Fist of all, buying a Supratek is not like buying a product from a "big name" manufacturer where you can expect that every unit produced will be identical and in most respects "flawless" visually. Mick builds each item individually and therefore each of his creations is in some ways unique. Things like sloppy paint jobs (a couple drips) on the piano black finish - or blotches in the varnish have been in my experience, standard equipment. Miscellaneous problems with wiring and solering can also be a part of the product you receive. Chips in the paint from a rough delivery are likely as well.
Mick being a "One Man Shop" is really no excuse for these issues. If anything, his quality should be BETTER as a result. NOT worse!!
Keep in mind that since I received my second preamp, Mick made a lot of changes in the ways he does things. Mick will pay for the repair of your preamps if they are not electrically sound but I don't know what he does if the finish is not up to your expectations. Just know that even with paint drips and smudges, the Supratek is still one of the prettiest preamps available in the world today.
Also, Mick resides in a highly unpopulated area in Western Australia which has nearly no RFI/EMI. When your Supratek with its unsheilded wire arrives in a big US city you may experience buzzing. Your Supratek will not be as quiet when idle as any mainstream electronic gear. This is not the Supratek's strong point. Between it and the NOS tubes you're likely to use with it, you must expect at the very least some microphonics and tube "hiss".
Adding any aftermarket options will cause problems for Mick. He has no way of testing some of the crazy things we consumers come up with but will most likely attempt to do them for you as a service - because he isn't making much money on each unit and needs the business! |
Well let's just hope that Mick can keep up with it all. Very ambitious for a one man shop. I am also very intrigued by what I have read here and elsewhere. I am damn near ready to order the Syrah and I don't mind waiting 3 months but...what is this business about quality control problems, is it prevelant or just isolated? Bwhite, you have been the eloquent spokesman on this thread, could you fill us in on the details? |
Arooj, You weren't kidding!!! Mick has a few surprises for later this year!!
http://www.cantech.net.au/~supra/highpower.html
I wonder what the ticket price will be? |
Well, hats off to all the contributors and especially Bwhite (again), for a fantastic and well-balanced discussion. I reviewed the website a while ago, but thought the goods were too good to be true - looks like we might have a winner here. To make things a little bit more complicated, I see that the designer is coming out with new preamp (the "Grange") and high-power amp (the "Burgandy") designs. Just when I thought the choices would be easy, we get more :) .
Hey, what a great excuse to visit the land down under; the wife gets the beach, the kids see kangaroos, and the old man gets to bring home some nice (heavy) souvenirs.
arooj
NYC |
Jeff is absolutely right! The Supratek (if too many options are added) can be a dog. While the circuit Mick designed is relatively simple, additions like "theater throughput", single box chassis, XLR outputs, remote control, etc. In the early XLR equipped units, Mick used the wrong connectors - and added some kind of transformer which was supposed to boost the XLR output and at the same time lowering gain to accomodate what he thought was the "right" way to do theater throughput. The results were not exactly great. I think Mick has resolved some of the issues but I expect that the more you add to the original specification the more potential you have for problems.
Also, Mick builds all the preamps by hand and as fast as possible which has at times resulted in paint drips, loose/cold solder joints, etc. Much of this trouble happened in a time when Mick was turning orders around in 2 weeks - today Mick has upped the turn around time and I think it's now 3 months.
He has a great product and I hope his current business plan includes much better quality control. Again, I want to reinforce Jeff's comments above. Do some research and talk to Mick about it before you order - or while waiting... :) |
BEWARE OF QUALITY CONTROL PROBLEMS. DO SOME RESEARCH ON THIS!! |
Just ordered my Chardoney today. Can't wait. I just landed a new job today after many months of job search, so this is my well-deserved treat. Hopefully there are good upgrading times ahead.
By the way, has anyone considered (or better yet, listened to) the supratek power amps? Thanks Bwhite and others for sharing info about what looks like a wonderful product. |
That's it!! I think I am going to upgrade to the Cortese! The Chardonnay is so darn good that I must know what the Cortese is capable of!! So if anyone is interested in buying a Chardonnay (black with chrome) let me know and we can work somthing out... No rush because Mick has a long backlog. :( |
I just asked Mick for an extra XLR output on my preamp, he said he will charged an extra $50 because it's more work than a regular RCA output. To me the $50 bucks is pretty much worth it.I can't wait 'till it's done.
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Well, I've jumped on the Supratek train by ordering the Chardonnay with remote. The wait is pretty brutal, but at least allows me to plan way ahead financially! Hopefully, sometime in late July, I'll be sitting down to sweet new sound.
According to Mick, on my model and the Syrah, 4 sets of inputs and 2 sets of outputs are standard. I didn't ask about the tape loop.
Thanks for all the discussion here. It really helped with my decision.
Beezer |
Since the unit is custom made you should be able to specify what you want as far as line inputs. Mine has CD, Aux, FM, Tape Out and Tape In, with 2 RCA outputs and 1 XLR (special request). |
How many line inputs on the Supratek (either the Syrah or the Cortese)? |
Timchen, yes the Supratek preamps have two sets of outputs. You can use them for bi-amping or to run to a dedicated subwoofer. |
Fiddler,
I do not intend to offend you or any decent audiogoners here. Since, I have no way of knowing or hearing this pramp, therefore, out of curiousity, i am looking for insight review this preamp.I may order this preamp, if I can not find Klimo preamp for the momment.
thanks for your advice.
Tim
ps does this pramp provide two set of output postings? for
bi-amping? |
The Supratek preamps are pretty light. Therefore isolation with the usual spikes can be pretty difficult, not to mention the tube microphonics and noise you can experience with a light chassis preamp and a pair of old 6SN7's sitting on a hard surface.
What *I* did was buy three black diamond cones with threaded studs. I removed the copper bottom plate and then I drilled three holes - evenly spaced - & bolted on the studs.
I purchased resonance control material called "dynamat" and covered the inside of the copper bottom plate with it. I also added dynamat to various accessible areas on the inside of the preamp. This stuff limits resonance and helps a great deal when fighting tube harmonics.
With all the dynamat inside the preamp, I'd swear it added 10 pounds or so - but I'd be lucky if it was 2 pounds :)
I sit my Supratek (w/black diamond cones) on a rubber thing I purchased at home depot. I found this rubber thing in the plumbing department. I think it is used to make gaskets for pipes or something. It comes in a 12 x 12 size and fits nicely underneath the Supratek and is virtually invisible. This seems to further decrease resonance and drops the microphonics down even further.
The Supratek works fine with inexpensive power cords. I wouldn't go out of my way to put an Electraglide FatMan on it as the best results seem to come from ordinary cords. I am currently using a Bybee MkII power cord with good results. The Bybee seems to quiet things down a bit without making the preamp sound sterile (like with an Elecraglide) or adding colorations - actually I think its a perfect cord for the Supratek.
You might also try something like the Absolute Power Cord which doesn't "do" much - or Mark Bucksath (the outstanding Ultimate Audio reviewer who got the first glimpse of the Supratek) seems to have had good results with a Discovery power cord. |
Thanks to all for introducing this preamp. There are already comments on tubes, how about hook up suggestions like isolation devices, IC and power cords. Again thanks for the advice. |
Rmml, you're welcome - and CONGRATULATIONS! |
I just got reply from Mick and he will not be adding the pass thru on mine. He also said the job sheet has been done-dropped on my unit so now all I need to do is patiently wait.Bwhite and Slowhand, I just wanted to thank you guys for all the info they are very much appreciated. |
BWhite is right, it is best to order the Supratek stock. Mick is a purist and as such he believes that the more "options" the more the possiblity of degrading the sound. I did not get a remote control on mine, but I did get the XLR's and they work fine. I also got 1 pr. of single ended outputs. Mick said that he had put on the wrong XLR's on a previous preamp, but he assured me that this problem had been corrected. Mine are the correct ones and they work great. Mick was putting a high/low gain switch on the preamp for the line stage because it has a lot of gain (possibly too much for some amps), but he is no longer doing this as the new parafeed design which he started producing with my unit does not need it. It is obvious to me that Mick is always working to improve the sound of the preamp. Mine was supposed to take 3 weeks to finish, but ended up taking close to 12 weeks, because he was working on a new design for the phono stage. The wait may be frustrating, but you will be rewarded with a work of art that is both beautiful to look at and to listen to. |
Rmml, Hopefully by then, I will have had the new remote control installed in my Supratek. Like I said the source of the PC board is a company in Italy - it appears to be the best board available. Once we install and test Mick will find out (since he's paying). I'm sure he will implement the best solution.
If you really want to integrate the Supratek with your home theater, it works well to just run the processor outputs to a set of the Supratek inputs. This is what I have been doing and it works fine. Initially I thought it would be inconvenient but it really doesn't matter since in this configuration the processor is what adjusts the gain - not the Supratek. |
Bwhite, again thanks for the advice, hopefully Mick will not be upset with me for cancelling the pass thru.
With the remote control, Mick said that he is still not sure which remote he will use due to the fact that he was not happy with the last one he used. He assured me though that by the time he gets to start working on my preamp he already have made his decision on which remote to use. |
In my experience ARC preamps are not the be-all end-all of tube equipment in general - (the amps are better than their preamps though). Their preamps are very thin sounding, sterile and can be down right schreechy!
The Supratek shouldn't even be looked at side by side with ARC gear. Yes - it will work well with your ARC amps (or any amp) but... as for preamps, the Supratek has the correct harmonics, tonal balance, and spatial characteristics that a preamp should have (and ARC lacks).
If you like ARC preamps - no-one is going to be able to tell you what you should or should not do because you have already developed your own bias. But given the price of the Supratek, you could very easily give it a try and see fist hand how this single piece of equipment can open new doors and take your system to an entirely new level of performance.
I don't even want to talk about BAT preamps vs. Supratek. |
The preamp comes in single ended ONLY! However Mick will agree to providing XLR outputs (whether it is truly balanced output I do not know - and doubt it). In my experience, Mick does not know which XLR connectors should be used on the OUTPUT side because in my two preamps (and a friends) Mick used the INPUT side connectors as the output... |
I'm confused after reading the above posts does this pre come single ended only or can you get it balanced?
Thanks |
I saw a lot comments about "Deal of the Century". I am very impressed the advertisment. I don't plan to live a Century and only need a equipment for the next 20 years to enjoy some of the music that I like. I have tried to find a proper pre-amp to work well with my current ARC VT-100 and Aerial 10T Speaker for a few weeks. After some research with no upgrade at later time in mind, I came up four pre-amp:
ARC SP-11 MK2, ARC LS-5 MK2+PH3SE, BAT 75SE+ARC PH3SE, ARC SP-16(the newest) but was depressed the news about ARC is looking someone to take over. Anyone who is working on computer industry will fully understand my major concern. Does anyone have some experience on these pre-amp? Is supratek work better than these pre-amp on my current system? I know many of your guys are expert on this subject and willing to take your advice but I still did not see any of hard evidence about how good supratek is such as the equipment review from stereophile. Bwhite, thanks for bringing up the problems that you had with Mike. At least, I know this is not a perfect world. By thw way, I am in the process of ordering one from Mike. Your comments on my audio environments, will be greatly appreciated. |
Smw30yahoocom - The preamp does not come stock with a remote volume control. But it can be ordered. This is a GOOD OPTION. On my first preamp from Mick, he implemented the remote flawlessly!!! The second time around it had a few issues which turned out to be bad boards.
Mick uses the motorized ALPS potentiometers which run smooth and dead quiet.
A local person is working to get my remote control fixed - he had to order a board from Italy to do it. I will report once the work is done. |
Rmml - you're welcome. You might talk to Mick about it. He is pretty stubborn and may try to do the Cinema By-Pass anyway. For instance. My first preamp was ordered with XLR outputs & Mick put on the wrong connectors (he put the input side of an XLR on the preamp to be used as outputs). I questioned him about this and he said that is how he always thought they worked.... Then.. for my second preamp, Mick insisted to put XLR's on. I told him NO!!! Not if it was going to be a problem.
The day my second preamp showed up, it had the same type (wrong) XLR connectors on it too.
I was kinda pissed off about that.
What I have learned from my dealings with Mick is that he is very capable designer/builder. His product is world class but when you deviate from the original design, there can be issues. The Cinema By-Pass is something that should be very simple but for whatever reason, I don't think Mick uses Home Theater much and therefore doesn't understand exactly what we're looking for when we ask for that option.
I had sold my EMC-1 MkII a few months before I got the Supratek. From my experience, the two units would work very well together. |
Does this pre-amp have a volume remote control? |
Thanks a lot for the info Bwhite, I will email Mick and cancel the pass thru modification.
If I remember correctly I read on another thread that you used to have an EMC-1, how does it sound with the Supratek?
thanks again, |
Uh... I ordered my first preamp with a home theater pass through (this was Mick's first attempt at doing this custom option)...Mick didn't quite get it right and as a result, my preamp was a bit flakey - and as I have learned recently, not up to the quality of the "stock" Supratek's.
Mick realized he made a mistake on the Cinema by-pass for my first preamp and made me another one. Again - there were problems with the by-pass. Mick did a completely different design but I haven't quite figured out how to use it - it doesn't work very well at all and honestly causes more problems than it was worth. I disconnected it myself because it was causing a buzzing sound - acting like an antenna. A local amplifier manufacturer is going to fix this for me & Mick has agreed to pay for the expense.
In all honesty - those who order Suprateks will be much better off buying stock units and having the extra stuff put on by someone else. Mick is too busy building these things to be troubled with working out the bugs on a design he has yet to think out completely. This will make itself evident when you receive your "custom" Supratek.
While the Cinema By-Pass feature seems to be very attractive - it truly isn't all that much different than plugging the preamp outputs of your home theater reciever directly into a pair of the Supratek inputs - setting the volume to 12 o'clock and turning the selector knob to the desired input. Use your processor/receiver to adjust the volume. |
The HT pass thru is good if you want to combine a home theater set-up with your two channel stereo. When you activate it the preamp gives up the volume control to the HT processor. |
What is the significance of the home theatre pass thru
Jeff |
I'm sold!
I just ordered a Supratek Chardoney and now the problem is the waiting part. I ordered mine with the a Home Theater pass thru and a remote. Thanks for the info Bwhite and Slowhand. |
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I'm auditioning a Innersound amp right now and have wondered how the Chardonney pre would sound with it. I'm currently using a Rogue 66 pre and have considered a upgrade to the Chardonney. What could I expect going from the Rogue 66 to the Chardonney....a BIG difference? Thanks |
Good answer, Fiddler. Since I live in the audio hinterlands, I have bought virtually every bit of my system (except for the speakers) as a result of research I have done on this site and by contacting members I trust. So far so good. Even though I LOVE my First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk 2 preamp, I couldn't pass up the opportunity to try the Syrah, especially since it has a phono stage and a remote (which the First Sound lacks). I'll try them both, then sell the "loser." The Syrah is in such high demand (three month back-order), it shouldn't be difficult to sell if it doesn't match up to the superb First Sound. If it does, I'll have a outstanding preamp with a phono stage for less money than my linestage costs alone. Sounds like a good "gamble" to me.
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To anyone that has the Preamp, Do you suggest running with
the matching amplifier. Will this make a siginificant sonic improvement
Thanks
Jeff |
Timchen,
Don't be such a cynic. How do you trust anyone that posts here? And you probably can't audition 75% of all of the equipment that is reviewed here anyway. Some of it is way to expensive to audition, much of it is probably unavailable in your area and yes, some is available only online.
You have to learn to read between the lines. Read here, read at AA, do a Google search, etc. Gather all of the info you can find and then make a judgement call. I ordered a Supratek site unseen. I simply read all of the posts at AA, emailed some of the posters personally and then talked with Mick himself. Several of the AA Supratek owners have been around AA a long time and are very respected members.
But in the end, it still boils down to a judgement call, just like buying equipment you "can" audition. How do you know that the equipment you audition is not going to blow-up in 90 days. You don't. You just make the best decision you can and then you live with it.
And no one is trying to force you to buy a Supratek. But if you don't, it may very well be your loss! |
it is risky business to call any gear the best deal of the century??
If this preamp is the best deal of the century, then it still has long way to go?? This new century just began.
my question is how do these supratek users said about this
preamp deserves credit or trust? what I am saying is why should I trust these users? since I have no way trying this
preamp? I am curious. |
Has anyone compared this to the First Sound Presence Deluxe MKII preamp? |
Mick responds to emails often - twice a day in some cases. |
Is there a phone number that you can call and talk to Mick, or is he only available via email?
Thanks |
Timchen - I will gladly help you. The Supratek website is:
http://www.cantech.net.au/~supra/ or simply click here to go there in another browser window.  |
dear Bwhite,
can you inform me about the website of supra preamp?
i cannot find it?? I can get the cantech site, but no supra
preamp?? thanks
or can you provide its phone?
Tim |
Oh God, I love it when I'm right. Its a $10K pre, or more, for @ $2K. As for Joule comparison, I wrote the Joule TAS review many moons ago and I've kept them both. Joule is slower, creamier upper mids - which I like. Syrah is "cleaner" but without any Nordost-like harmonic stripping (which some, eventually, call "lean" when describing Nordost). More people will like the Syrah. Dynamics are incredible and also on the phono, which, for the money, is the best hi-end value I've ever seen. Best dynamic/liquidity balance I've heard while maintaing harmonic presentation. For all of you who bitch about the bullshit of the hi-end mag/manuf/advertisment/reveiewer propaganda machine, this is the one you've been waiting for that restores your faith in (audio) mankind. I've permanently resigned from the hiend, but would like some of you guys to hear a gorgeous piece for a price that is more than fair.
The big mags will never review it - no "upside", if you know what I mean - so you'll have to take the jump yourself, or find one of these lucky ones who bought one to let you listen.
On tubes, I arrived at the KenRad black 6SN7's, which IMHO are mandatory - deep, layered, rich, homeric (I just, er, had to use that term once..). Tall Mullard GZ32 on rectifier. Good luck. Glad you ended up happy BWhite. |
I e-mailed Mick yesterday as to delivery time on Syrah. He's running three months in arrears. He's a one-man assembly line and will not forego his philosophy of "doing it right" by hiring people to crank out Supratek amps and preamps any faster. All my best to him! I'd love to have the Syrah or the Cortese in my system. We'll see... |
Hindemith - the Supratek currently represents a tremendous value. I had mine in to be modified by a local guy named Scott Frankland who's fame comes from building the $30+K Wavestream V8 amplifiers - he told me that between the time it would take to build these, plus the parts, Mick is making peanuts on these. I am sure that as word spreads about the Supratek product, they WILL become more expensive - they would have to.
Those of us who know about these today should consider ourselves quite lucky.
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Bwhite, Thanks. This has been really helpful. I have already sent several inquiries about the supratek, and this feedback adds a great deal to a growing strong case for purchase. At the price, how can one afford NOT to? |
Hindemith - the only ARC preamp I've spent much time with was a friends LS-25 (I think that's what it was). To me, that ARC preamp sounded sterile and had a very bright solid state quality to it. I am not certain if it was a direct result of it in my friends system context or if the ARC didn't match up very well with his gear but I know of a fact that when he purchased a Supratek, suddenly things got WAY more listenable.
Since this friend also uses Conrad Johnson Premier 8A amps, he really, really wanted a CJ preamp to match his amps. He auditioned a Conrad Johnson 16LS in his system side by side with my Supratek. The CJ initially sounded pretty good (we thought) but once we switched over to the Supratek, it was instantly apparent that the CJ LS16 was a total joke. VEILED, weak sounding, restricted in dynamics, artificial sounding, rolled off in all directions.
So.... he bit the bullet and demo'd a CJ ART - while the ART was better, it still maintained much of the CJ character being a certain artificial sweetness and while it was much better than the LS16, the ART was rolled off too - undynamic and dull when compared to the Supratek.
So.. my friend purchased a Syrah and has been happy ever since. |
Bwhite, Can you comment on the Chardonnay vs. top of the line CJ and ARC tubes? |
