Dear Tobes: Only to have clear what you posted: +++++" I enlisted the help of my 10yo daughter to change input resistance while I listened.... " +++++
Could I assume that you don't change the preamp volume selector ?
Atr the end the important subject is what you like my question is only to understand about and not to be in controversy or start a controversy.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Raul, it's not just an SPL change that I'm hearing (see above) - and we are talking about a very small change in level (I think the difference would actually be closer to 0.4dB with the A90's 4ohm generator). In any case, generally there is a tendency to prefer the louder option in A-B comparisons.
I enlisted the help of my 10yo daughter to change input resistance while I listened - it's definitely more than just a level change occurring in my system. I can't duplicate the same 'sound' by adjusting level at the 100ohms setting.
However I agree this may be just a synergy interaction with my particular equipment/setup, as always YMMV. |
Paul, will you be reviewing the A90 at some stage? I'd like to hear your impressions given your enthusiastic review of the Windfeld.
Agree that the 47ohm loading should help prevent any tendency for a rising top octave. In my setup, I think the A90 sounds more transparent at 47ohms - more controlled/sharper transients as well. I can more easily hear how instruments are positioned. I wonder if this has something to do with the (slight) loading of the generator. |
Dear Tobes: I heard the A90 in my system loaded at 100 Ohms and I don't try it at 47 Ohms.
I can't say if at 47 Ohms or at 100 Ohms has the flatest frequency response, like Pseydor assume, because I don't measured it and I can't calculate either with out the cartridge inductance value.
What I can to know is that passing from 100 Ohms to 47 Ohms the SPL goes down almost 1db and this difference in SPL ( IMHO ) is the one that could makes that we hear " differences " other that a change in the frequency response due that the A90 internal resistance is so low ( 4 Ohms. ).
My thought is that the quality performance does not change but only the SPL. So to evaluate ( other than make the measurements in real time. ) what we are hearing we have to even the Phono stage/line stage output/volume at 47 Ohms and 100 Ohms.
We have to think that our ears/brain are extremely sensitive to tiny/small cganhes on SPL. Many times when we are hearing a recording with two different SPL: normally we like the one that has higher SPL.
In the other side, Pseydor say: " They also become fatiguing after awhile. ", this is correct because at 100 Ohms there is almost 1 db of higher SPL but not ( IMHO ) because is a quality differences other that the higher volume that can affect our perception " after awhile ".
Around 1 db on volume difference makes that the whole system performance change too.
Perhaps a little more important subject about is the input phono stage resistor quality where we are loading that cartridge.
Anyway, if that load impedance is the one value that works in your system that's fine because that value is the one that gives to you music enjoying.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
This is essentially the classic ten times the internal impedance and it results in the flattest frequency response and thus the most neutral presentation. I also find no diminution of transient response or transparency. I agree that the raising the impedance to a hundred ohms--let alone running it unloaded--can produce some attractive artifacts, but artifacts they remain and most emphatically not accurate. They also become fatiguing after awhile. |
Jfrech, The camera was just a Panasonic TZ7 (ZS3 in the US) point and shoot. I have no clues about photography...I take a bunch of shots and pick ones that look ok. The pic on my webpage is a pretty low res reduction. The unreduced crop I posted in the pictures thread elsewhere shows more detail (but less context): Ortofon A90 |
Tobes, great pic of your A90! What camera/lenses did you use? |
Just a note regarding phono loading of the A90. I initially had this set at 100 ohms but have now lowered to 47ohms. The difference can be startling - Al Di Meola's 'Alien chase on Arabian Desert' sounds awesomely huge and full of impact and atmospherics at 47ohms. Put the loading back to 100ohms and the sound becomes slightly bigger, but somewhat looser, less defined atmosphere and positioning/shape of instruments, less impact and excitement. 100 ohms can 'goose up' some recordings that lack air and atmosphere but mostly sounds less correct to me. YMMV. Interestingly, Paul Seydor of TAS loads his Ortofon Windfeld (which uses essentially the same motor as the A90) at 40ohms. System Details |
Mike, thanks for sharing your insights. I think Steve used a term like "jump factor" or something like that to describe the Reed as well. Looking forward to hearing about your further comparisons. I've been bowled over by the garrard/tri/a90 combo. If the Reed further improves on this, it will be something. Thanks again and enjoy the holidays. |
Mikel, Just re-reading your comments on the SP10/Jubilee, specifically: OTOH the Technics/Reed allow the Jubilee to likely have more overall energy and particularly more bass slam. the Reed really has a 'jump' factor....." Are you saying the SP10/Reed/Jubilee beats the Garrard/Triplanar/A90 in energy and bass slam? If so, the mind boggles at how much better the SP10/Reed/A90 will sound, since the A90 displays significantly better bass tautness/density/speed and is far more lively than the Jubilee (at least in my TNT/Phantom II setup). |
I too recently purchased the Ortofon mc a90 cartridge and as much as I liked my shelter 501 mkII, this is much more live sounding.
The shelter was a wonderful cartridge for the money but this cartridge is so much more revealing.
These won't be around for long because its an anniversary edition so give it a listen ASAP |
Chris,
last night i did install the used Ortofon Jubilee on the Technics/Reed and this morning jtinn (who is visiting me this weekend) and i dialed it in. i'd say that it's set-up level is 'fairly close', but not spot on perfect.
there is a significant chasm in many ways between the refinement of the Jubilee compared to the A90 or the Olympos. those two thoroughbreds leave the Jubilee in the dust in the ability to see into the recording and levels of realism and nuance. i'm not being negative on the Jubilee, as it is a very 'nice' cartridge to listen to, better behaved and with more balance overall than some other (un-named) cartridges in that 'around $2k' price range (the Jubilee is no longer made i understand). of course, everyone has their own perspective on the merits of 'well-behaved' and 'nice'....and even 'balanced'.
OTOH the Technics/Reed allow the Jubilee to likely have more overall energy and particularly more bass slam. the Reed really has a 'jump' factor, and the Jubilee sings and boggies on the Reed. we played 'Hey Nineteen' from 'Gaucho', a half speed MCA pressing. this had been a reference Lp earlier in the decade in jtinn's and my sessions. in many ways we preferred the Reed/Jubilee's take on the cut. those big fat bass whacks really hit us in the chest. the detail was lacking but in this case the tt/arm delivered the goods.
the Reed is the real deal....and i can't wait to be able to compare the Technics/Reed to the Garrard/Triplaner head to head both with A90's next week. |
Raul,
I just read your post in the above link.Very Interesting and Informative.Thank you for taking the time and giving us insight to your experiences with cartridges.
I for one appreciate your efforts
Thank you
|
Dear Downunder: I don't own the A-90 but I already heard it in my system, here is what I posted that time:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&1026&4#1026
Ortofon was in this cartridge market for so many years, I always admire their skills/knowledge about. Why their top LOMC cartridges were not " inside " the high-end community day by day " mouth "? is something that I can't explain due to Ortofon great cartridges quality performance.
I'm glad that with the A-90 things are improving in this regard as improving is their cartridge top performance.
The A-90 motor/stylus is similar of that of the Windfeld and the 7500 model but that A-90 new cartridge body makes a difference for the better making " dust " several top today LOMC cartridges, of course that each cartridge performance is system dependent and owner dependent but with the A-90 I think that any one that can hear it will concur on its very high quality performance.
No I don't go/run to buy it but I like it.
regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
The posts above summed it up well. This cartridge's clarity is amazing.
Hi MikeL - I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the A90/Reed combo. Steve has said good things about it, and I'm taking the leap on a Reed 2P. I'd be curious to hear your impressions as well. - Chris |
Having used the Jubilee for couple of years before acquiring the A90, I can say emphatically that the latter is on a completely different performance plane.
The Jubilee does share some of the same ease (tracking prowess?) and throws a pretty big stable soundstage while balancing neutrality and robustness well.
But the Jubilee does not have anything like the open window clarity of the A90. The A90 throws a wider deeper stage and has far more life and transient quickness. The top end of the A90 kills the Jubilee.
As others have said, the A90 is a real chameleon, it's sound can change dramatically from record to record and track to track (the Jubilee does this to a lesser extent). The field of depth is greatly expanded - records recorded distantly from the mics sound further back, upfront recordings further forward. But it's the clarity/transparency I can't get over. It's the first really expensive cartridge i've owned, so maybe this is par for the course, but it's made my (relatively modest) system sound much more transparent than I thought it could.
If you want hear back into the recording and be put in touch with the musicians, this is a great cartridge. |
Mike, I did not wish to play that game of value for money. I actually think that the M20FL Super is delightful in its own rite/right/wright (never knew which form was correct for this phrase). Just consider it as another cartridge, if you get a chance to listen to one. In fact, since I have two, one of which is still in its box, I would be willing to lend you one of mine. My first one sounded excellent right out of the box but got much better after 2-4 hours and a couple of tours of the Cardas test LP.
I know nothing about the Jubilee; that's another kettle of fish. I suspect that the MC7500 is superior to the Jubilee, but I have no data to support that idea. |
JFrench
comparisons - hmmm - always difficult. My dyna XV-1 has been my reference for quite a while now.
In my system the A90 seems to have an uncanny ability to easily differentiate musical and recorded differences more from album to album. This is also the case even from track to track differences more than any other cartridge I have heard.
It always does this with control,poise and an eveness without any frequency spotlighting or other obvious downsides. The A90 is sounding more like my system and its voicing than a cartridge - which is what I luv.
That the A90 can sound absolutely wonderful on a current Raven AC3/Phantom combo, but equally well on a 30 year old Exlusive P3 DD table says something.
The dyna in comparison has a signature sound that you hear from album to album. Listening to the dyna in isolation you would not really think that.
I really think Ortofon are onto something special with their unique SLM manufacturing process to make the cartridge body.
Mike is buying another A90 and I am almost at the same decision point, so I guess you know how we feel :-) |
Lew / Axel
I guess you are telling me I should take my Ortofon M20FL Super out of its Thakker box and have a listen to it. It is looking ignored and neglected at the moment.
I will do that over the Xmas period and report back. |
Mike,
I used to own a jubilee and while it did little wrong, more importantly it did little right for me in my system.
It is now being thoroughly enjoyed by an audio buddy with my old VPI HRX that I sold him.
It will be interesting how you feel it performs in your system.
BTW, the A90 sounds equally as good (maybe better) on my Exclusive P3 as it does on the raven AC3.
Funny, I also have another A90 reserved from the next shipment in early Feb, so I have some more time to play with my tables and see if my delight dimms any in that time.
cheers |
Lew,
tomorrow i will have a used Ortofon Jubilee to play with for a little while. i'll install it on the Technics and see how it plays with the big (and bigger) boys.
Lew, i agree we don't want to start an arguement. one gets into the cost of diminishing returns of performance and who cares enough to justify it. it applies to just about anything one might want to talk about....and that process is an unwinnable endeaveor. |
Axel, I do agree with you, but I did not wish to start an argument. So I kept the number well below the cost of top-flight LOMC cartridges so as not to irritate anyone. Mike Lavigne, you really should try an M20FL Super, especially on your Garrard. I would love to hear your opinion, as I know you have sampled most of the best and most expensive cartridges in the context of your superb system. |
Lewm,
you are so right, in fact I would up the stakes to $3000 easily IMO.
I'm back with the M20FL super and it just seems to bring out details in "right" way no MC so far could do in my system.
Again let me mention Jubilee, Windfeld, Axia, Orpheus, Dynavector XX2 MkII, and Dorian, just to mention what comes to mind. (All pretty well regarded MCs in their own right)
And as always YMMV
Axel |
Is it superior to the Ortofon M20FL Super? (KIdding, guys.) I own an MC7500 that I am very fond of as well and which has qualities similar to those you guys are describing. I never owned an Ortofon cartridge until I recently acquired these two, and I am developing great respect for the company and its products. So maybe I need to get an A90 too. But for $179, you cannot beat the M20FL Super, maybe not for anything less than $2000. |
let me throw another log on the fire, so to speak.
i do have a second A90 coming (hopefully) next week for the Dobbins Technics SP-10 Mk3 with the Reed arm. i did have my A90 on the Reed briefly 3 weeks ago and it did sound marvelous. we did not spend the time to really dial it in like on the 301 but none-the-less it was 'special' sounding and i want to hear what i heard again.
the A90 is a bit of a chameleon in terms of playing to the strength of the arm and tt it is on. it's neutrality is not coldness or reticence; more an honesty and clear window to the music in the context of the other gear. like Shane, i've not heard the A90 lose it's cool; it's tracked everything without stress and landed on the musical side of the equation when things get exciting.
i now have about 100--110 hours on my A90.
what more can i say....i bought another one. any other cartridge i seriously might consider for the Technics would be more dollars, likely up to twice as expensive. |
Posts like this are giving me the itch to buy one! Mike's posts got the itch going also! I could take back my wife and kids christmas presents and just order this :)
So both you and Mike are putting some high praise on this cartridge. Any comparison info for us? I see you have it in your Graham arm, Mike in his Tri... |
