I just asked Mick about installing v caps in my Chardonnay and this was his reply... "Richard I hate the V-caps- they re brittle and harsh sounding- some think they have "detail", but that's their call not mine"
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If anyone is looking for a true "World Class" preamp at a very fair price..heed my advice. I just recieved a Supratek Syrah preamp that was hand built by Mick Maloney in Western Australia, and it is absolutely beautiful! This preamp is the best deal you will ever find. I would put it up against any preamp out there for both looks and sound. Price? $2500 for the Syrah (includes Killer Phono stage). Not into phono? Try the Chardonney line stage for $2100. Don't get me wrong, I am not associated with this company. I am just a very happy owner! This preamp is VERY dynamic, yet liquid. It conveys the sound of music better than any other preamp that I have ever heard! You can check out the Supratek website at www. cantech.net.au
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Srajan further suggests that Mick uses auricaps in his equipment. Curious, if Mick does not like v-caps why would he ship units with them? I just popped my bottom cover off my Cab Dual (manufactured less than a month ago) and I see both auricaps and v-caps TFTF. Hopefully the v-caps are in a benign position??? Clipsal, do you have v-caps? |
clipsal: i read that article this morning. i asked mick in regard to my cabernet dual and he stated that it is coming equipped with auricaps. he did not speak kindly of the v-caps. my cabernet dual is presently sitting at my local fedex sort facility. i presume i will receive it monday. until then, i can only wait. |
Srajan's reviewed a older version of the Cabernet Dual. The review version used the 6sn7 tube for the low frequency. The most recent version (manufactured Dec '07) uses a 6H30 for the low frequency stage. There is a master control pot on the front of the chassis and a low frequency pot on the top of the chassis in between the 6H30 tubes. On the rear of the unit there are no gain controls, just a switch for xlr or RCA output. |
Hi Dracule1, Originally the Cabernet Dual was noisy as I noticed it had a quite a bit of hum coming from the power supply. Amazingly, after placing the Dual on my new Audiav Crystal Rack, the noise has completely vanished (dead quiet). Go figure ? In terms of background noise coming from the speakers, it might be wise to adjust the gain on the amplifier. Similar to the feature on Mick's amplifiers. My amplifier was hand made by a guy here in Sydney, so I just went there again and asked him to retrofit an adjustable gain and feedback control for each of the mono-blocks. This then allows one to perfectly tune the pre-amp to the amplifiers. Thus, after having the adjustable gain incorporated, I just turned down the gain a little from the default factory setting on the amplifier and wollah, NO hum or noise from the speakers. Btw, the speakers in the current incarnation are around 98 DB sensitivity. |
I like the new Cabernet Dual. It's quite different to the Sauvignon. The 101D imparts a holographic image which outclasses the Sauvignon and the top end is simply sublime. I decided to go for the Dual, simply because I felt I had hung on too long with the Sauvignon. I had the old one for about 3 years prior. I tried the Ken Rad Black Glass VT-231 JAN CKR-6SN7GT VT-231 in the Dual and am very impressed. This baby packs a large wallop in the bass department and is not at all wolly and flabby in my current setup. The Ken Rads also have a little more body in the mid-range. One of my friends was commenting that he felt there was a small hole in the mid-range that shut out some parts of the vocal frequency range and made many of the vocals to sound a little recessed (eg. similar depth in presentation to the instruments). This could be due to the room I think, but the Ken Rads may have rectified this issue somewhat for the time being. I'll let you know when my Audiophile buddy comes over again. My current set of speakers is the WHT PR-1 (http://www.whtspeakers.com), which are a pair of 2-way horn loaded ribbons. This explains why I'm only running one half of the pre-amp at the moment. The 101D section is connected to PR-1 completely. Even though the speakers are bi-wireable, it would not make sense to connect the ribbon tweeter to the 101D and the mid-range/woofer to the 6H30. I'm planning to pick up the matching WHT active subwoofer and connect that directly to the 6H30 section using the RCA inputs/outputs. This should hopefully rectify the situation, and will keep my fingers crossed. |
Clipsal, The 101 stage of the Cab Dual is best voiced for midrange and above while the 6H30 stage is optimal for low frequencies. (The right tools for the right job when biamping.) The 101 is not a stellar tube at low frquencies and maybe what you are experienceing is the 101's bass weekness. The 350b is a very linear tube and perhaps it accentuates the 101's inabilities in the bass department. Try the swapping the 350b with the KT66 and the EH 5881 while listening to the low frequency with the 6H30 stage. Any differences?? You can also try a Kenrad VT-231 in the driver seat...they always give something special to the bass. (at least in the Chardonnay)....Then of course maybe all this does not translate to the Cabernet Dual circuit (I hope not). Have fun and find what you like! As a former Sauvignon owner, I would love to hear your impressions of your new Cab. How does it compare? What prompted your move up the 'food chain'? BTW, Santa brought a Cab Dual and its burning-in as I write. The stock Sovtek and EH tubes will be the first to go!! ... you beat me to the punch. :) Enjoy the Magic! |
Hi Powers, You are correct in my Cabernet Dual, the 6sn7s drive both the 6H30 and the 101 stages. The bass bloat occurs with the 101D section with WE350B as I'm only using the 101D section. The Sovtek KT66 is not bad, just a little etchy with a little less depth than the WE350B The Sylvania 6F6G I have is the standard "G" version with a black base and a silvery top Powers, do you use the Dual ? Sorry V21, I have three friends who both want my Bendix as I have two of them. Cheers |
Powers Many thanks for the info on the 6F6 types I will try and get a pair to compare. I have just fitted a pair of old Brimar 6L6G tubes into my Chardonnay and will see how they sound. No idea how they test but all I know is that they work. I am still hoping someone here can offer me a Bendix 6106 as there seems to be a general consensus that this is the best rectifier to use. I have noticed that when I switch on, the tubes on the pre light up almost instantaneously though I thought that the Mullard GZ33 was supposed to be a slow start rectifier. |
Clipsal and V21, My bad, the previous post/response was for V21. Clipsal, can you further describe your Cabernet version. I was under the impression that in the most recent version of the Cabernet Dual, the 6sn7s drive both the 6H30 and the 101 stages. Is the bass bloat you describe in the 6h30 or the 101 portion? |
Clipsal, As Stiltskin says, only use "g" do not use metal cans(6F6). Both the 6F6g and the 6F6GT are identical tubes. The only difference is the shape of the glass. The 6F6gt has a straight side. http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6f6gt.html I have several of each type (Visseaux 6F6G; Tung-Sol 6F6g; Tung-Sol 6F6gt) and can hear no difference between the tung-sol 6F6g and the tung-sol 6F6GT. The Visseaux 6F6g, while maintaining the qualities of the tung-sol 6f6g (speed,resolution), is not as linear. They have a bit more high end extension. Now this difference can most likly be contributed to diferences in the 'house sound' between Tung-Sol and Visseaux. I find the 'tung-sol sound' less fatiguing during long listening sessions. I also like the look of the tung-sol 6F6GT, not unlike tung-sol 6sn7gt on steriods! Last night (with a 6106 and a pair of tung-sol 6sn7gt RPs) I tried a pair of tung-sol 6L6WGB from the 50's in the regulator position. Great big rich sound with some substance! No comparison to the sovtek 5881 or the sovtek kt66 which in comparison have a small and anemic presentation. Not sure if it's sovtek in particular but these new production tubes have lost the Mojo! Enjoy the music! |
I'm using the stock Electro Harmonix 6SN7 as it's not used as the driver in this particular pre. I do have the following stashed away from my Sauvignon days: Ken Rad black glass VT-231 RCA grey glass VT-231 Tung Sol round plates 6SN7 black glass Sylvania 6SN7GT Ratheon 6SN7 Mullard GZ34 Bendix 6106 (not recommended by Mick in Dual) I do have a pair of Sylvania 6F6G stashed away somwhere, that I can use including a pair of Tung-Sol KT66 (Russian) Any thoughts? |
I got a Cabernet Dual (latest one) and noticed that if I replace the Sovtek KT66 regulators with the Western Electric 350B I get a little more bass, but that bass is a little bloated. Thus, in order to rectify that issue I went back to the Sovtek KT66. I used to have the Sauvignon before and the WE 350B was fantastic in that model. Anyone out there have any experience with tube rolling on the "Cabernet Dual" as I'd be very interested as to your impressions. Many Thanks, |
V21, If you locate a tube vender that has some Bendix 6106, request a 1950s vintage with matched sides.This tube was made into the 1970s. A quick way to discribe a Bendix 6106 is log onto Tube World.com Type in Bendix 6106 on their page,they will have a close up picture of a Joint Army and Navy [JAN] 50s vintage. Yes the 6F6g is used by afew Supratek preamp owners including myself. |
V21, If no one here has an extra Bendix 6106 they are willing to part with. Member Baranyi just bought one from Vintage Tube Services. The owner Andy likes to be contacted by telephone however. 616-454-3467.I believe he is in Central Time Zone. Or you could check with a tube vender here on Audiogon by the name of Sam1104 including some others. You want to buy the 1950s vintage 6106.This tube was one of many used in the American missle defence sheild during this period of history. A VERY robust tube. Also they take along time to burn in. Have patience. At some point if you wanted to try apair of 6F6gs to go along with the Bendix.You should have no trouble finding any in the U.K. The 6f6g is an old vacuum tube design and was used in radios and Juke boxes begining in the early 1930s right through to use in the audio sections of some amps and T.V.s. |
In the Chenin, Can I disconnect the power supply from the rest of the preamp and just use the power supply to cook my new Bendix 6106 for a week? I will be away on vacation and was wondering if this was safe to do. Alternatively, would it be safe to just run the entire preamp for a week with the rest of the system turned-of? I read the Supratek Tube swapping thread last night and I know someone did this with his Cortese but no one spoke to regarding the Chenin. Bob |
I would like to thank you Stiltskin for your thorough and very detailed description as well as your insight on these tweaks application and usefulness. As I mention earlier, previous owner was kind enough to leave Tung Sol 6SN7GT/VT-231 round plate (NOS) as well as Bendix 6106 Rectifier tube. I am not in a rush to experiment with different tubes as this combination seems to work very well. I also have some extra tubes: Ken Rad VT-231 black glass (NOS - very microphonic) and few Sylvania 6SN7GT(B & A). If the bug bits me, I have few options to try............but not anytime soon. As of Symposium roller blocks, I happened to have one set as well as few sets of Final "Daruma" ball bearing audio insulators - which are very similar to Symposium. However using those under my CDP is out of question, because of its dedicated stand. Which makes it impossible to use them under Droplet CDP. Here is why: Doplet with Stand I could used them with Symposium platform( got only one) for Supratek, if it helps with vibrations and isolation. I will look into your other recommendations, those also seemed very interesting. Heard a lot about the products you mentioned but have no personal experience to form any opinion. But will investigate some more on your suggestions. Cables I use right now are: CDP to Preamp = Harmonic Technology Magic link 1 balanced Preamp to Amps = Harmonic Technology Pro-Silway MK III(SE) Spk cable = Vampire Wire #CCS/S (Continuous Cast Silver)Bi-W Phono pre = Harmonic Technology Pro-Silway MK III(SE) and MÃRCH cable to MÃRCH UP-4 tonearm. Power = Signal Cable, Kimber Kable 10, Granite Audio. Again, thanks for taking time and effort to answer my questions. Mariusz |
Hi Guys, I just want to wish all of you in the "Supratek Club" a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! I continue to be amazed at the life this thread has. I am proud to call each and every one of you my friends. And thanks also to the veterans of this thread for your kindness in helping the "new" guys with answers to their questions. Tom |
Mrjstart, Heres one testimonial of Micks phonostage and preamp you should read through. Slipknot,ARS Musica Joe's Chenin has kept up with his new system. I find it truly remarkable. I'm sure if there was any hint of a problem with his Chenin in this incredible system, Joe would of dumped it long ago. Regarding changing vacuum tubes in your preamp to vintage select brands. I believe the older models of Micks amps and pres responded favorably to rolling tubes.Ask the man himself. If you have the money to spend on Western Electric 350Bs,Philips MininWatt metal base EL-34s,Philips MiniWatt metal base GZ-34,Tungsol round plate 6sn7s and early CCas. Your in for a huge cash outlay. Money better spent elsewhere in your system like a set of Symposium roller blocks under your c.d. player. You will know when you found the sweet spot under your player using these.The results are incredible. Silent Running Audio make equiptment platforms that will make a HUGE difference under your front end and other components. Slowhand highly recomends these platforms.I have since heard the results in a friends system. Nothing sutle about them at all. My first S.R.A. platform will be used under a new turntable purchase. Finite-Elemente equiptment stands and feet. Another company FOR SURE worth looking into. I use the Cerabase as feet under my maple equiptment stands and cerapucs under my Nordost Thor. No dought about it,they work. A V-Cap. upgrade to your preamp. Pay attention to wires throughout your system,keep with the same brand.That means a.c. cords through to speaker wire. Over the years Roy Gregory editor of Hi-Fi+ magazine strongly recommends adhering to this. I put to practice what Roy been saying all these years from the a.c. recepticals through to my speakers including my tonearm. My new tonearm and table will be rewired. For those that spin vinyl. Lloyd Walkers enzyme base Prelude record cleaning solution is truly remarkable and is everything he says it will do. Over 25 years of using various brands of record cleaning solutions this is many times more effective. I kid you not ,A cleaned record with this stuff is like a component upgrade. Also check out WalkerAudio.com Click on Fine Tuning your turntable. Borrow to try first in your system if you can. The type 3 Symposium roller blocks have shocking good results under a c.d. player. Most of what I suggested would cost far less with FAR greater sonic results then filling up your preamp with select vintage vacuum tubes....Have fun |
Thank You for the kind words Kgturner. The phenomena of the this tread as well as the number of people participating and being part of "THE SUPRATEK CLUB" can't be explain until one experience Michael's (Mick) products first hand. On the matter of tube choices and its effect on the sound, I am also curies. As much as I would like to share my personal experience with the rest of "S" users - I can't because of my very limited time with the unit. As far as the tubes that came with my preamp, all I can say is that I can not find any shortcomings of that combo. Of course, it is too early for any meaningful evaluation or comparison. What I have noticed is that tubes chosen by a privies owner (NOS Tung Sol-round plate) are very sensitive/microphonic and a use of a tube rings is a must. Other then that, they are wonderful. I would also like to ask: about the preferred way to address vibration control, unit placement (and power supply). I know I am going nuts with all this questions.......one more, power cables/ interconnects - make difference with Supratek or no. |