preamp


I am looking to seek some guidance from  'experienced gurus' in this forum. I presently have a Tube mono blocks 'Auris Forte 150' it's from Serbia by Auris Audio paired with Tube( hybrid) preamp unicorn pre by unison research and speakers are Focal sopra N3. Sonically not fully satisfied. I am sure by replacing the preamp with a appropriate one I will achieve the 'highs ' and 'mids'.I want to replace the preamp and torn between 
- Mcintosh C2600
- Audio research LS28
- VTL 5.5 iii.
I even came across  chinese brand Cayin M11LS  tube preamp. In the used market I looked at the McIntosh C1100 for about 60% of the retail. Bit over my budget.
All theses are in the same price range $7500 USD.  I have never paid a full retail price on any of my equipment. Probably  Mac I could get the best discount . I am not able to try any on these at home with my system. Even if I listen to these preamps they are set up with differently  at the stores. 
Appreciate  fellow members  thoughts.
128x128vishu
what dont you like about your system ??????

would tend not to focus on discount but support from dealer and factory and system synergy...my own personal preference on that list is the VTL but mostly because I like what Luke Manley is doing with the company and how hard he works to support owners....obviously the other brands are long running and fantastic...and yes I own both ARC and Mac gear 

enjoy the search and the music...
some other excellent preamps to add to your list IMO

Backert
Aesthetix
BAT
Atmasphere
vishu
Focal sopra N3. Sonically not fully satisfied.

It’s not the preamp that’s the problem. It’s a great amp the Auris Forte 150 tube amp, unfortunately it’s with the wrong speaker, which btw is also a great speaker but with the wrong amp..

These Focal’s of yours are a very good speaker, and though quite efficient at 89db and can work with amps of just 50watts they need to have very good current to get the best from the bass.
https://www.stereophile.com/images/417FSop3fig1.jpg
fig.1 shows, the Sopra No.3 is a difficult load for an amplifier to drive, with a minimum magnitude of 2.75 ohms at 96Hz and a combination of 4 ohms and a –56° electrical phase angle at 68Hz, both frequencies where music can have high levels of energy. Because the magnitude is considerably higher in the treble, the speaker will sound brighter when driven by tubed amplifiers
You need an amp that is >50w into 8ohm and can come "close" to doubling that 100w into 4ohm and again 200w into 2ohm to get the very best out of these Focal Sopra 3’s.
That means solid state amp or a big tube amp with low output impedance that has a 2ohm speaker tap.
As that minimum impedance and - phase angle the Sopra’s have in the bass, can look like a 2ohm epdr load to the amp.

Cheers George


Tomic601 -what dont you like about your system ??????

 

Missing the upper treble response and crispiness. I feel the details are not fully revelled.  I am thinking this is the trade off  with fully tube amp and preamp.

Initially I had Devialet integrated hooked up to Focal N3, that definitely was not to my liking. After getting the Auris Tube Mono’s I like the laidback, warm rich sound . Wondering by changing the preamp will I be able to improve the highs.

 

 

 

 


georgehifi

come to realize each component by them self are good , combining  them is the issue. I spoke to the Engineer at Auris he said ' great match with focal N3'. Just find the depression in the upper treble. I am not going to change my speaker or the amp  at this time, I am bent on trying different preamp. And try to test it with different speaker cable, presently I have the Transparent Audio. I like 80% try and get another 10% more than I am happy ( hopefully)
It’s not the preamp that’s the problem. It’s a great amp the Auris Forte 150 tube amp, unfortunately it’s with the wrong speaker, which btw is also a great speaker but with the wrong amp..
This statement is false. The speaker is an easy load for an amp like the Forte 150 (which behaves as a voltage source).
@vishu,
The web does not have a lot of information about this amplifier (including the manufacturer's website). Do you know if its internally balanced or is the XLR connection just there for convenience?

has your current system ever really sounded to your tastes, like when you first got things together?

just for kicks, maybe you can borrow another amp and this time an SS amp briefly and see the diffs for yourself. just as an investigative step before throwing more $$$$ at the rig.

  if indeed your amp is a solid mate in terms of current and impeadance a different preamp is likely not going to solve the issue

if you seek to attenuate or enhance certain sonic properties then a preamp may help. somewhat.

I would ensure first your amps IMP taps are set properly, 2, 4, 8 ohms etc as to the speakers nominal imp as best as your amp allows.

Iv’e had speakers that ran better on the 4 ohm tap, and some that ran better on the 8 ohm taps and both speakers sets were reputedly ‘6’ ohm nominal IMP according to the maker.

regardless where they are lower them to the next lower setting or raise them to the next higher setting and that will give you more insight to the situation.

just go real easy on the volume.

if that was a no go
I’d then look at rolling some tubes in the amp.

if you already have a tubed preamp then again, roll tubes there.

NEXT, I would try changing ICs, spkr cables, and or power cords thereafter.

THEN maybe if I were still dissatisfied with the highs and mids, I’d look at getting myself a different amp.

or at least one to just run the bass drivers.

power is a wildly used term here and its usual inference is aimed at drivability of what ever speakers. watts is what the makers give us in their opinions as their amps measuring stick for a general guide to matching them to speakers.

it takes current and or voltage to drive them essentially. if highs and mids are dull there may be a poor impeadance match upstream in the system. source to pre, pre to amp, or amp to speakers, or multiple mismatches. are present.

speaker makers as well give us their numbers for nominal IMP and so forth, and we are left up to find out for ourselves just how well our fav amp and fafv speaker like each other.

This connection reveals itself early on as to how well things willl be for the duration.

its a pityful case to expect things willl at some point changge from night to day suddenly from what we hear in break ins.

we can’t always go with what makers put on paper to match components properly.

sure hope things wind up the way you would prefer.
Post removed 
vishu OP

Like I said the amp and speakers are both individually fine pieces of equipment just not together.

As John Atkinson said in Stereophile when he measured the Sopra's, your going to need an amp with far more current than what your have to drive the bass properly, this will completely change the tonal balance, control and quality your hearing, to one that the speaker manufacturer intended you to hear.

 Your just going to go round in circles unless you tackle the root of the problem, throwing money away at things like preamps balanced or otherwise ect is just a big furphy and waist of money, and will not fix your root problem.

Cheers George 
As John Atkinson said in Stereophile when he measured the Sopra's, your going to need an amp with far more current than what your have to drive the bass properly, this will completely change the tonal balance, control and quality your hearing, to one that the speaker manufacturer intended you to hear.
@georgehifi 

If you were reading the actual post put up by the actual person asking the actual question, you will see this remark:
I am sure by replacing the preamp with a appropriate one I will achieve the 'highs ' and 'mids'.
and then, asked directly about this issue, the actual person asking the original question responded with this actual quote:
Missing the upper treble response and crispiness. I feel the details are not fully revelled.  I am thinking this is the trade off  with fully tube amp and preamp.
While his surmise about tubes appears incorrect its also true that your comments about bass amount to a 'furphy'.


Many that know, that this amp the OP is using, as good as it is, has no chance of driving the 2ohm EPDR load that these speakers present in the bass. And the Stereophile measurements and JA’s quotes prove it!

Your pushing your own balanced preamp agenda by asking the OP
"Do you know if its internally balanced or is the XLR connection just there for convenience?"
It won't help his problem one iota. Just too obvious.
vishu

See if you can do a home audition on a different pair of speakers. My experience as an experienced guru has been, most listeners are dissatisfied with the speakers. They may not realize it and then they start spending $$$$ on up stream components.  Just to prove that I am a real guru I will post some reviews of my room at the RMAF over a period of 8 years... 

“Though I've heard the Wilson-Benesch Curve floorstanders many times before, I found that they sounded spectacularly good as driven by Kara Chaffee's amazing deHavilland tube electronics . Nothing I heard at RMAF, save perhaps for the far more expensive Vandersteen/ARC system, could touch this rig for sheer midrange purity, detail, three-dimensionality ." Chris Martens TAS on the 2009 show.

“I've always wanted to audition deHavilland Electric Amplifier Company's products. I was fortunate enough to do so at the show, with the very cordial assistance of Kara Chaffee, deHavilland's designer/owner. I went back to this room about half a dozen times. Kara probably thought that I was stalking her. Truth be told, I couldn't get enough of the sound of her Mercury III remote line stage and Model 50A, 40 watt Triode monoblocks driving a stunning pair of Wilson Benesch Curves. Their were far, far more expensive rooms at the show, off the chart expensive compared to deHavilland's very reasonably prices, yet none of them produced sound so sweet. Kara was available throughout to answer my dumb questions, and spin every special request. I wish that my picture would have captured the subtle beauty of this system. It doesn't get any better than this.” Ed Becker from hometheaterhifi.com.
“Kara Chaffee of deHavilland Electric Amplifier Company demonstrated her relatively new KE 50A Signature monoblock amplifiers ($10,800 per pair) with her Mercury preamp, ($4,495) the $12,140/pr Wilson Benesch Curve 2.5-way floorstanders and Kubal-Sosna Research cables. Musicality reigned supreme here with the speakers completely disappearing in an expansive soundstage.” Steve March from 6moons.com.

Best Sound: “Honorable mentions include systems from: Wilson-Benesch/deHavilland.” Chris Martens from TAS
The Best Room At The Show
deHavilland/Kubala-Sosna/Esoteric/Sounds Real room. "Oddly enough, I believe last year, this room was my runner up. The sound was largely how I remember, but even better. I have my reasons for voting this room "the best" and here they are. It played music for me. Its presentation was very big and wide and spacious, yet intimate. It was as if the music was being played just for me. The timing and pace were right on as was the instrument and vocal definition. No, I don't think this system could fool you into believing that an entire orchestra was right in front of you, but then I didn't hear a single system at the show that could. The front-to-back and side-to-side special cues were intoxicating. At the core of the system are the deHavilland KE-50A monoblocks, which were driving Wilson Benesch Curves. The CD player was an Esoteric X-03SE and the preamp was a deHavilland Mercury III with all cables by Kubala-Sosna (which is new to me). The sound was so damn good I told Kara that if they had a turntable there, it might just push me over the edge. Seriously, as amazing as this system sounded, I wonder what level a solid analog front end would take it to. Here's the icing on the cake for the whole deal - the entire system's cost: $50k. $50k! A lot of dough? Yes. Yet for "Best of Show" at an audiophile event - 50 grand is nothing. Kudos to Kara Chaffee and company for setting up an amazing system with amazing components. The system just shined."
Thad Aerts from The Hi-Fi reader
I like the deHavilland amps more every time I hear them. The smaller room seemed suited more to the Wilson Benesch Curves with the amps; last year this combo seemed lost in the room. Not this time; it was intimate and powerful. The 50A Signature Mono Amps and Mercury III Remote Line Preamp sang an enchanting song together. Previously I had felt the need for the Curves to be powered by bigger amps, but the deHavillands are challenging that conclusion. They startled me with their fortitude, as well as their golden toned dialect spoken through the Curves.

This was a room that I found myself returning to more than once when my ears were tired of all the noise. This is certainly not a cheap system, but it sounded better than some systems that cost three times as much. Most importantly, it was a system that allowed you to really enjoy music. The deHavilland room had almost the same system as last year, but in a different room. The big difference is that, this year the sound was perfectly beautiful. An Esoteric X-03SE CD player into the a deHavilland Mercury III Linestage was providing the signal to a pair of the deHavilland 50A Signature mono amps which was powering a pair of Wilson Benesch’s Curves, all the cables were by Kubala-Sosna.  
"deHavilland Electonics with Wilson Bensch speakers, the room we revisited most. Sound to die for." John Zurek from positive-feedback.com

I heard the 50A's at RMAF and it was awesome. Highlight of the show. Consumer

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When I read the reviews of your préamp , monoblocks and speakers on his own ,they are very good, but there is no match between your préamp and monoblocks . The freq.respons of your unicorn is till 100Khz.,those from the Auris is -50 KHz. You Chanel your high frequencies to a much lower one. Therefore you get less mid and high,as well as the low frequency it “pushes” mid and high always. Specially with  focal Sopra: he focuses very much on the low (10hz- ). There is no sync. Replace your Auris for Ear or Gamut...this is mine opinion. Conclusion : No good “match”,but seperately, good products.