Ortofon MC A90 cartridge

Lew,

tomorrow i will have a used Ortofon Jubilee to play with for a little while. i'll install it on the Technics and see how it plays with the big (and bigger) boys.

Lew, i agree we don't want to start an arguement. one gets into the cost of diminishing returns of performance and who cares enough to justify it. it applies to just about anything one might want to talk about....and that process is an unwinnable endeaveor.

let me throw another log on the fire, so to speak.

i do have a second A90 coming (hopefully) next week for the Dobbins Technics SP-10 Mk3 with the Reed arm. i did have my A90 on the Reed briefly 3 weeks ago and it did sound marvelous. we did not spend the time to really dial it in like on the 301 but none-the-less it was 'special' sounding and i want to hear what i heard again.

the A90 is a bit of a chameleon in terms of playing to the strength of the arm and tt it is on. it's neutrality is not coldness or reticence; more an honesty and clear window to the music in the context of the other gear. like Shane, i've not heard the A90 lose it's cool; it's tracked everything without stress and landed on the musical side of the equation when things get exciting.

i now have about 100--110 hours on my A90.

what more can i say....i bought another one. any other cartridge i seriously might consider for the Technics would be more dollars, likely up to twice as expensive.

Chris,

last night i did install the used Ortofon Jubilee on the Technics/Reed and this morning jtinn (who is visiting me this weekend) and i dialed it in. i'd say that it's set-up level is 'fairly close', but not spot on perfect.

there is a significant chasm in many ways between the refinement of the Jubilee compared to the A90 or the Olympos. those two thoroughbreds leave the Jubilee in the dust in the ability to see into the recording and levels of realism and nuance. i'm not being negative on the Jubilee, as it is a very 'nice' cartridge to listen to, better behaved and with more balance overall than some other (un-named) cartridges in that 'around $2k' price range (the Jubilee is no longer made i understand). of course, everyone has their own perspective on the merits of 'well-behaved' and 'nice'....and even 'balanced'.

OTOH the Technics/Reed allow the Jubilee to likely have more overall energy and particularly more bass slam. the Reed really has a 'jump' factor, and the Jubilee sings and boggies on the Reed. we played 'Hey Nineteen' from 'Gaucho', a half speed MCA pressing. this had been a reference Lp earlier in the decade in jtinn's and my sessions. in many ways we preferred the Reed/Jubilee's take on the cut. those big fat bass whacks really hit us in the chest. the detail was lacking but in this case the tt/arm delivered the goods.

the Reed is the real deal....and i can't wait to be able to compare the Technics/Reed to the Garrard/Triplaner head to head both with A90's next week.

Raul,

when you say.....

IMHO I think that the MUSIC run so easily through a MM cartridge due ( between other facts ) to its very high compliance characteristic on almost any MM cartridge.

This very high compliance permit ( between other things like be less sensitive to out-center hole records. ) to these cartridges stay always in contact with the groove and never loose that groove contact not even on the grooves that were recorded at very high velocity, something that a low/medium cartridge compliance can’t achieve, due to this low/medium compliance characteristic the MC cartridges loose ( time to time and depending of the recorded velocity ) groove contact ( minute extremely minute loose contact, but exist. ) and the quality sound performance suffer about and we can hear it, the same pass with the MC cartridges when are playing the inner grooves on a record instead the very high compliance MM cartridges because has better tracking drive perform better than the MC ones at inner record grooves and here too we can hear it. "

....i think it is very important that you add in bold type...."in my personal experience".

do better MC cartridges truely 'bounce' along the groove typically?

huummmmm. i guess one needs an open mind.

i do not question that this is what you have experienced; only that that experience might not be the universal perception. i have a hard time taking your perceptions as the final truth in this matter; although i respect your opinions and they cause me to be curious.

i admit to never listening to high compliance MM cartridges.....and have no opinion about them.

ultimately; listeners must discover the truth for themselves. i'd love to see a MM take a run at the Lyra Olympos (or any of the top level MC's) on the Rockport sometime. flat record, perfect speed, no arm tracking errors, any outside resonance effectively eliminated. just two cartridges and a groove.

Raul,

to avoid further cluttering this thread with non-A90 advice, please e-mail me (or post on my system page) MM/MI recommendations which are currently "reasonably" purchasable which might represent this superior performance you are touting.

thanks,

Steve,

I will be visiting Mike Lavigne next month to try out a few new tricks for the 301.

i'm really looking forward to another visit and further Garrard tweaks. i'll try to get the 2nd A90 broken in prior to the visit so we can really compare things (like maybe an A90 on both the Triplaner and Reed and both mounted on the Garrard.....or both mounted on the Technics).

Since there seems to be a lot of interest in how the A90/Olympos compares to some of the MM/MI carts, I will bring a MP-50, Andante P-76 and M20FL Super and if Mike has the time and desire, we can do a comparison and share the results. My kind of fun.

i'm game for comparing all three if you want to (and if we are still having fun after the 1st and 2nd). the great part is that i get to watch you do multiple set-ups and continue my apprenticeship of "pivoted arm set-up 101".

btw, for those not aware Vetterone is Steve Dobbins who built wonderful plinths for both my Garrard 301 and my Technics SP-10 Mk3.

OK, just mounted the 2nd Ortofon MC A90 cartridge (ser# 079) on the Dobbins Technics SP-10 Mk3 with Reed 'L' arm playing thru the Allnic H3000. previously i had briefly mounted my first A90 (ser# 008) so it's not the first time on the Technics. right out of the box it's pretty nice. i'm listening to 'For Duke', which can be a bit 'bright' and forward when things are not right. it's behaving and the cymbles are 'right', the Trumpet 'blat' is alive but not edgy. more info and energy than from the Garrard/Triplaner on first impressions, with a larger soundstage. 12" arm?

a bit closed in but i'm excited to finally, after 2 years, have three tt's set-up with similar level cartridges at the same time. i've been listening to many hours of vinyl recently on the Rockport and Garrard.....so my reference is pretty good. the Technics/Reed is really a lively combination. the music leaps from the grooves.

more later.

further impressions of the Technics SP-10 Mk3--Reed 'L' 12" with the A90......as compared to the Garrard--Triplaner--A90. about 6-7 hours. dialed in more, running 2.27 grams and slightly up in the rear.

the Technics/Reed has a wonderful tonality, energy and spaciousness that the Garrard cannot match (although the Garrard-Triplaner is no slouch in these areas). as i mentioned, the music has a tension and sense of live-ness that leaps from the grooves. unlike the Garrard-Triplaner, there is no 'added' rounded pulse to the bass, but the bass is quite a bit more impactful and has more 'pop' and 'jump'. the noise floor is lower and so there is more detail and ambient retreival.

the Garrard still has it's own sexiness which is different; but i think the Garrard with a Reed/A90 might be quite the deal.....adding the greater tonality and spaciousness of the Reed (or is that the Technics?) to the Garrard attributes.

i wonder how much difference Steve Dobbin's new platter for the Garrard might make in this comparison?

not to be missed; the growl of a cello on the Technics-Reed-A90. i'm listening to a DG Mozart string quartet as i type and the tonality is wonderful. sweet, vibrant, and almost glowing. the cello really resonates and decays like it's in the room.

Lew, the 12 inches of wood (cedar) in the Reed 'L' can only help the tonality. what i'm hearing reminds me of the Schroeder Ref SQ i had on the SP-10 Mk2, but with better dynamics. the Schroeder was probably a bit more lush (at the expense of some articulation) but the inner detail in the mids is similar.

as far as Reed/A90 interaction; i think that the Triplaner also works well with the A90; but the Triplaner is just not as exciting and involving an arm as the Reed. the Reed has more to say. from reading other feedback on the A90 i've not yet heard about a 'bad' A90 arm.

as far as the Technics SP-10 Mk2 being 'sterile'; my opinion is that comment says more ablout the context of the listener and their experience than anything objective about the tt. in my experience; the most involving gear reveals the most information correctly. my Dobbins/Terchnics SP-10 Mk2 with the Schroeder Ref SQ arm was anything but sterile. i really do not have any experience with any Lenco's so i can't comment on that.

beyond the review of the A90 in Stereophile, i did speak to Fremer at RMAF about the A90.....which was early October. the November Stereophile had not yet been mailed which contained the review, but it was being given away at RMAF (although i had not yet read it). i had had my A90 for about 30 days and mentioned to Mikey how much i liked it.

first; he was surprised i had one and thought it had not yet been offered for sale.

he said that what was unique and 'game-changing' about the A90 was that it offered such a superior neutrality to anything else he had listened to at a relatively moderate price, but even more than that the process of manufacturing the body was an application of technology way beyond anything any cartridge manufacturer had done. it allowed the specific characteristics in the body to be 'built-into' the stainless steel structure.....and these characteristics could be 'tuned' easily by altering the process of construction. he felt that other cartridge manufacturers would have to follow this lead to compete.....thus it 'changed the game'.

A90 Alert!!!!

no, nothing wrong with my A90's. relax.

i would like to bring attention to an issue we discovered this past weekend we had 3 different A90's on three different tt's at the same time.....and .....they all had dramatically different ideal VTF's!

i have my first A90 which has approx 120 hours. it had been on my Triplaner/Garrard where we had found that 2.20 grams (as measured by a Winds gauge) was ideal. we had done this work when this A90 had about 90 hours on it. this past Saturday we mounted it on a new Reed 2P/Garrard and began our final set-up at 2.20 grams. we then spent the next 45 minutes (Steve Dobbins, Jonathan Tinn and myself) dailing it in. we went down and down and down....it just kept getting better. we never measured, just followed our ears. finally we settled on a VTF that was best. then we measured....1.55 grams!!!!

then we mounted Steve's A90 (with approx 40 hours on it) on 'the Beat' tt with a 10.5 inch Reed 2P. we went thru the same process and ended up at 1.91 grams.

lastly; my second Reed (with approx 60 hours on it) is on the Rockport and i had had it it at 2.20 grams. after those other experiences our eyes were openned. so we tried both heavier and lighter. we ended up at 2.06 grams.

all three of those experiences were last Saturday.

Sunday afternoon; before we packed up 'The Beat' we revisited the set-up on each tt. our prior set-ups held exactly the same.

note; we used both my Winds Gauge good to one hundreth of a gram and a similar gauge of Steve's which both calibrated to within one one-hundreth of a gram with each other. this was not an issue of questioned measurments.

we were all a bit confused by how we could have 3 so radically different VTF's on three same model cartridges. not only that; but the Ortofon A90 MC is likely the most consistent from piece to piece in actual contruction of any cartridge ever built. all three of these A90's sounded wonderful....marvelous.

my caution would be to keep your mind and ears open as to what VTF might be ideal for your A90. this is not onje of those times when you can be confident that another users experiences will be useful for your A90 set-up; ya gotta listen.

my second Reed (with approx 60 hours on it) is on the Rockport

typo---i meant my 2nd A90, not my second Reed (even thougfh i do have 2 Reeds).

Changster;

back in 1999--2001 i owned a Clearaudio Insider Gold. it was an excellent cartridge at the time and replaced my much loved (and only recently sold) Koetsu RSP in my sustem. then i was exposed to the vdH Colibri; which suplanted the Insider in my system and i sold the Insider.

i have only heard the Goldfinger (v.2) at shows; where i have mostly liked it. at RMAF it has been on the big Clearaudio tt's in the Audio Unlimited rooms. if i had to guess about how it compares to the A90 i would say it's in the same general performance catagory. without spending time with a Goldfinger v.2 in my system it would be hard to speculate much more than that.

but the sound is breathtaking. I have a wide soundstage, excellent extension at the top and bottom ends, fantastic dynamics, incredible tracking, and probably the greatest realism I have ever heard.

Norm, i thought you were through with tt's?

8>)

i'm happy to hear you are enjoying the A90.