Some of you may know that I have some buzz/hum issue in one of newly received XA60.5 mono blocks. The dealer diagnosed the problem and determined the transformer needs replacing. Since the XA60.5 is only few days old so I am given the chance to get a replacement set or I could top up the price difference to get the X350.5 or XA100.5s when my dealer gets their stocks in the next 3-4 weeks time.
Kudos to Pass Labs and the dealer's service for all the patience and after sales services...certainly very much appreciated and glad I go for Pass Labs.
As such, I have 3-4 weeks to listen to the current XA60.5 in my system while waiting for the stocks to arrive and make the final decision on the swap/upgrade.
I own a XA100.5 with WP Sasha. Before buying tha XA100.5, I compared it with a XA60.5 that is a very great amp. The difference between both is the bass are far better articulate,with XA100.5. I compared the XA100.5 with the X350.5, and I prefered the XA60 because it's much more musical, you feel more involved into the music. So if you do not need the power of the XA100, go to XA60.5. ^jp
If I understand your situation correctly you will have the opportunity to listen to both amplifiers. You will have a better chance of making a good decision if you listen to each one without expectations of what they will or won't do. Listening without preconceptions is a good thing.
Some Pass X.5 owners will have to pipe in here, but for some reason I think the X.5 series might very well be more dynamic than the XA.5 series, but that you will lose some midrange liquidity moving from XA to X - not sure if that is a matter of power differences or circuit design differences. Class A is generally "smoother" and that might (not sure here) be we you notice as reduced "explosiveness" and "transient speed". As far as I can tell, the damping factor differences should not account for much (especially with your speakers).
07-13-10: Pubul57 "I was always told all speakers like wattages, the higher the better."
I do think all speakers need enough watts to perform well, the quantity varies with the speaker, room, music, and loudenss preferences. I also know folks like VTL will suggest you need 1,000 watts to really allow speakers to blossom. That being said, I think there is always (almost always?)a loss in quality as watts go up for a specific circuit design, but that can be a fair tradeoff if your speakers need the power, and some speakers do need alot of power, or more importantly current to drive low and dipping impedances. I think that on speakers like mine (Merlin VSM)the XA30.5 (which I did own)will sound better than the XA100.5. But I have know doubt the XA100.5 will sound alot better driving Thiel or B&Ws - they need the power and the current. So the question isn't really which is the better amp, but which is the best amp/speaker combo, and I'm not sure why the XA100 would drive your speakers any better than the XA60s (but they might).
Hi Pubul,
My main dilemma is: Given everything the same(i.e. speaker,room,listening volume, genre of music i listen to, source,etc) except upgrading from XA60.5 to bigger wattage power of XA100.5(higher damping factor of 200,higher output voltage and current too) or X350.5(higher output voltage and current), Should I expect improvement on dynamism, speed/explosive transient to draw closer the gap between Class A or A/B with the Class D that I previously owned.
From what I read from Peterayer's reply, it seem higher wattage model of the XA.5 models does indeed have better overall presentation of sound in the same given speaker(though I am not using the Mini II).
Wonder will there be actually a plateau of overall presentation on sonics quality where a given speaker no longer will/can improve further when using a higher model amplifier of the same brand.
"I was always told all speakers like wattages, the higher the better."
I do think all speakers need enough watts to perform well, the quantity varies with the speaker, room, music, and loudenss preferences. I also know folks like VTL will suggest you need 1,000 watts to really allow speakers to blossom. That being said, I think there is always (almost always?)a loss in quality as watts go up for a specific circuit design, but that can be a fair tradeoff if your speakers need the power, and some speakers do need alot of power, or more importantly current to drive low and dipping impedances. I think that on speakers like mine (Merlin VSM)the XA30.5 (which I did own)will sound better than the XA100.5. But I have know doubt the XA100.5 will sound alot better driving Thiel or B&Ws - they need the power and the current. So the question isn't really which is the better amp, but which is the best amp/speaker combo, and I'm not sure why the XA100 would drive your speakers any better than the XA60s (but they might).
Could you please elaborate on your last post? You seem to suggest that all one needs to do is calculate SPL in a room and match the amp to speakers on paper and all will be fine.
The XA100.5 looks as though it has plenty of power to drive my Mini II's. Dealers even said as much. I have a small room and don't listen too loudly. The bias needle moved only slightly and not too often. However, switching to the bigger XA160.5 gave me better sound. I still have the same sized room, don't listen any louder, the needle almost never moves now, but dynamics, scale, staging and control of the lower frequencies are all better. The music is more involving and enjoyable.
Sure it costs more, uses more electricity and generates more heat, but the results are well worth the upgrade cost to me.
Now, the sonic signature of the X.5 is surely different from that of the XA.5 and the OP should hear the difference before committing.
Given your 91dB and 4 ohm min impedance and the fact that you listen fairly close to your speakers, I would think that the XA100.5 would be plenty of power and the X350.5 might be overkill without as much Class A magic.
I would enjoy the XA60.5 until your dealer gets the new amps in. Then, just audition each one in your own system and decide which you like better. I think it will be the XA100.5 over the X350.5. Remember, they need to be on for a few hundred hours to break in, at least mine did. Then, just enjoy the pure, glorious sound.
Pubul57 With your speakers I would not expect much of a difference going from the XA-60.5 to the 100.5, it just doesn't seem like power (a fairly marginal difference here) is the issue, not with your speakers and your room. Did you ask Pass Labs?
07-12-10: Pubul57 Though I did not say it before, I should have added that IMHO the XA60.5 will sound as good, if not better than the XA100.5 IF it provides enough power to drive your speakers to the volume levels you want, and in the case of your speakers, that would seem to be the case. All things being equal, my opinion is that the same basic circuit design sounds better in a lower watt configuration than higher watt because it is a simpler device at lower watts. My general rule is buy as many watts as you need, but no more than you need.
Hi Paubl, As my speakers are in 4 ohms, the difference in terms of Pure Class A wattages powering are 120watts@4ohms for XA60.5 and 200watts@4ohms for the XA100.5, in addition the XA100.5 has a damping factor of 200 instead of 150 in the XA60.5 and X350.5. Not too sure if increase of 50units damping factor will be a big improvement effect to the speaker I am using. The Unifield 2s are 91db/1m @ 4ohms min. Pass Labs advised if I want an amp able to run most if not all speakers in a mid to large room and to keep it for a long long time to come, it would be the XA100.5. I was always told all speakers like wattages, the higher the better.
07-12-10: Tvad Are you running balanced or single ended from the Bel Canto DAC to the XA-60.5?
The Bel Canto DAC outputs 2.5Vrms single ended and 5.5Vrms balanced. If you're running single ended it's *possible* dynamics are being affected, and you might try running balanced instead. At the volume levels you normally listen, there will be no discernible difference between the XA-60.5 and XA-100.5, IMO. At 98dB peaks, you're only using 8 watts of power.
Hi Tvad,
I am connecting using balanced outputs from the Bel Canto DAC. I am thinking if the higher wattage(120w vs 200w @ 4ohms),higher damping factor(150 vs 200)higher output Voltage(32 vs 41) and higher output Amps(20 vs. 28) will bridge the gap on dynamism, speed/explosive transient between the XA.5 and Class Ds.
07-12-10: Peterayer I went from the XA100.5 to the XA160.5. My speakers are a very demanding load and I thought I would need more power/current. I first demoed my speakers with the XA30.5 and they sounded a bit restricted during loud classical passages. My XA100.5 was better so I considered the XA160.5. I called Kent at Pass and he said I would get a bit more of everything. He was right. Better dynamics, larger soundstage, more effortlessness, better air, better control of bass. All this in a small room at moderate volume 75-90 dB. Music just became more involving. The improvement was not huge, but better in every way. For me, it was definitely worth the upgrade cost.
I am not familiar with your speakers and have not heard the XA60.5. I suggest you contact Pass Labs and describe your situation. I also have not heard the X350.5, but if you like the pure Class A sound and the XA100.5 is enough for you, it might just be the ticket.
Hi Peterayer, I have enjoyed your review of the XA100.5 very much think its hard to improve the experience. The higher level models of the XA.5 must be really something.Cannot imagine what the XA200.5 could provide. For me XA100.5 is the furthest I could stretch. Not sure if the benefits of X350.5 on dynamism, speed/explosive transient,high Class AB 700watts @4ohm will make me forget the smooth liquid mid/high of the XA.5 Class A power. No best of 2 worlds as one would say I guess.
07-12-10: Rtn1 Does the meter on the XA60.5 bump around alot? If it moves on more than an occasion, go with the bigger amps.
Your description of the sound of Rock and Concertos with the XA60.5 does sound like a potential power issue.
Hi Rtn1, The meter does bump/swing slightly when i am playing rock and concertos at about 80db volume, but it does not pass the 12 o'clock mark.
Elmerpoh, how far from the speakers do you sit? Is this the distance from which you measure your listening volume?
If so, measure again from your listening position, and then move to 1 meter from one of the speakers, measure this volume and report it here. Try to measure a loud music peak. Be sure to point your decibel meter at one speaker or the other...not down the center.
Hi Tvad,
I am sitting at the sweet spot location which is about 2.2meters away from the left and right speaker. I am only taking the listening volume from the volume level shown on my Bel Canto DAC acting as pre amp.
At the moment i do not have a SPL meter, will try to find one to do some measurements.
I went from the XA100.5 to the XA160.5. My speakers are a very demanding load and I thought I would need more power/current. I first demoed my speakers with the XA30.5 and they sounded a bit restricted during loud classical passages. My XA100.5 was better so I considered the XA160.5. I called Kent at Pass and he said I would get a bit more of everything. He was right. Better dynamics, larger soundstage, more effortlessness, better air, better control of bass. All this in a small room at moderate volume 75-90 dB. Music just became more involving. The improvement was not huge, but better in every way. For me, it was definitely worth the upgrade cost.
I am not familiar with your speakers and have not heard the XA60.5. I suggest you contact Pass Labs and describe your situation. I also have not heard the X350.5, but if you like the pure Class A sound and the XA100.5 is enough for you, it might just be the ticket.
Though I did not say it before, I should have added that IMHO the XA60.5 will sound as good, if not better than the XA100.5 IF it provides enough power to drive your speakers to the volume levels you want, and in the case of your speakers, that would seem to be the case. All things being equal, my opinion is that the same basic circuit design sounds better in a lower watt configuration than higher watt because it is a simpler device at lower watts. My general rule is buy as many watts as you need, but no more than you need.
With your speakers I would not expect much of a difference going from the XA-60.5 to the 100.5, it just doesn't seem like power (a fairly marginal difference here) is the issue, not with your speakers and your room. Did you ask Pass Labs?
Yes,The reviews are pretty much true, the Pass Labs XA indeed have magical mids and highs.. You need to hear them...
Regarding heat from the XAs, no issue since you have air conditioning in your listening room.
When I listen to few hours of music with the XA60.5 without air conditioning, they only run slightly hot to touch(I.e. could still touch the heat fins for about 8-10 secs).
This is a little off topic, but I too am currently listening to a Class D integrated, a Jeff Rowland Concerto. It runs very cool and sounds very good to my ears. However I'm waiting on the arrival of my Maggie 1.7's and while the Rowland will certainly supply the muscle needed to drive the Maggie's, I've read how wonderful the Pass XA amps sound with them.
My room & listening preferences match yours. I'm wondering if your Pass XA 60.5's throw off a large amount of heat in your relatively small room? I live in Texas with VERY hot summers, but have a room with good air conditioning.
Good luck on you ultimate decision. From everything I've read about the Pass amps, I think a pair of XA 100.5's would be the way to go.
Some information: Speaker : Von Schweikert Unifield II on 60cm stands CD player : Bel Canto CD-2 as transport DAC : Bel Canto 3.5VB Preamp : Using the DAC pre amp at the moment
Room : Dedicated Audio room with no other furniture Around 4meters by 3.5 meters sized room with speaker playing down the long side of the wall. Acoustically treated with absorbers at the sidewall for first reflection.
The front wall is treated with 2D diffuser and at the back of the Speaker with absorbers to control some of the bass.
Music I usually listen to:
10% Rock 30% Jazz 30% Vocals 30% Concerto (Classical music, Instrumental and Movie Soundtracks)
I normally listen at volume of between 70db to 80db max.
I was using the Bel Canto Ref 1000 MK 1 before the Pass Labs XA60.5.
The Pass Labs experience certainly is a very pleasant one. The leaner high and mids of the Class D certainly is now replaced with the liquid and lush high/mid that I appreciate and enjoy a lot. Not mentioning the musicality, natural, neutrality, transparency, PRAT (Pace Rhythm Attack Timing) and bigger soundstage also went up a few notches with the XA60.5. The usual Jazz and Vocals CDs I listened to previously on the Bel Canto Ref 1000s became so much more enjoyable. I could listen to these genres for hours and hours without knowing how fast the time passed and also without any fatigue. I really like the qualities of Class A amps.
However something seems to be missing when I listen to Rock and Concertos (Classical music, instrumental and Movie Soundtracks). It seems that the dynamism, speed and attack are not as fast paced and exciting as the Class D, other wise the others qualities are much superior in the Pass Labs.
The questions I have in mind which hope anyone who have experiences with the XA60.5, XA100.5, X350.5 and Bel Canto Ref 1000s(or any Class D amps) could comment/advise.
1) Any benefits in my listening experience(sonics, dynamism, low transients,etc) if I upgrade the XA60.5 to XA100.5? Considering unchanged everything else (i.e.listening room, volume and music etc) as mentioned above.
2) I was told XA100.5 could be the amp I could be living with for a long long time even if I planned to upgrade to the VSA VR-4 SR MK3 or VR5 Anni in next 3-5 years if I get a bigger room for pure Audio usage.
3) Would the XA100.5 or the X350.5 be the missing puzzle of what I felt missing with the XA60.5 vs. Class D?
4) Would XA100.5 match the speed,imaging,instrument separations,soundstage and explosive feels vs. the X350.5 when listening to Rock and Concerto (Classical music, Instrumental and Movie Soundtracks)?
I do understand any comments/advise could be solely based on individual views and maybe subjective, however any inputs would greatly be very much appreciated.
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