Fjn04, Your post is confusing. First you said you didn't like the cryoed Hubbell, then you said it does things better. Please explain. |
"BTW i prefer pure copper, silver and gold plated outlets. I have not enjoyed any experiments with rhodium-plated outlets, but that is one person's taste."
I wanted to bring this thread back from the dead. I am experimenting with Cryoed Hubbell 5362's, and don't think I like them. I feel the standard 5362 offers a more relaxed, presentation. The Cryoed outlet does seem to do things better, like perhaps increase detail. I am particularyly interested in the above comment regarding pure copper,silver and gold.... |
I love PPP, it brings my system to the next level. Without it all kinds of noises exist in the system. With it, i hear more music, which means the background is more blakened. |
I took the ppp out of my 2 piece system of a Lessloss dac and rega transport. I use a 650hd headphone with a balanced equinox cable directly from the dac that has distorsionless volume control no need for preamp. I have a Lldfpc to the dac and PS P SC to the Rega witch plugin to the PS Soloict wall outlet. When I took out the PPP I noticed a sound inprovment in the air or space and more punch in the music at high volume. I built my system around the PPP so I have never been with out it. so I reconized the change imideetly. I think it all about the quality of your gear and combonations. |
The PPP takes at least 500 hours of burn in to sound its best. Also, I found the Synergistic Research Precision AC power cord works best on this conditioner. My system never sounded softer connected to the PPP compared to directly to the wall. Probably because of the Precision AC power cord. I eventually moved the PPP to my HT system. It seems to add significant improvements to my LCD TV and all the low to mid "fi" HT equipment. I found it works better here rather than with my high quality 2-channel equipment. The Synergistic Research Powercell beat the pants off of the PPP. Night and day jaw dropping difference. It's the first power conditioner I tried were the system actually sounds more dynamic plugged into the Powercell rather than directly to the wall. I retired a DCCA Reference Master to the PPP and it works great. I had the RM PC upgraded to the latest 2009 spec which sounds a lot better than Don's original Reference Master.
Another thing I noticed. You can make the PPP sound better and clearer with isolation feet. It's very sensitive to these. I found Herbies to work very well. Improved soundstage, focus and clarity and relieved some congestion. Nice tweek for the PPP. Do a search, others have success using other isolation devices on the PPP as well. |
When I tried the Emotion Power cords, I thought they made evrything sound way too dark, with a great dampening of the treble.
Others claim the Emotion cables are great! Well they did not work very good with my gear.
Perhaps the PP is having the same issue with the Emotion cords. |
Casouza, I second your opinion of nickel plated outlets (and IEC inlets as well). I've replaced every stock nickel plated inlet in my components. I don't get why all high end manufacturers put some of the finest caps, resistors, and what have you in their equipment, yet install a crappy $1.29 inlet ? |
Drubin, in a well-adjusted high end system, the difference between pure copper, gold and nickel plated outlets is abysmal.
I write from experience, because I have four outlets behind my system and can easily test/demo the differences.
Nickel adds a metalic sheen to the upper midrange and treble. Once I hear it, my brain locks on it and all the fun is gone. Think early CD players, that's the kind of effect I hear.
BTW i prefer pure copper, silver and gold plated outlets. I have not enjoyed any experiments with rhodium-plated outlets, but that is one person's taste. |
I had a PPP for a bit in my system and it did what most of the conditioners I have owned (Isoclean, Sound Application) or demoed (Hydra V8) did, it sucked the punch and liveliness from the music. It just softened everything.
However, I did demo a PurePower 1050 for a few days. This is when I discovered how much the Isoclean was not right for my system. The dynamics and punch came back when I used the PurePower. The dealer did not let me demo it long enough to develop a thorough opinion and the fan in it was a deal breaker for me. And the form factor was also an issue. However, I am still considering getting one. |
What's the sound of nickel plated outlets? |
I own a PPP purchased 2/07. My APL/Esoteric definitely sounds better straight into the wall - more lucid and dynamic each time I tested it. Perhaps it has something to do with the R-core transformer.
Through experimentation, I found that on a good power day, some other components sounded better connected direct to the wall. Problem is, you never know what days will be the good days so overall, the system sounds better with most components plugged into the the PPP.
I am not a big fan of nickel plating. I think I read that the buss bars are also nickel plated in the PPP. The PPP cannot be retrofitted with other outlets due to the construction method used so you are stuck with nickel. I think the PPP would be better without it but Paul McGowan apparently thinks nickel is great. |
Solecky, on another forum I read about the Acrolink power cord with the Oyaide 004 connectors being great with PLC's. A well respected fellow with plenty of power cord and general cable experience espoused this opinion. If I still had the PPP I would definitely be trying out that cord next. Audioexcellenceaz is a dealer for these cords. (I have no affiliation by the way)- just been in the power cord jungle for a while now. PS Audio will push their top line cords. In my setup the Statement SC did not get it done. Never tried the top of the line cord however. |
I don't think the PPP is any more system-dependent than other power conditioners. IME, they all are. The first rule of using power conditioners is to give yourself permission to not like what they do. |
Foster9 - your response "Rolled off highs or veiled highs are not part of a high end system in my opinion. That's what I got with the Premier" is exactly what I experienced. I will try a little more experimenting as suggested (I just borrowed a 4th KC Emotion PC to plug from the wall to the PPP and see what that does also). Thanks to everyone - will keep everyone updated and I will call PS audio too. I want it to work too. |
I have not heard the PPP but I did just purchase an Equitech 1.5 Q. I did not like the sound with the amps plugged into it - flat, uninvolving. I plugged the amps directly back into the wall outlet and was much happier. I did leave the preamp plugged into the Equitech because I like the idea that the preamp at least will be protected from spikes or surges, and the sound did not suffer - in fact the Equitech has improved the sound to my ears (slightly more separation, quieter background). |
Ok here's my take. The Premier has been good for the sonics in some systems and not good for the sonics in others. I don't understand how it manages this. One would think it would be consistently good or bad. But it seems the system dependency thing rules supreme with the Premier. I saw that manufacturers were using it at CES '09 so they would not use it if it hurt their chances of putting on good show demonstrations. It must be good at times and bad at others. I had a Premier here for about 6 months or so. I tried, and tried, and tried, with all different manner of power cords. I tried it with my cdps only connected. Once I tried it briefly with my integrated (Blue Circle) connected. I quickly ended that setup. I moved pc's around in my setup. I tried high priced pc's (Purist Audio Dominus) and midrange cords (DCCA) and lower priced stuff (VH Audio, MAC) connected to the Premier. No matter what I did, I could not get my system to sound better with the Premier in the loop. I wanted it to work but it just didn't. I've been going straight to the wall with my gear the last 6 months with better results sonically. I've always thought that a mod to the Premier utilizing some of the better high end outlets out there(think oyaide, teslaplex, porter ports) etc. might work wonders with the Premier. Maybe it is the nickel plated outlets that contribute to the sonic degradation that I experienced, I don't really know. I like the upper mids and highs in my recordings to be clear, clean, and crisp. I love realistic, dynamic and natural sound, the kind of sound where you suspend your disbelief. Rolled off highs or veiled highs are not part of a high end system in my opinion. That's what I got with the Premier. I was eventually compelled to sell mine. Too bad;it's a great looking. But the sound of the music is where the rubber meets the road. |
I suggest calling PS Audio and discussing it with them, describing all of the details, as you did in your post. They are one of the most helpful and customer oriented companies around, and are usually willing to do just about anything to help you fix the problem.
From some of the above posts it sounds like your problem may be from incompatibility with some of your power cords, etc. Or a slight chance of a defect in the PPP, although not likely.
Also try some of the different settings of the PPP, accessed from the remote, including having all of your components turned on (not running) and activate the "clean wave" function. This will "degauss" all of the connected magnetics.
I have a PPP plugged into a dedicated 20A circuit, and use a variety of power cords, depending on the components (JPS Labs Digital AC for SACD player, etc.) and the difference in sound quality after hooking up the PPP is amazing. |
The PPP will put out 1500 watts contiunous and if the componenets draw more than that or close to it the PPP will shift to passing current directly from the wall or not produce the quality of sound it usually does, respectively.
I use mine with a dedicated 20 amp line for my front end components and a smaller HT amp and it sounds great. My main amp is too much for it and I use a Hyra for it.
There were several generations of the PPP with the latest souding the best and be identified with a 'F8' somewhere in the serial number. The prior generation of F7 isn't bad but the F8 production runs that began in August 2008 have the best parts in them.
Should you want more information feel free to email me. |
I tried the LessLoss PC from the wall to my PPP and did not like it. I preferred the PS Audio cords in that position. Different story using the Lessloss from the PPP to my preamp. Liked it a lot.
Similarly using a PS Audio Duet, I did not like the LessLoss from the wall to the Duet as much as a PS Audio cord but liked the LessLoss from the Duet to my amps.
I run a dedicated line to a single outlet so I need the Duet and PPP or something similar. |
As Solecky said, experiment. There's no universal rule of application with these things. It is very common for only front end gear to be power conditioned. Many, many listeners prefer their amps directly connected to the wall. I've also heard from more than a few that didn't like conditioning at all after they got dedicated lines. |
Well, those brutal nickel plated outlets on the PPP may have something to do with it. |
"If" there is too much draw with all componenets pluggedinto the PPP that could result in distortion.
I suggest experimenting further.
Try using the PPP for just the digital: then just the pre; then pre & digital together.
Unless the PPP is faulty I expect you will have positive results. Would be interested to hear your results. |
