I'd love to hear the impressions of people who've actually spent some time with these speakers to share their sense of their plusses and minuses. Mapman here on Audiogon is a big fan, and has shared lots on them, but I'm wondering who else might be familiar with them.
Thanks guys, My setup is going to be 2-channel with no sub. I am going to play with Dirac and see what type of results I am going to get. As you guys have suggested, room correction really comes in handy when blending the sub and other channels together. I will certainly give it a shot and let you know my findings with just having a stereo configuration. In general, what is your guys' take on ohm speakers (stereo mode) without having a sub used in home theater? I am hoping that the 10" driver will produce enough bass that I would not want to consider adding a sub. I have never been too crazy about the surround channels and don't care for subs when it comes to music playback.
rodm_2001 - While I do not apply room correction to my 2000s when listening to music in stereo, I do use a Pioneer AVR for film and TV viewing. This AVR has Pioneer’s MCACC room EQ program. It works quite well, and the results are pleasing with my Ohm center, Ohm MWT surrounds, Def Tech sub and Paradigm Atom rear surrounds. But I don’t have any desire to apply this room EQ to my stereo music signal chain.
Thanks Peterr53 and bondmanp! I recently purchased an Arcam SR250 to serve the speakers. They are only rated at 90 watts per channel but from what the Arcam rep and John told me, those receivers are rated very conservatively and they should not have any problem driving the Ohms. they run in pure class A for the first 20 watts or so. Has anyone attempted to try room correction software like Dirac with Ohm speakers? I am guessing that omni-directional speakers won't work very well with room correction software since the whole idea of pin-point calibration of the speakers for the listening position goes against the core competency of omni-directional speakers.
Congrats, Rodm2001 ! Please remember to allow plenty of break-in time before reaching any conclusions. Also, leveling the speakers with the floor and each other does, IME, make a difference, even if John Strohbeen might disagree with me :-)
These speakers do need some POWER so feed them as much as you can. No such thing as too much wattage for those babies. Play around with placement, as they can get boomy to close to any wall surface. please let us know when they're installed and a few of us here very familiar with anything OHM related...
Ordered my first ever Ohm speakers. I went with the super sound Cylinder with a 10" driver. I will keep you guys posted once I receive them. I had a pair of Tekton Double Impacts on order and my wife made me cancel them due to their LARGE footprint. My expectations are high and hopefully these speakers are going to exceed my expectations :)
Greetings everyone. Things are moving forward slowly as I had a bout of RA which really suck but I'm working around the issues.
As of last time I questioned the upper part of the cabinet, design wise. I though it was to soft not angular enough. So the changes were made and I think the look is cleaner and a little more masculine, hope you like it...
Tomorrow is cutting (routing) the last opening for the passive radiators. The bottom panels will be cakewalk, then it's on to the second cabinet.
If anyone thought it seemed like a chore to figure out the cabinet design, it's nothing compared to the mind games I'm going through regarding the finish..... Auto lacquer, Plasti-dip, Veneer etc, etc. As I said before I want something awesome, one of a kind, interesting and or shocking! Sounds easy, but not really as everything has been done literally. So I finally figured it out...But won't tell until the big reveal.
As for my speakers and all the changes I made in the last few weeks I finally went out to the shop this morning with the decision to finish certain aspects of the design. This means I can most likely be on schedule by tomorrow.
Hey Joejoe did you get a hold of the moderator. Must be you're tired of seeing this thread popping up, and refusing to die...lol I know how to get a hold of a moderator, just write something inflammatory and I guarantee an email with contact info will be in your inbox like one, two, three.
Peter - Thanks again for the update. Being able to tune the bass "Q" is a wonderful feature. My subwoofers have that (Vandersteen 2Wq).
Seperately, I had a good listen to Magico S5 MkII speakers at an audio club meeting last Sunday. No, my Ohms are not as good as the Magicos. But the presentation was very different - top-down is how I would describe it, while my system is definitely bottom-up. Here is my point: While I find the Ohms pretty good at detail resolution, they are not so transparent (or ruthless) that poorly recorded music becomes unlistenable. The Magicos are that type of speaker: So pure, so clean, and so revealing, that inferior source material becomes unlistenable. Every bit of excess brightness in a recording, a poor soundstage, and any number of problems with the recording becomes so annoying that listening to that music is not a pleasent experience. Would I like the purity and the freedom from distortion the Magicos (along with a pretty expensive chain of electronics) are capable of? Sure. But not if that meant I could no longer listen to the music I love because it was poorly recorded or mastered. Anyway, at $38K the pair, for me, it’s just an academic question!
Living in California is da bomb, weather is perfect, skies are blue, and the political climate is pretty agreeable (for me at least). But it's hot, it's not even summer and we're already bouncing in to the low 90's, making shop work a proposition of perspiration and heat exhaustion. Not complaining as I do love my life here in Cali, but I do miss some cooler days.
As you read in my previous post the project is a (free flow) expression of my ideas, hopes and wild mind. I do love the creative part of my self, but sometimes I don't know when to stop. And that's what happened here, it looked great, but I decided to change a few angles here and there, to enhance the look of the cabinet.....BOOM
Suddenly I realized that I fu@#d up.......by adding one to many angles I made the mounting area a tad to small for the Walsh driver.
After walking aimlessly around Home Depot last night with the hope I would find a tool that would solve my problems.......... (did not happened). I went back to the shop and solved the problem just like that. So I should have a perfect solution done by tomorrow I hope.
Sorry for the absence, but I made some changes and with that I ran in to the proverbial MDF wall. As the first unit is the pattern for the second one, things get fluid and before you know it something will throw everything of kilter..Damn Left the shop this evening feeling a little better and I most likely managed to save the bacon. The passive radiators look great with the dark grey anodizing finish. I'm excited as the units are tunable for how tight or loose you want sound to be, cool stuff. No images today, but we are getting closer to test fitting of all the big drivers and with that take measurements for the tweeter bridge which I think will be the piece de resistance..... ;)
So the next next milestone was reach late this afternoon. After a day filled with MDF and expletives, I finally got to what you see in the image.... The shape is spot on what I was looking for, and I wanted the Walsh driver to sit flush (ish) with the top surface of the cabinet so you can't see all the bolts. I am still thinking about welding up a metal fence contraption with some Damascus steel unless I change my mind. As you can see I started the holes for the passive woofer but realized that a router bit can only plunge that deep. I tried my trusty jigsaw, but that didn't reach deep enough so I got to get a sawsall in the morning. Yes the sidewall is over 3" deep at most points, so a longer blade will solve that problem.
Next week I'm starting the housing and standoff for the ribbon tweeter. I'm thinking CNC machined aluminum, CF and some hi tech looking bolts to allow the housing to move in any axis. And I might change my my mind on that one too. But I promise it will look killer when I'm done... https://www.flickr.com/gp/147883144@N08/07C94c
It's 1:15 in the morning, and my mind is racing....
So after having a lovely Easter with friends and family, I got home watched some F1 racing (the only sport I love) and man was it a good race.
So I decided against using veneer as a finish option, not that it's hard but I think I want something hyper modern, something that pulls the eye towards the speaker. So automotive paint it will be, color is still up in the air, but blue, orange or...... You get the Idea, it's got to look super 😎 (cool).
Tomorrow it's router day, the openings for the passive radiators. I will counter sink the units 3/4" with a bevel making the unit less proud. Im also looking towards buying a new amp as I'm doing an electronic crossover I will need six Channels of amplification. Got the amp for the Walsh units and the rear facing tweeters. I I also need one for the front tweeters. I want something killer so I've been looking at a Firstwatt F6 stereo amp. Low power but I'll barely need any for the tweeter unit.
Took Friday of as I didn't feel like getting dusty, and my back needed some rest as this mother is starting to reach "I can't move it by my self" proportions. The positive side is I'm getting a good workout on a daily basis.
The plan was to finish most of the facets on the edges of the cabinet and I manage to reach the goal. The process sound simple, but is anything but. Each angle has to be layed out and carefully measured for accuracy. The upper bevel has to be cut from two sides as my circular saw can only reach a cut depth of 2.5". Next step will be to add 1.5" above the speaker opening. It will also get angles cut on all sides and a wide rabbet. The Walsh driver will mounted on a 3/8" aluminum ring floating on a urethane gasket and then bolted to the cabinet (or something like that) as I might change my mind. I have also wrestled with finishing options, I'm thinking a blue automotive finish, or veneer the cabinet with Birdseye maple with a deep blue stain and clear lacquer coat....So many possibilities https://www.flickr.com/photos/147883144@N08/shares/9cY30G
Im going back to my beer and I hope you all have a good Easter Holiday......🇸🇪
So I woke up this morning and knew that I finally had to make some decisions regarding the look of the cabinets...Wow The cabinets are incredibly solid, very heavy and the cabinet walls are on an average three inches thick (3") so there's a lot of material that can be shaped without even touching the original cabinet. Thank God for routers and circular saws as it makes my job easy. As you can see, I managed to cut in some bevels on the bottom and the sides. The top bevel will be a bit deeper but the bottom will stay pretty much as is. You can also see the pencil marks for 12" passive radiators one on each side of the speaker..... https://www.flickr.com/gp/147883144@N08/7wv68E
Way back in the early 80's I had a cabinet shop in Venice, I built anything under the sun just so I could go racing. But years later I realized that it was a hard job to push sheets of MDF and hardwood ply through my Powermatic. The dust was part of me, and it sucked as much then as it does today. One day I got an offer from an Audio company and I Said see you later to the dust. Anyway, as You can see things are getting glued up and clamped with my work out equipment....lol I thought I would have all the sides glued up by now, but I had some other duties around the house to take care of first. As I'm getting closer and closer to the point were I have to lock in the design (and shape) I'm vasilating back and fourth how to do it and where to do it.
I did lock in the passive woofers for sure, and the facets cut in to the cabinets will look killer me thinks. To do the facets I have to make some simple jigs, nothing complicated, but it has to be very precise or it's going to look like crap. The images shows a sheet of MDF getting glued up, and a small test piece that I can use for a test cut. https://www.flickr.com/photos/147883144@N08/shares/16m61t
so having a table saw that decides to never, ever let loose of the old blade sucks but its my main cutting tool, not up to the level I use to have in my cabinet shop but the one I have. Finally I said screw it, I'm going tho spend some cash $$$$ and get a great saw and ladies and gentlemen, I got more done today then I had in my last three. MDF is a bitch to work with if you hate dust. First layer of MDF is on the speaker, tomorrow the second layer will be all ready to go by early afternoon. The thing is like a neutron star, some serious weight, and thats without a Walsh driver, 2 passive 12" woofers and the tweeter assembly. I think we'll be closer to 200lbs. So I'm building a platform with wheels so I can rotate the assembly To cut the faceted 'areas on the cabinet.
For a good start of the day have an espresso or two....🇸🇪
So as you can se I did some "Thinking" and the shape has changed as fast and as many times as I've taken showers. So today I decided that the faceted design is the bees knees. I got MDF in my shop, plenty of glue and drywall screws. The shape will be very "Jewely" chiseled and more shapely.
I do like the truncated pyramid look, but it's getting a little old, so changing the shape could be exciting.
As you can see I roughed out the top with some square wood pegs just so I can have a visual, not necessary a final look but close enough. I will go with a new ribbon tweeter I found, check it out... http://viawave.ru/
The woofer port is another "many shower" issue. I have played around with the idea of keeping the tube I would just compensate for the interior volume. Rectangular port, and finally a passive radiator (PR) on each side of the cabinet..... I might take the leap going with a dual PR set up (2x12") well see and I need to decide which direction I'm going before I start to cut my MDF tomorrow. The cool thing with the PR is that you can tune the port by changing the weight of the cone and spider. The other positive is that I will have less height of the cabinet as I don't have to worry about the bottom port...
So the weight is adding adding up fast, and then I decide to make them heavier...!!
So after a few days of pondering design, shapes and other life altering decisions MDF krept in to my conscience again. MDF is great stuff, easy to cut usually flat and easy to finish....but dusty lol.
So I decided to change the shape a little, I want to add a taper at each corner (as you can see in the image) the outline is the blue tape as a visual. I will add two layers of 3/4" MDF so the bevel/taper will be a little bit more aggressive than in the image.
I think by giving the cabinet a few more angles, the design will perhaps be more modern and hip looking.
Didn't really jump out of the saddle, but needed some breathing room and some away time from Audiogon. I did take some time to re-asses life IE. I watch a crap load of YouTube videos, a few trips to the fridge, and a lot of napping. And I also realized that I can have a triple espresso and take a nap no problem...
So what about the Ohm's? Come on people you didn't think I would give up after all that work...Did you?
Between the naps, the snacking and coffee breaks I been very busy working on the speakers. I finally got to the point were it's looking nice inside the cabinet. Yes all the horizontal layers are done, and I used a large sheet of CF on the inside to stiffen up the mid line of the the cabinet. To add even more stiffness, two horizontal bolts were pre-tensioned between the CF sheets and locked in with epoxy. At some point I realized that if I had no idea what specs the Walsh driver has, I would be up shits creek and all that work would be for nothing. So what to do? As luck has it I was doing some Googling on the internets one night and Voila'..... I found the driver and with that all the specs, lucky me!!
The next step will be to build a vent tube, yes, yes, I now I could just re-use the original 13" tube that came with the speaker, but what fun would that be? So I'm stepping it up and I will try something different, and it won't be round. I might also add 3/4" MDF on the outside of the cabinet for even better sound deadening (unless the whole thing weighs to much).
Thanks, bond My preamp is a highly-upgraded Luminescence octal-based unit, my my regular amps are MFA M120 mono tube amps which are out for servicing and upgrading. My backup amp is a NAD C272 solid state unit,
A few days ago, I began major reconfiguration on my listening room. Hardwood floor instead of carpet, moving the equipment rack to another room, and removing tube traps and and some diffusers. It should be enjoyable and educational to audition all three speakers in the "new" room. The room obviously will be "brighter" and have some "echo," call it my own little audio tabula rasa. I've been putting off DIY sound panels until I live with the room for a while. My tube amps are not home yet. That will add another element. Fun stuff.
ps: Welcome back! That's some pretty impressive company, the S-Fs and the MMGs. I am curious - what electronics are you running the MWTs off of? I have found that upstream gear can make huge difference for Ohm speakers.
I’m back in OHM Land. Scored a very nice pair of Micro Walsh Talls from Craigslist yesterday. I now, finally, "get it" about OHMs. After many months of listening to Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors M’s and a pair of Magnepan MMGs, I have some significant basis for comparison. While I am very fond of both of those speakers and will likely not part with them, in terms of simply listening to music, rather than playing at being an "audiophile", I have to say, that in my small, dedicated listening room, the OHM’s are the speakers which essentially disappear and make it easier to "just listen and enjoy." Thank you all for sharing your collective knowledge and thank you, John Strohbeen for your genius and dedication.
So I've been working on the project for a few days and I realized that I need a break from posting. I love it but it's been a year since I had a small stroke and I do get exhausted quiet easily from physical work. The project is going forward but I will not put any extra pressure on my self to finish the project. t8kc has been a great guy to let me use his speakers, and I feel lucky to have met one of you guys on the forum. So what next? I will be working diligently on getting the project done, but with a little bit less pressure from my self. As soon as I have something exciting to show I promise you'll be the first to see.
Just come home to my home away from home in Örebro Sweden after a delightfull lunch with one of my brothers. I was seriously thinking that moving here would be a strong option in the not to distant future, but Being away for 35 years has made me more American than Swedish in so many ways. I will order up composite and lead metal supplies in the next few days so I can get started with the next phase in the buildup as soon as I get home. For you guys who reads my musings thank you, and I promise that more exiting stuff will be forth coming soon....
I dag är det Fet Tisdag så vi ska äta semlor i kväll....🇸🇪
Thanks, Peter. Rest assured, we are reading and trying to absorb your thoughts. For those of us with no engineering background, your work is amazing. I could never attempt such a thing. I haven't the time, the space, the spare speakers, or the knowledge to do so. I am like Homer Simpson when it comes to DIY. Everything I try ends up looking like the Simpson's spice rack. But, still, I am reading your posts and thinking about what could be done in the future with a pair of used Ohms from ebay at the hands of some capable people I know in my area.
Is there a better place but on an airplane to think? I don't think so, but again there's not much to do, unless your next seat neighbor wants to chat away. After a few pleasantries I started to think about the project. Could there a better approach or should I just go with the pre-planed ideas? .........Nope my brain is going as fast as the outside vista is flying by at thirty five thousand feet.
There are many questions, should it be stiffer, should it give some, might it be better to have layers that absorb but gives a bit? Is there a way to delineate layers, sections, or should the layers have separate pockets of dissimilar materials so it can be dampened in a horizontal plane. The solutions what ever they are, will ultimately change the character of the speaker.
I will come back to these ideas, but I like to give aerodynamics a thought. Does hard, or soft surfaces change how air is pressurized through the cavity? Would it better to make the surface uneven preventing reflections? It wouldn't be to hard to give the surface a mini skyline effect. That could be a good idea in the first cavity as back scatter in to the Walsh driver would be deleterious to the sound quality.
Does adding filler or sound deadening materials minimize the air cavity interaction to the Walsh driver ( the answer is yes but how much is the question). Will a smooth surface build up boundary layers ? I guess at this point (in the plane) a simulation ain't happening on my iPad unless there's a CFD app available...... lol.
So if you took the speaker cabinet closed of the top part with a plate and some sealer, I would use a shop vacc in reverse, a speed controller could be electronic or a simple restrictor plate. A led light inside the cavity, small tuffs of yarn taped to the surface and finally a bore scope so you can see how the air flows between the stiffening layers.
Will the shape of the holes in the plates impinge or add to the flow? Would a convex or a concave surface change anything? Should the holes be rounded over, or is a sharp break in the surface better? By changing the flow over the surface will the vent tube efficiency Increase, or decrease? Would vortex generators break up the boundary layer??
Will the change in the boundary layer give you better sounding or tighter bass? As you are changing the efficiency of the tube will it be possible to change length, ID, or shape. Is it possible to up the efficiency by utilizing the "Coanda effect" by proper shaping.....???
Back to the science of minimizing vibrations, in the horizontal layers/dividers. Each divider sections (as seen in my latest pictures) is made up of dissimilar materials hard, soft and dense. All this to prevent the speaker from leaking out sound that can throw of imaging and proper sound staging. Right now the section is built up of neoprene rubber, glue and cement board. Next layer will be a lead sheet only 1/16" thick glued in with epoxy on top of the cement board.
The first layer of horizontal bracing butts right up to this layer and I have not decided if decoupling the vertical wall from the horizontal brace would be important or not, but I'm leaning towards......yes and no! I am thinking that I will cover the vertical walls with E-glass and CF (On top of the lead sheet) and at the joining surface of the horizontal brace I will use a high shore hardness rubber that will be covered with composite. This will Allow me to have a stronger joint between both surfaces. The horizontal brace will be vacuum bagged allowing a much stronger part. At this point the plan is to use a layer of hard board (as per last image) urethane foam board, E-glass with micro-balloons and CF, the CF will be stacked and clocked for high rigidity In compression. I will also have vertical CF standoffs were applicable.
The vertical surfaces are harder to vacuum bag, but by using a bladder that expands in the cavity it will simulate vacuum bagging but in reverse and it works incredibly well.
Sorry about the length of this post, and I hope someone is reading these thoughts and if not.......Sad! 🇸🇪
Just a pretty picture from somewhere over Iceland...
This is the beginning of the horizontal plates, each level will have a different pattern and different size holes, all to prevent standing waves inside the cabinet. There will also be a fair amount of vertical bracing all to make the stiffest and least resonant parts....
I do have a fair amount of knowledge from the automotive world and with that I like to apply some airflow management to the surfaces. Don't want to give away my ideas yet but I'm sure you will like my ideas.
So the first 4" layer is complete, but not finished. The opening for the Walsh driver is precariously close to the edge of the side wall build up so now I have to make a decision if the I can make the material intrude past the sight line of the driver cone, or the option would be to utilize a softer shapable material.....Hmmm So what should I do? A few options contemplated is leave it alone add some polyester fil glue it in and make it a day..... Or use a material like "Blackhole" to dampen the sidewall surface. I could shape the foam surface a bit so I have a gradual slope in to the cabinet. Lots of ideas in my head, but I would love some input. throw it at me nothing will be discounted unless it's really stupid stuff like depleted uranium, quantum dots and elk horns for bracing...🤓💯
Tomorrow will be tight as I'm leaving for Sweden on Saturday but part of the first horizontal layer is layed out, and all I have to do is making sure the exact dimensions are finished so I can start the CF layup and bagging as soon as I get back....
With my Sweden trip approaching in a few days I'm running out of available time for fun stuff like working on the Ohms....
After the CF ring was installed I did have one more layer to go and that was today's one hour project. The layer from top to bottom contains everything from Butyl rubber, 1/8" aluminum, 1/4" steel, neoprene, 2 types of glue, and finally some 1" felt as you can see in the image (8 layers of metal). The last layer was compressed and glued together with Gorilla glue. If you look closely you can see the the compression bolts pulling it all together. There is also an inside thick layer of non drying clay, neoprene, CF and Gorilla glue bonding the layers together. WOW I know it's a lot but I do want the Walsh drive to be on a super inert 2 3/4" thick surface, no bad vibes....lol https://www.flickr.com/gp/147883144@N08/277b0L
The second image is after the compression screw were installed. These will be replaced with real bolts and then Loctited with the red stuff and a big blob of epoxy to lock it in forever. https://www.flickr.com/gp/147883144@N08/F7mV30
The third image is the first of the cabinet reinforcement puzzle. the first layer is the checkered neoprene which allows the glue to wet through the layer and subsequently stick to the inside wall. The thicker part of the part is cement board, totally dead and great to work with. https://www.flickr.com/gp/147883144@N08/56r210
Fourth image is the part installed on the inside wall, you can see the Gorilla glue expanding which is great as I will know that the glue is filling up all nooks and crannies:) Removing the expanded foam does take some elbow grease, but a sharp chisel and some acetone will take care of it. To keep the part from floating away you do have to clamp the piece down. https://www.flickr.com/gp/147883144@N08/56r210
The idea to keep standing waves waves from building up in the cabinet I will stack the surfaces in an unusual pattern allowing the surface To avoid it as much as possible. The edge of the part is were the first horizontal brace start. It will be built up with hard board honeycomb and carbon fiber. Attached will be a special secret sauce aluminum extrusion that will be a vibration damper attached with a very low shore hardness silicone ;)
The difference between stock cabinet and the new layers attached is amazing. A thud and no ringing is very exciting indeed.
The problem with being semi-retired is that I have way to much time on my hands, I'm not complaining or bitching about it, but My mind I kind of welded to the project at hand and with that nothing else gets done.
So in the middle of the night right after the last post I had an idea. You see the image of my vacuum pump for composite work....You can see were this is going lol Damn I really wanted to shy away from the expensive stuff, but a few layer of CF won't kill the project money wise, plus working with composites is fun as you can make shapes that otherwise would take a rapid prototype machine or a five axis machine to produce.
There might be more this afternoon, but I need to get stuff ready for the Sweden trip later this week.
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