Before I start my post here is my current system for reference:
Auarlic Aries G1 --> Denafrips Terminator or SW1X DAC --> Audio GD HE1 XLR preamp or Sachs preamp --> various tube amps --> Cube Nenuphar Mini's w/ a pair of REL S510 subs. Cables and power conditioning commensurate with the rest of the system.
As warmer months approach I have been looking for a cool running amp to replace my Line Magnetic LM-518 and other tube amps for a few months as they run pretty hot.
I've been interested in the GaN FET amps and just purchased a used LSA Voyager 350 Gan FET amp which I should receive in a few days. I've tried class D amps before and while they checked a lot of boxes I just didn't feel drawn in. However, I like to explore so I figured I'd try the GanFET and since the amp has zero feedback and my speakers seem to prefer amps with little or no feedback I figured it be worth checking out.
Today, Peachtree Audio sent out an email inviting users to a beta of their new Gan 1 amp. Here are some excerpts from their email:
What is the GaN 1?
In basic terms it is a 200 Watts-Per-Channel (WPC) Power Amplifier designed to be the sole interface between your digital audio device with a variable output, like a Bluesound NODE, and your speakers. The GaN 1 is a simple, pure and cost-effective audio solution: connect the GaN 1 to a streamer and a pair of speakers and you have an amazing Hi-Fi system. That's it...no DAC, no preamp and no input switching. The signal path from the music to your speakers is remarkably short and free of artifacts. Want to hear the intricate details in your music that have always been there, but you couldn't quite make them all out before? Then the GaN 1 is for you!
What makes the GaN 1 so special?
First and foremost is the GaN-FET amplifier module. It has several inherent advantages in a power amplifier that even the best MOS-FET designs simply cannot achieve. A GaN-FET power stage provides a precise high-power reproduction of the Class-D PWM signal with extremely high linearity. This linearity eliminates the need for ANY feedback, ultimately allowing for the best possible audio quality providing clean, clear middle and high frequencies and a tight, solid reproduction of low frequencies. GaN-FETs track the complex audio waveforms MUCH more accurately than MOS-FETs, resulting in significantly more transparent and natural sound. The difference is something even a casual listener can hear and appreciate. The GaN 1 is also designed so that it does NOT require a digital-to-analog-converter (DAC). The digital audio signal at the input directs the amplifier outputs to drive the speakers. Although DACs have continued to improve over the years, there is no DAC better than NO DAC! This concept is not new as similar devices known as "Power DACs" made quite a splash in our industry years ago. But this time around, by executing the concept with GaN-FETs, the bar is raised to an entirely new level.
Key Features at a Glance:
200 WPC state-of-the-art GaN-FET module
ZERO feedback design
Regulated 450-Watt power supply
Coaxial S/PDIF input with native support up to 24-bit / 192kHz
DAC-less design
Power on/off trigger port
All aluminum chassis
No cooling fans
This sounded really interesting to me and since I have a good streamer I signed up for the amp beta only. One aspect that intrigues me is to create an extremely minimal signal path. My speakers are single driver, crossover-less design. Employing the GaN 1 will mean the system will be Auralic Aries --> GaN 1 --> Cube Nenuphar Mini's. Will that lead to a more engaging sound vs the full system? Will the Voyager GaN 350 outperform a tube amp in the full system? Who knows, should be fun to find out....
Now, I have no idea how either of these GaN FET amps will work with my speakers. The Cube Nenuphars seem to prefer amps with low damping and no negative feedback, which is more common with SET tube amps and Class A solid state amps. I'm not sure of the damping factor of the GaN FET amps, but both are Zero feedback designs, and both have way more wattage than I need. For reference, I have a 1.5 wpc 45 tube amp that sounds amazing with the Cubes, so high wattage is not required. I am interested though in what these amps will sound like compared to my tube amps, and I am particularly interested in what the streamer direct to amp Peachtree will sound like.
I am also looking to acquire a First Watt SIT-3, which is a great match with the Cubes, but now that they are no longer produced prices have gone above my current comfort level. If I can get one I will throw it into the experiment.
The Peachtree won't be shipped until sometime in June, or possibly later. In the meantime I will get the LSA Voyager in the next few days. I might even be able to get it hooked up this weekend so stay tuned, should be an interesting experiment...
How do you do the @ thang..?.....you know with their name afterwords
mbolek,
The dirt cheap iluminati cable was one of the better digital cables 25 years ago. I cannot imagine that it sounds anywhere near as good as a serious cable today. We have better conductors, better dialectric material, better standing....we can cryo, better damping, etc. I make my own digital cable by hand using a twisted pair high purity Cardas 24 gauge bare copper wires that is then put into a cotton sleeve and I twist the the hot and ground together. I listen to the wire off the spool for best sound direction. This is the first wire I will try inside the amp when I get one in here.....I will try some other expensive wires too......including silver/gold combos. I find the 75 ohm thing not nearly as important as other things I have tried. Back in the late 90s I bought a Goldmund digital cable that was suppose to be baked in an oven so it would be super pure 75ohm. I made a twisted pair cable out of Nimtec high purity copper in a teflon sleeve in 10 minutes that blew it away. My cable was just a twisted pair....with no mind to whatever impedance it was.....lots going on here that people do not understand.
Who's delusional- the guy talking facts or the guy in denial who literally bought the koolaid, too dense to understand the technical explanation? Ever heard the word "bias" before?
I can see I am talking science to a zealot. I would have to be deluded to continue. I'm not wasting anymore time. Enjoy your 1980's amp.
@kuriboPure ignorance would be you complaining about some "issue" that no one cares about and you not even knowing if the gan 1 has the so called issue or not.
Pure ignorance, would be judging an amplifier before listening to it.
Don’t need to know anything about the technical aspect to enjoy its great sound. I guess you only need to know the technical aspects if you want to be a dick about it and rain on everyone’s parade.
Example, gan 1, where is your proof that it’s load dependent?
It's clear that the meaning and implications of load dependent frequency response are over the heads of many here. It's of no use debating with those who don't even understand the issue at hand, yet argue any way. Pure ignorance.
And, lol, no, power at a given impedance is not the same as frequency response at varying impedance. But you do keep proving my point that many here have no understanding of the technical underpinnings of these amps yet argue on and on without a clue what they are arguing. Bravo.
Still waiting for an example of an open loop amp without a load dependent frequency response, or any proof whatsoever that this Peachtree GaN amp is such.
What is so funny is that any load dependency really does not mean anything to anyone except those who look at numbers
I 100% agree. You either like an amps sound or you don’t. Don’t see why this guy is sweating some bad measurement, which he made up himself. It is kinda fun seeing what BS he comes up with trying to explain the thing he hasn’t measured though. I’m keeping my Gan 1 long term no matter what measurements or lies people come up with.
mbolek, You are the only person in the world who has modded the GaN 1......I think you hinted at changing the coax wire inside......please try this, it should make a big difference.....and eliminate the connectors on the wire, if you can....hardwiing is always best.....and all coax wires sound different (please re read the review of all the digital cables linked to on page 2).....Because one is made from silver does not mean it will give the best sound. Try different ones. I will be doing this when I get one in here to mod.
What is so funny is that any load dependency really does not mean anything to anyone except those who look at numbers. If an amp is 1 db down at 20K with a 4 ohm load (so that means your tweeter has a 4 ohm load).....then your speaker will be down about one quarter db at 10K.......do you think you can hear this? Do you think you can hear 1 db down at 20K?
What is so cool about the pure digital amps is that you will ALL end up using them with a digital xover. This is part of the revolution. The digital amp gets rid of the preamp and DAC and analog interconnects and normal amp. But the revolution does not end there. The parts inside your speaker are messing up the sound. By using a pure digital xover you get rid of those parts, you can use a tweeter much lower in frequency to get more transparency by using high order slopes, you can time align, equalize, room correct......all without sonic loss. So, even if your zero feedback digital amp were driving a tweeter with a 2 ohm load and there is some loss there.....well, you just boost the highs in the crossover to compensate......end of story. This is the revolution.....digital amps and multiamping using a digital xover.......YOU ALL WANT THIS. This will give the best sound in the world. LESS IS MORE!!!!!
You have it backwoods, Open loop = no feed back. Sun = hot, but just because something is hot doesn’t mean it’s the sun. Look inside the gan 1 and see, which you obviously haven’t done. If it was load dependent then why is it rated 200w at 4 and 8 ohms? Or is that what you are talking about? I thought that would mean it’s not load dependent, but maybe I have that backwards? Does dependant mean something else in the amplifier world?
It says nothing about open loop. You still have shown 0 proof that the gan 1 has a load dependent frequency response.
Kuribo will never produce because he/she is a troll. He/She is the same over at Audio Science Review, in the same manner regarding the same things about the GaN 1 amp.
You have proved my point. NO FEEDBACK = open loop. Now you have learned something. You are welcome. Your turn to show how an open loop amp can avoid load dependent frequency response. Good luck.
If you read the op’s copy and paste ad copy and understood what open loop means you would have your proof. Ball is in your court to show otherwise. I won't be holding my breath as it is clear you are technically in the dark on class d amps.
The ad copy? I’m not seeing what you posted. We’re talking about the gan 1, not your hypothetical open loop amp. You're y the only one saying anything about open loop. Sounds like you don’t have any proof. Just making baseless accusations based on some other random amps that aren’t the gan 1
You’re the one that is making the accusation, you prove it. Should be easy for you if you have any idea what you’re talking about. That is if you're not making baseless accusations.
Funny how they say nothing in their marketing copy about the load dependent frequency response. So 1980's class d. Most well designed class d amps have solved that issue. Nice concept, poor design.
So Ralph, are you saying that the data output (to be sent the the input of the Gan 1) sampled at 96kHz would not necessarily be a restrictive limiting factor to the ultimate performance of the Gan -1?
Ralph, When will your digital amp be available? We don’t need no stinkin DACs, preamps and normal feedback amps!....he he. And the fact that we can use digital xovers and equalitzaion without extra DACs and amps is incredible....way more pure and transparent. The revolution has begun!
Sounds like this would be a limiting factor going into the GAN 1 which can accept up to 192khz rates. Am I missing something?
Yes. Digital audio uses digital 'words' whose resolving power is determined by the number of bits in the word. IOW there is a chunk of data representing a voltage at a certain time. A string of these words makes up the waveform. In a class D amplifier, the on and off states have no such meaning. So a conversion from digital to a pulse stream that has wider and narrower pulses has to occur. FWIW Almost any GaN amp is really switching at 500KHz and beyond.
I have not heard the Gan 1 but I have a Gan400 and I am using a Schitt freya+ tube preamp with and it pairs well with the Magnepan LRS+ . I am using the Wiim pro streamer with a Allo nirvana power supply feeding the SMSL do 100 dac . All analog cables are connected via balanced cables . The soundstage is astonishing with depth and the resolution of this system is superb for the price point. I’m waiting for my magnariser stands to be delivered soon.
When you do not know that EVERYTHING makes a difference then you concentrate on the only things you can see/know. 24/192 might sound a little better than 24/96 into the amp.......but there are so many things that make WAY more difference than that. For instance, the digital cable from the coax jack to the amp board is totally ordinary with ordinary connectors on it. I would remove the input jack board and check underneath that board to see if there is a coupling cap and or 75 ohm resistor there. If there are parts there then replace those parts with better ones and then hardwire a super sounding cable from that board directly to the amp board (no connectors on either end). If there are no parts underneath the input connector board then solder a super wire directly onto the pins of the input jack.....bypassing the board altogether. This will make much more difference than going between 96K and 192K. Of course, there are other things to try on the amp board.
The power supply to the Flex should be killer....and best if hardwired.
Regarding use of MiniDSP Flex for digital domain volume control, the specifications state that the SPDIF digital outputs have a sample rate of 96khz. Sounds like this would be a limiting factor going into the GAN 1 which can accept up to 192khz rates. Am I missing something?
Great point. This could be a limiter for the Flex. Assuming my SHD has the same sample rate. Need to check this out...
The Rose outputs 24bit/192KHz and sounded fantastic (Qobuz). No volume degradation issues with Rose.
@abd1Would love to be able to listen to the Cubes. I'm planning on using the Camerton Binom's for my active setup. A GaN1 per side driving the Cam's and Purifi woofers. I'll start with the MiniDSP SHD as the front end and look to see how it performs.
I had the Peachtee GaN400. It paired nicely with my Rose 150B. Had too many Class D amps (Purifi, nCore, Hypex) and recently sold it. I'm using the Rose with a Class D mini GaN 5 and have no complaints.
Have to say that the simplicity of the GaN1 is brilliant. Sound wise it betters the GaN400. Not saying it will eliminate DAC's in the world but I do like the KISS approach.
@ricevs Originally was expecting an active Ravenna system using the Cam/Purifis (from your old buddy at Mivera...). Never panned out...so this may be a good replacement.
Regarding use of MiniDSP Flex for digital domain volume control, the specifications state that the SPDIF digital outputs have a sample rate of 96khz. Sounds like this would be a limiting factor going into the GAN 1 which can accept up to 192khz rates. Am I missing something?
First, very rough draft.....way more to come.....please feel free to contact me about anything that might be added, helpful or incorrect. This link is going to be sent to reviewers, manufacturers and posted on forums all over the world.....I am spreading the word!
Yes, lots of used GaN350s out there. Looks like LSA has discontinued it and are probably working up an amp based on the much better sounding digital boards from EAS (if you talk to EAS they will tell you that the digital boards are more transparent). Even the best digital amp system that can be made (yet to be done) will not sound like tubes.....there will always be those that prefer the "sound" of tubes....
I should have my webpage about all things: (digital amp/digital crossover/off the grid power/making your own speakers) up tonight or tomorrow and will share the link.
This thread has been interesting to follow. I started it when I originally received the promo offer from Peachtree and was intending to try a GaN1. However, things changed and I cancelled my order. I did wind up with an LSA GaN 350 amp and it sounds fantastic with the Cube Nenuphar Mini's. The Cubes tend to "prefer" low damped, no feedback amp designs and can sound amazing with very low powered amps (I've used 2 wpc tube amps that sound great) so I wasn't sure how the GaN amps would sound. I've used other higher powered solid state amps that sound flat and a bit dry with the Cubes. The GaN 350 amp just sounds so clean but not harsh and the detail is extraordinary. I put on one of my wife's favorite Michael Stipe tracks and she said she's never heard his voice so clear and "in the room." Strings are so vibrant you can practically feel the vibration. I've been impressed with this amp and I sometime wonder if the GaN1 would sound even better since it direct. However, ultimately, I still prefer tubes. Even though I'm not getting the detail there's an expansiveness and weight that I like with tube amps. However, I could easily see living happily with the GaN 350 amp, especially with other speakers. Which reminds me that I did use it with some Usher BE718 speakers it was a fantastic match as well. If those were my permanent speakers it would be hard to move away from the GaN 350. My main purpose with the GaN 350 was to have a cooler amp for summer. I thought of keeping it for next summer but there's so many amps I want to try. So I am selling my GaN 350. You can pm me if you're interested. It is one of the best solid state amps I've had at any price and I highly recommend it.
Also agree about the omission of a USB input which would seem a superior choice for interface. Would there be a specific technical reason for SPDIF only as it relates to data conversion to PWM or just a lower cost, more easily implemented interface?
Regarding volume control in the digital domain (ie streamer), it seems many have dissed the notion due to "dropped bits/reduced resolution". I’m wondering if the advantages of the minimalist signal path utilizing the GAN-1 are potentially lost (or muted) due to software based attenuation (volume control) at the source. Or alternatively, do the benefits of the simplified chain more than make up for any detrimental effects of the software volume control.
Most streamer volume control options interface via a "slider" or other GUI based option on a control device so I’m wondering if one would miss the "tactile" feel of a high quality physical remote control (think Devialet). MiniDSP looks like it utilizes one of those cheap "credit card" type remotes - not much enjoyment there.
Very interested in the concept and potential of the GAN-1, however would like to see more ideas for source devices regarding volume control options.
I would agree with @grannyring. With today's digital setup, a usb input would just made it a lot viable option. Many with highend streamers would have to use a digital convertor which somewhat defeats the purpose of simplicity GAN1 brings to the table. Also, I am not sure about digital volume control - I have experimented with Roon's DSP volume in the past and didn't like it much.
I have a USB optimized front end, the Sonore opticalRendu fed by a EtherRegen. I am going to use the just purchased Sonore UltraDigital and use it with the oR and eR combo. This is all Fibre Optical and my best streaming setup. I have 2 other opticalRendu but no FMC (like the eR) in front of those 2.
I spoke by email with 3 principles of Sonore UltraDigital . They responded this way:
1) No problem it will work with ROON DEVICE VOLUME setting. Many people use as I am thinking of doing.
2) It will have dropouts with ROON DEVICE VOLUME use FIXED instead
3) It will work.
So not the clearest feedback but I bought the UltraDigital today anyways and will test this out against my reference office system (only ROON streaming).
Cost of the contender:
- Peachtree GAN1 $1399
- UltraDigital $499
- WyWire ’Silver’ SPDIF $299 on sale and it will be BNC to RCA terminated
- EtherRegen $600ish with wall wort PS (as recommended)
- Sonore OpticalRendu ROON Only version $999 + $750 for Sonore LPS + $250 USB cable
This is $4800 worth of gear and nothing I would consider a weak link. It should be an apples-to-apples comparison for the most part.
I will use ROON as my streaming client and control volume from that (hopefully works).
There will be units with multiple inputs, including usb input, volume control built in, xover/equalizer built in and multichannel out so you can use this one integrated amp to drive speaker drivers directly.....one box solution.....you just make your own speaker and hook this thing up and play with the settings....easy as pie.....and better than $100K systems based on the old paradigm (DAC, cable, Preamp, cable, normal amp, whole bunch of xover parts then the speaker drivers). We no longer need any of that stuff....none of it. Of course, this will not be tube sound and not all will like it. But, if you want pure transparency and super detail and goosebumps and wowiezowie.....this will do.
I will have my webpage done by tomorrow (maybe even tonight) and post the link to all this madness.....he he.
No USB input? Can’t use this unit with my Innuos Zenith or many great servers. Only coax input? Really an issue for folks wanting to buy one with their USB optimized digital front ends.
I would like to get the above since I could connect the USB output of my opticalRendu to the input of the ultraDigital and then SPDIF to the GAN1. However, I am not sure if I would be able to adjust the volume via my computer.
When I owned the KRELL K-300i integrated amp with built-in RJ45 streaming I was able to change the volume using my ROON client on the DAC of the K-300i. Now KRELL did a great job of adding that feature to the ROON READY feature set of the K-300i. I do not think PT has any such ROON READY support.
My OpticalRendu does have ROON READY support and so volume adjustment may work. Actually, as I type this, I recall a setting for FIXED vs DEVICE VOLUME on the ROON ENDPOINT settings section of ROON.
I am going to talk with Sonore tomorrow and see if the ultraDigital will work in my setup using ROON and the opticalRendu. My fibre optical streaming setup is excellent I would like to leverage that to compare the existing gear with the GAN1.
Very good. How will you be getting the digital signal to the coax input on the GaN 1 and how are you controlling the volume?.....ie. what is your signal path before the GaN1?
You could bi-amp and make your own speaker that might sound better than Kef or Yamaha driven with normal gear..... You use the $600 minidsp xover and buy two amps and make a speaker using (for example) two Purifi woofs per side with a Beryllium tweeter in between...crossover at 1K at 48db per octave......With no passive xover and tweaking you will have sound that is unbelievable. Anyone can make you the boxes. You can even put them in a sealed box so you do not even have to know anything about box size and ports......just make the box as deep as you can and then just equalize using the crossover.....you should get punchy bass to 30 hz with two of the kick ass Purifi 6.5 inch woofs.
@ricevs I saw some of your posts on this and decided today to see what the fuss was all about. I guess I will get delivery next week.
I am going to compare this to the following:
- Benchmark LA4 preamp
- Benchmark AHB2 monos
- Musetec 005 DAC + opticalRendu streamer
- Benchmark DAC3B + opticalRendu streamer
- Audience FrontRow speaker cable
- KEF LS50 Meta
- KEF KC62 sub (will not use with Peachtree)
- 12 x 11 x 9 room
This is my office system, and it is not going anywhere since it sounds amazing. i also have 4 sources connected to my preamp. All 4 are used daily. Which the Peachtree cannot support.
However, if this thing is as good as what I have in the office, I may change my Livingroom speaker choice and go with option #2, Yamaha NS5000.
I need to get a SPDIF cable now and maybe some speaker cables if my old Audience Conductor SE are not long enough (somewhere in storage).
The Gan 1 Beta Encore units will begin shipping next week. Once your unit is in production/testing, we will send out an update letting you know.
Then once it ships, you will receive an email with tracking information.
Has anyone here tried the IFI streamer with a USB hard disk? Curious how the sound quality would be with the GAN1.
Also curious about Lumin U1/U2 Mini with Leedh vs Innous Zen/Mini. By all accounts the Innuos has better sound at full output, wondering if Leedh gives the Lumin the edge here.
Have a GAN 1 on order, they’re currently saying delivery some time in December. I mostly play music from a server rather than streaming (currently Naim Uniti Core, but it lacks volume control).
You need a streamer with a built in volume control......like the $400 IFI Zen Streamer (a linear power supply option will help sound). You use wireless or ethernet to stream and you can also use a usb stick/hard drive to play files. So, you would download all your CDs and other files (including high rez PCM) onto a thumb drive/hard drive and play them with the Zen Stream app on your smart phone. If you have analog as a source, you would need to convert it to high speed PCM and then play it through the usb input.
The $2400 Lumin U2 Mini has Leedh digital volume (completely lossless) and probably better sound than the IFI jobbie....However, no one has commented here on the difference in sound.
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