however it is just a tad upfront and relentless in it’s presentation. Not unpleasant so, just a little bit on the cold / and very accurate side.

So I was after a sound just a little bit smoother - but not too much more smoother/darker than the naim 252. If it has more resolution and a bigger soudstage, then that would be a bonus as well.

The rest of my system is naim audio NDS/555DR streamer/DAC and 252 preamp with Supercap2DR. I am not that unhappy with my naim front end, just wondering if I can perhaps do better with my preamp.
To go to a naim 552 (the next model up) I can not afford to do that now (and possibly forever, as it is a rather expensive preamp). I want to keep my naim NDS/555DR as well, as I just love it.

Some shortlisted preamps I have looked at so far and within my budget were:

PS Audio BHK preamp - (very good, but an odd volume set up from all accounts, weird click noise when using it)

Pass Audio XP-22 - (very good, but the above PS Audio was similar in sound quality - but the Pass Audio has a much better volume control in a recent Stereophile Review)

Mola Mola Makua - (very good and not many negatives)

ATC - SCA2 - (an OK preamp by all accounts and it will clearly match their own active speakers. Just not sure it is smooth enough or very upfront like the SCM40A. Or for that matter good enough compared to others on this list).

I am pretty sure the ACT is a little bit restricted IRT the input signal via the XLR input. Only a input sensitivity of 1V ? So matching the preamp output signal can be tricky to find an ideal match with ? It prefers a lower signal impedence apparently, as the ARC Ref. 6 that I was looking at is a no-go because of a very high output impednace in the XLR of 600ohms. I was told to try for about a 50 ohms or under output from the preamp XLR output when matching with the ATC SCM40A.

Any other suggestions or advice ? Or am I going to be up for a sideways move at best with the preamp suggestions and budget from my above list ?


Any help very much appreciated.

Regards,
Peter
seadog1234
10 responses Add your response
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,778 posts
 
Seadog we are a major Naim dealer we have a ton of experience with Naim gear. First question are you using stock Naim interconnects? 

Second question stock or after market power cords?

We wouldn't change from you components, their is real synergy with Naim streamers and preamps.

Again stock ethernet cable?

One thing that will make the NDS sound signifiganty better would be to add an Innous Zenith to your system. 

We have run our NDX2 direct to the switch played Tidal, and then connected the output of the Zenith via ethernet to the NDX same track being played via Roon into the NDX sounded smoother, more open with a bigger soundstage and a greater sense of flow.

Also a good ethernet cable does make an audible difference, we like the Wireworld Starlight which is pretty reasonably priced. 

You can also upconvert 16/44k to 24 bith 192k streams with Roon again this generally makes the standard Tidal stream  sound much fuller.

Naim interconnects aren't very good, same with their power cords.

So instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water make some changes that will add what you want and you would gain signifgantly. 

Please feel free to contact us these recommendations will improve what you like with you system and eliminate what you don't.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Naim and ATC dealers




seadog1234 OP
6 posts
 
Thank you Troy,

I have Naim Powerlines on all my naim stuff and on both my ATC speakers. Also have naim Superlumina DIN>DIN from NDS > 252 and all naim on naim Fraim as well as a Nordost QB powerboard.

Got a dedicated Ethernet switch with the exact Wireworld Starlight cables you suggested. 

I guess you can really get caught up with “must upgrade all the time” in this hobby. 

Do your rate the ATC electronics at all ? If I was to stray from a naim preamp, then the ATC SCA2 preamp was what I would be interested in. 

But as as you say, naim NDS and 252 are simply superb together.
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,778 posts
 
seadog, the Naim cables hate to say are poor performers, the company makes great equipment but their cables are okay at best.

If you do one thing, replace your power cables going from you 555 PS and the supercap and watch what happens.

We have a client with a set of DR 300/ 555 preamp and the NDS/555 front end and we took out three Naim power line cables and replaced them with 3 Audio Quest Hurricanes and both the client and myself had to pick up our jaws from the floor!

The system was better in every way, the soundstage was bigger, there was more depth, the system's top end was cleaner.

Yes this was a $6k upgrade however, the difference in how much better his system became wasn't subtitle.

Also the Naim interconnects aren't great either. We had Wireworld make us  a custom jumper from a 250Dr to a Nac 282 and that was huge, we are trying to get them to make the five pin ones which connect power supply to preamp, they seem hesitant on the power ones.

We are going to look at Ansuz cabling at they also make Naim cables. 

A cheapie improvement is the Isoacoustics footers placed under each component. 

Do you use any power conditioner or straight to the wall in a Naim suitable strip?

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor
seadog1234 OP
6 posts
 
Troy, all Powerlines connected to a Nordost Qbase 8 outlet powerboard then naim Powerline from that to a wall outlet, no power condition at all.

I’ll try some better power cords when I can. Thank you.
celtic66
1,653 posts
 
ATC SCA 2 is a very good match for the ATC 40As.  I’m a bit late to this found randomly discussion.  That preamp I own, have run with my ATC 40As and it is quite good.  Currently running a Sudgen Masterclass LA-4 which I like marginally better.

The ATC does much right.  Maybe not the imaging King, but then perhaps the ATC 40As are not that either.  It is a very good preamp and scorched both my Manley 300B with Taketsuki tubes and my highly modified Mercury 3 preamp.  

Active speakers love the speed of SS and seem slow with even the best execution of tube preamplification in my experience.

I run WireWorld  Silver Eclipse 8 interconnects from the Sugden to the ATCs.  Hope this helps.
pani
1,219 posts
 
Having used many of the Naim components and also an ATC user for few years. Couple of things I learnt
1. Powerlines are poor stuff. Replace it with Naim standard power cord (the free one) and watch the magic come back.

2. Power conditioners like QBASE spoil the balance of Naim. In fact they are designed so well so as to be used direct to the wall. If one has to use a power line filter, it should be a really good regenerator. I don't know which one. Something like the Stormtank?

3. No audiophile voiced rack please. I even don't like the Fraim a lot. Sometimes they do too much. A simpler Hutter rack just dissappears. 

Basically, IME, these things help you hear the Naim the way it was suppose to sound. ATC will reproduce it faithfully.

If you have to try power cord, check out Audio Note Isis copper mains cable. Smooth and colorless
jjss49's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
jjss49
6,612 posts
 
i suggest an audio research reference series linestage... true balanced hybrid tube circuit

i had great luck with my ref 3 into atc scm20a's
hedwigstheme
134 posts
 
Haven’t heard it but I’d like to hear the Coda 07x with the ATC 40a.
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 


seadog1234 OP
Preamp for ATCSCM40A


Great speaker but yes, can be a bit in your face.

Your ATC’s only need 1v in for full output just before clipping. And most sources today give out over 2v some up to 6v so you don’t need a preamp with any more gain. But you do need one that can handle long interconnects to the speakers.

I suggest looking at a US built Schiit Freya+ as it has very little gain and also nice low output impedance to be able to handle long interconnects, it’s output impedance is a nice low 75ohm in tube or solid state SE mode, and comes with remote, so an ideal candidate.
And in tube mode will take away a bit of the "relentlessness" yet you could still switch to solid state mode for slap in the face rock when needed.

https://www.schiit.com/products/freya-1

Cheers George
vinylvalet
896 posts
 
I agree with those that suggest addressing cordage issues first. I've had uniformly good experience with Wireworld products. I also agree that your best bet is staying within the Naim brand if you decide to upgrade your line stage. With that said, I consider Naim in general to offer poor value in the US.

With my ATC SCM100ASLT speakers, after experimenting with very good tube and solid state components (including ATC, all of which are a good match and offer good value), have settled on the Coda 07x line stage and 06x phono stage. IMHO, anyone considering a Pass purchase should audition Coda as well. Similar but slightly better sound quality at lower cost.

I disagree with the ATC, "in your face", comment. I've had other ATC speakers in my home including the latest revision passive 40s. With the proper gear and careful speaker/listening position placement, I've never experienced this with any ATC speaker, including the very revealing ATC SCM20ASL pro monitors in my recording studio. ATC is no different than any other speaker brand incorrectly used.
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