@tuffy72561 I think it all depends on how much money you want to spend. I've not heard the Matrix power cord but my experience with all of the Cerious Graphene power cords, what I've read others have said that own the Matrix and my gut is telling me to go with the Matrix Power Cord. The Oyaide TUNAMI GPX-R V2, I'll bet would sound very good but to my surprise, I've not heard that power cord either, turns out I purchased the TUNAMI GPX V2 power cord which is slightly different but still very good at a fraction of the cost of the Matrix.
Don't misunderstand the Furutech SO22N and DPS-4 are good also. One never knows what will sound best in their system and room until one demo's. |
I think all the cables tuffy72561 mentioned are really good cables and like lak said its just a matter of trying them out in your own system to see what is preferred. From what I’ve heard thus far I would also say that if your system is a tad on the warm side that the Super Stroke and BM v2 could be a nice fit. And if things are a tad on the bright or lean side then probably anything from Furutech is good with the GE and Matrix being down the middle. But then you can always mix and match to each component to get a desired effect, which could have you going around in circles but hey that’s half the fun!
And don’t underestimate the cable going from the wall to your conditioner or power station. I was playing around over the weekend changing out the GE yellow for a DPS-4 and got really good synergy with everything. I currently have a BM v2 on both my dac and integrated amp with Matrix speaker cables and the DPS-4 on the conditioner that feeds everything really made for quite a nice soundstage and gave me some of the best sound I’ve heard. Of course I’m not done and will continue experimenting with different setups but I’m pretty happy with the way things are. Would like to get more Matrix cables but need to save up. The journey continues.... |
I'm really liking these Terzo ic's. Need to try the rhodium connectors on them but so far the cheap gold Furutechs are working well. Looking at the prices of already assembled pairs of Terzo ic's it seems the diy doesn't save as much money as it does with the power cables especially considering which brand and model connectors you choose. |
t_ramey,
My Terzo V2 were factory terminated with their latest Genesis RCA and it's a very good sounding cable with no brightness. Let us know how the rhodium works out.
Wig
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@david_ten I compared it specifically to the Wireworld Starlight 7, AudioQuest Carbon and Chord C-USB so it was a real world comparison. I know that as you go up the scale, some people have claimed increments of improvement but I flat out stopped with the
Neo d+ A. I know that silver works well in certain applications but I've found that it does best with tube gear and can be slightly "too" crystalline in certain setups. With SS I often prefer copper for a more organic presentation. For instance when I hear a cello, I want it to sound like a cello with aged wood, not a finely polished "new" instrument. I am using a tube pre of my own design feeding a Boxed Gobo chip amp based on LM1875's run with balanced power producing approx 15 watts. Speakers are also my own design (Speakerlab Fremont that I designed while with the company) and alternating with a tuned pair of Tannoy DC1000 speakers. Kimber cable throughout. The Oyaide made everything fall into place and gave me the goosebumps I was after. It just stopped sounding like a cable and a DAC and sounded like real music in a real venue.
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Does anybody know what the factory terminated Black Mamba V2 does with the shield wire? Just curious because I've been connecting the shield wire to ground on the ac plug side only as I've heard from others this is the most effective way but wonder if the factory bothers to do this or if they connect the shield to ground on both ends or not at all. |
t_ramey, I don't know the answer to your question but I have always been told by many knowledgable people to only connect the power cord the way you are currently doing it. |
Good to know lak, thanks! When I received the bulk version BM v2 cable I was pleasantly surprised to find the shield much easier to work with in connecting it to the ground versus Furutech’s braided mess you get.
Was also going to mention that I changed the gold Furutech plugs on the Terzo ic's to the rhodium Duelund and like the added clarity the rhodium brings. I'm going to bring the Terzo's home today and try them out in my main rig where I use Teo GC's. |
@tuffy72561 after doing further listening I still really like my Furutech SO22N power cords assuming they are built correctly because it does make a big difference!
With that said I believe the Matrix power cord would be a really good selection based on what I've read from others I know but I've personally not heard the Matrix. Over $1000 vs $250 depending on options.
The Furutech SO22N power cord is a lot of bang for the buck depending on what you use for the two connectors. Personally, I have several professionally made Furutech SO22N power cords (made by Mike Kay of Audio Archon others stores make them also) most with Rhodium over copper carbon fiber housing from overseas and inexpensive, but one power cord with Furutech Premium NCF connectors. I have pretty good audio ears (if I do say so myself) and I don't hear a difference, which tells me the inexpansive connectors and pretty darn good. |
@lak
Thanks for sharing your experience with plugs. I just added (have about 50 hours on it) a power cable with Rhodium over copper and carbon fiber/stainless steel housing connectors from China. I have been very pleased with the results.
To satisfy my curiosity I would like to try connectors from Furutech someday. It's good to know you have had satisfying results from power cords using the more affordable plugs that are available.
Cheers,
Scott |
@samac, I agree you have to try the connectors from Furutech someday and be your own judge. Systems, like rooms are very different and mileage might differ. For something like $45 for a male and female rhodium over copper carbon fiber housing from overseas off eBay, it's hard to beat, it it sounds good :-) |
I agree lak. I think you might have been the one who posted the ebay link for the connectors I now use and think they’re just as good as Furutech but for pennies and allows me to buy better quality wire cabling without shelling out a large amount of dough. I use them for both the BM v2 and s022n which total makes each cable costing around $100 for 1m length and the DPS-4 for about $400. |
@lak
I’ve read enough of your posts over the years and I trust your ears, so I think it will be awhile before I try the Furutech plugs.;-)
I hope a question about outlets will be on topic enough. I see you have the Furutech GTX-D (R) outlet. Would share your experience with it, please? I have a cryo’d Hubbel now and have been pleased with the results. TIA
Cheers,
Scott |
Guys, thanks for your kind words!
I've tried a lot of AC outlets over the years and other than perhaps wanting to use a gold-plated outlet in order to create an effect I like the Furutech GTX-D Rhodium outlets. I do have a FURUTECH GTX-D NCF (R) outlet on order not going to see it until sometime in March and then I'll put it on my cable cooker for a long time :-) Curiosity got the best of me.
I have not tried some of the newer outlets that recently came out, I'm tired or the merry go round and the 10 gauge wire that's always a challenge to work with.
To my ears and my tastes the Furutech GTX-D Rhodium outlets just seem to do it all right. Deep bass, good mids and handles the natural presentation of the higher octaves and timbre as well. |
While I have not heard the GTX Rhodium in my system , I did hear the GTX Gold. Very nice receptacle, but the NCF is a much higher resolution outlet. The imaging, detail retrieval is amazing. One of the best investments I have made in my system. |
lak t_ramey Would you mind posting a link for the CF Rhodium connectors you are using? I came across many CF Rhodium connectors in my searches (I'm sure there are 1 or 2 manufacturers, but several brands). I have and use these on a BM V2: https://www.sonarquest.net/carbon-edition/rhodium-plated/sonarquest-carbon-fiber-series-rhodium-plat...I have not compared them to the Fufutech FI 50 (R)s. I would have to take them off of another cable - too lazy. I would be delighted to pay less than the $128 for the Sonarquest. Thank you. |
+1 for the NCF receptacle. For the price of a set of NCF connectors for one power cable you can get around 3 NCF receptacles and have a much bigger impact on the overall performance of your system. To me the improvement from a GTX Rhodium to an NCF receptacle is much greater than going from FI-50 to NCF connectors. YMMV of course. |
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@maxima95
I bought those connectors from Audio Archon. Give Mike a call. |
@maxima95
The Sonarquest Rhodium/Carbon fiber plugs are what my power cable is terminated with. Excellent build quality and sound.
Cheers,
Scott |
Guys,
Thanks for for the comments on the Furutech GTX-D (R) ang GTX-D NCF (R).
Pretty sure that will be the next thing I try. I'm trying to figure out if I should get the GTX frame and the NCF outlet cover too. If so I'll have to wait a bit for funds to be available.
Cheers,
Scott |
@samac I have the cover and frame for two NCF outlets and honestly I'm not sure if they really do improve things that much but I got them and installed them anyway. The receptacle is the star of the show so getting that first is my recommendation and if you ever want to tinker you can get the frame and cover later. aniwolfe turned me on to this outfit in Canada. They do free burn in too along with a good price. Make sure to scroll the price to usd if not already. https://www.takefiveaudio.com/products/1682-furutech-gtx-d-ncf-rhodium-duplex-receptacle |
Thanks to all for your help. |
@t_ramey
Excellent comments and advice, thanks. I'll start with the outlet. Thanks for the link as well.
cheers,
Scott |
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Regarding the Furutech NCF wall plate, I did find it to have a rather large effect in my system. More than I expected. And I've had similar great improvements first from going to all GTX(R) outlets, and then upgrading them all again to the NCF outlets. Thought there wouldn't be that much more improvement to be had.
However, I would say that in my system the wall plate wasn't completely neutral to timbre. I got greatly enhanced microdetails and air, but a lighter overall timbre, not as meaty of a tone, and the soundstage depth increased a lot, but took away from that sense that the performance is right there in the room. Greater depth into the recording, but that recording was no longer in the room with me. YMMV.
I kept the wall plate because I think I was hearing more clearly into the recording, and focused on preamp upgrade to address the "in the room" engagement factor. But once in a while I do wonder about taking that wall plate back out of the system to see where I'm at now. It's just not easy to A/B! |
@genjamon
Great post. Thanks for sharing your experience with Furutech.
Cheers,
Scott |
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It's funny that there are so many 'uber' cables out there that are based on copper. Yet the Oyaide 910 series are pure silver. Silver is better because it is a better conductor and because it will not degrade through oxidization as does copper. I have the AZ-910 interconnects. In the three level scale: 1. Cheap - 2. Expensive - 3. Silly. it comes in at 2. Expensive. I have several other Oyaide silver based interconnects and a couple of copper ones as well. Basically you get what you pay for. I have for example the Across and Tunami copper based interconnects. They are cheap and more than competent. They are a no nonsense brand. |
@genjamon
That would be a tough a/b as I think if my memory is correct you have to disconnect the wires from the receptacle to get the frame out.
Your desription of a light tone/timbre though is what I think I’m hearing with the Terzo ic’s. While I love their detailed nature they do seem to lack the natural tone/timbre I’m used to hearing with the Teo GC’s. The GC’s also offer a bit more immediacy and lifelike detail without being forward which is what I notice with the Terzo’s. The BM cables are a little more forward too than say the CT GE’s and Furutech’s but when combined with the Terzo it’s a bit much for me and my room/system.
The Terzo’s are excellent though for the money and if I had a tight budget these would more than suffice for an enjoyable experience. |
@tramey I'm familiar with the trade-off between a lighter tone/timbre and more forward sound vs warmer sound with more body and more laid back soundstage. In fact, just last night I was going back and forth between two sets of outputs on my preamp - one with Jupiter copper caps, and the other with an RTX/Teflon combo caps. That was very much the tradeoff I was hearing last night. RTX/Teflon had a cleaner/clearer sound, but only because it was emphasizing the attack and not the full body of instruments. This also made the sound more forward, versus more relaxed soundstage with the Jupiter caps and a warmer body/tone to instruments.
What I heard with the Furutech wall plate was a bit different. Yes, the lighter tone/body, but a LESS forward sound. I attribute this to further reducing distortion which was causing sounds to be a bit more bloated than they should be. Greater refinement of the sound, but with a shift in tone/body. But it did leave me wanting some of that tone/body back.
One thing that helped dramatically afterward was upgrading to the Ultrarendu from the Microrendu. That upgrade brought back the body to a large degree while also increasing refinement and detail further. So, I think the wall plate was helping me to hear some tizzy distortions from my source or other aspects of my system to a greater degree than before.
I'm a believer in the NCF products for sure - I haven't heard an application yet where they didn't increase resolution and refinement of the system. The question is whether that's always a good synergy, because it may require upgrades in other parts of your system to achieve a new balance at a new level of refinement. Only you can be the judge whether you've got the cojones and wallet to go further down the rabbit hole. |
The Terzo does have a more relaxing sound yet very open, detailed and like you said, the GC has beautiful tone and just propels the music toward you yet without sounding forward.
I'm curious to hear if anyone has compared the original GC to the GCII; found their sound to be superior to wire in my system.
Wig |
lak,
Thank you so much for following up with the power cable comparison. Sorry to hear about the Deep Core issues you and others had. Get some new Blue Fuses out of it. I will order one of the SO22N PC's today from Mike Kay. Mike is a great guy and I have been to his house to listen to the Tekton DI SE's. I ordered one a SO22N from him and then he ran out of stock on the connectors, I think. When he got them back in stock I had just lost my job. So now I think I will try an SO22N configured by him. I want to try one Matrix PC in the very near future but have to apply my dollars towards a new DAC. Probably purchasing the LKS dh ma004 next week and getting modded by Ric Schultz of EVS. I have also purchased a demo model of a new model IC from TEO called the Game Changer Ultra on its way to me and I will report back hopefully in a week or two on my impressions of it in the TEO thread. This is a notch or two above the Game Changer II I am being told. |
Just an FYI in case there are those that were curious like I was about the factory terminated Black Mamba v2 power cables. I messaged one of Oyaide's customer service reps and they do indeed connect the shield to ground on the ac plug only and not on the iec plug. |
@ t_ramey - you are spot-on about the cable to the power conditioner. I assembled a 2m BM cable with Oyaide P/C-004 plug & IEC this past Saturday morning, intending to replace the old Signal Cable pc on the dac. No break-in time and the confused, incoherent sound from the dac led me to move it to the PSA power plant (also connected by an old Signal Cable pc) instead. Greater current flow over the course of the day and maybe-just-maybe I'd have a decent listen by the evening. That was Saturday morning. By 9PM Saturday nite with the new cable still on the conditioner, the soundstage had deepened considerably and had become more 3D with a richer, fuller, more fleshed-out tone. Guitar strings shimmered like they're supposed to, cymbals had a nice "taaang" to them, Louis Armstrong was in the room and there was a disparity among the recordings like there should be. I lost some deep thump in the drums, but that may yet return. Stayed up and annoyed the neighbors until past midnight. I think that cable may just stay on the power plant for a while longer. |
Anyone have experience with cooking the Oyaide PC’s with products like the audiodharma cable cooker? Thoughts? |
Yes, I have and used my Audiodharma Cable Cooker on my Oyaide power cords and well as other brands of power cords, speaker cables, interconnects, digital cables, AC outlets etc, but not on the brands that state not to, there are a few of them out there.
Worked quite well and saved me a heck of a lot of time during the break-in process. Does one need to use a cable cooker, heck no, lots of guys I know prefer to list to the changes as the new product breaks in. Others say its voodoo and break-in doesn't take place.
Me, I believe my ears and break-in is a necessity. |
I received my Black Mamba Σ V2 the other day. Only 25 hours break-in, so I’m hoping for improvement, before doing any comparisons for myself. Right now, it sounds like a decent copper cable, at its price point. |
@lak
@t_ramey
About 10 days ago (2-15-2018), I recall you both describing using a set of copper-rhodium plated plug carbon fiber connector from an ebay vendor for use as connectors for power cables. I seem to recall that t_ramey used Oyaide BM V2 wire with his connectors. What wire did you use for your cables, lak?
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@celander I purchased my Oyaide power cords from an audio store in Japan and they were already 100% assembled by Oyaide with original paperwork and box, sealed. I sure wish I knew what the paper work said, it's all in Japenese! Almost all of the time I prefer to buy cables made by the company, however, I have made a few other power cords.
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@t_ramey take five audio has a tutorial on mating connectors to Oyaide raw wire, where they teach connecting the screen and ground together on only the wall plug connector (and cutting off the shield wire from the IEC plug). I think this is consistent with what lac and others reported you. https://www.takefiveaudio.com/contents/24-tunamipc |
-celander
That’s great, thanks for sharing! |
Well I compared the Black Mamba to the TUNAMI GPX-R V2 and at this point I prefer the Black Mamba. I didn't think I would early on, I thought I would like the Tunami, but the Black Mamba just seems more focused and coherent. I could live with either one really, I will probably switch back and forth every couple of weeks or so. |
@kclone funny how that works out isn't it. I thought I had ordered the TUNAMI GPX-R V2 but by mistake, I ordered the TUNAMI GPX V2.
Now, I'm waiting for delivery of the TUNAMI GPX-R V2 from Japan.
I ordered the GPX-R V2 on 2/12 and a few days ago realized I never received a tracking number, contacted the eBay store and the gentleman said oh, sorry, I got busy and forgot to ship it! Oh well, it's on the way to me now. I want to compare the Black Mamba to the other two. |
It is weird, I will not say one is better than the other. It just depends on what your in the mood for or what fits best with your gear. Like I said, I really enjoyed the GPX R V2, it has it's strengths for sure and I will likely revisit it soon. In my system the Tunami GPX R-V2 kind of spreads things out, creates a lot of air and space plus provides a thicker heavier bass. The Black Mamba still images well, the stage is quite as wide or deep, but things are very focused and coherent. At first I thought the GPX R V2 was the warmer of the two, but I no longer think that is the case. Both are natural sounding and work well with most of the recordings. In other words, they don't sound brittle, bright, hard. I am very sensitive to that these days and if a cable exposes that in a recording at to high of a level, out it goes. Obviously, they can't fix crap recordings, but at least they are listenable. |
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~48 hours my BM Σ v2 cable opened up, and has more air. I'm up to 200 hours, now. Does the cable ever get liquid in sound? That would be my greatest criticism, at this point.
Has anyone had their cables cryo'd? |
@sadono, I have some power cords that the manufacturer cryoed. I also made come power cords that I had cryoed and after a long break-in, in my opinion, I preferred that flavor.
I have no idea if the Oyaide power cords are cyroed or not. Does anyone know for sure?
If they aren't cryoed I'll bet that cryogenically treating them would be a good thing, but one never knows until they try that favor.
On a slightly different note I received my TUNAMI GPX-R V2 power cord and currently have it on my cable burner along with a Matrix power cord. |
sadono, are you saying the BMS are dry sounding? |
@sadono
Do you have the cable plugged into the Deep Core? |
