Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?
Frazeur1.... Thank you for chiming in regarding a few of my findings. The thing that really got me when I first got my Ohm's was why does the speaker have to go through so many "filters" before hitting my ears, let me explain a little further. The tweeter and the Ohm Walsh driver has to pass (4) four layers of a passive filter media before reaching your ears...!! A foam layer, a perforated steel can layer, and a fabric grill layer, you might be saying, Peter that's three layers....yes, but after they build the cans, and close them up they spray the cans black, so what happens is that the open cell foam becomes clogged with paint and blocks even more high frequency energy from escaping the Cans. I always listen to all my speakers naked, with the exception for the maggies. All of them sound better without the grilles period. I will have more time this week to play with my rear tweeters and it's amazing how the sound field collapses when turned of. Peace out...🇸🇪 |
Yes, Merry Christmas to all! Peter, I do find that tweeks to Ohms can be interesting, and many have to chose to tinker and play. But my thoughts are simply once done, they really aren't "Ohms" anymore, but your own take on what you would like them to be. Nothing wrong with that of course, after all, they are yours to do whatever you hear fit for them! I do watch and read with interest, however! I also agree a bit on some of the build quality, while it may not necessarily affect the sound quality, the soldering and general shoddy workmanship leaves a bit to be desired, and the sad part is, it takes no more time or expense to actually do a decent job of it. I have probably seen under the cans of too many Ohms, and they all look pretty terrible in general. As you say though, ignorance can be bliss, and indeed, what is inside the mystical can. More to come later. I haven't followed up much, just little off and on. I am hoping to get a listen to one of my friend's brother's Ohm Walsh 5000 system from Germany, which is their active speaker system. I do think active crossovers can have serious benefits if done right, and I am curious why John Strohbeen maybe hasn't exploited this here in the US as the crew in Germany has. Will post back if this all comes together. |
Hi  Bondmanp... As I started this project, I had my doubts ( manufacturers knows best) but the more I was digging in to the design I saw some glaring issues, some to save time in manufacturing and some mainly to save a few bucks. If you leave the cans closed, blissful ignorance will add some mystic and tucked away magic to the mix, and it's easy to want to hear what you want to hear when you spent big bucks on the product. As you figured out, no stone will be unturned to make this the best damn Ohm speaker I know how to make. So finally I want to answer your question...😆 When I first Installed the ribbon tweeter, I could tell I had something special going but it was very, very harsh the first few day IE. Spitty, harsh with a glassy overtone. And I started to second guess my choice of driver, three days later the family wanted to watch a loud movie with all the pre-requisite explosions and other hard hitting audio, and wouldn't you know it, suddenly music come alive, gone was all the harshness and glassy over tones. As for the rear tweeter, you read my remarks, it's easy to accomplish and no surgical knowledge is required other then some easy soldering. For the how to, just ask I'll be more than happy give pointers and ideas. Feel free to PM me if you like to talk on the phone. peter....🇸🇪 |
Darn it, Peterr53! You have really stoked my curiousity. Not having any of the DIY skills you do (and even if I did, I have no time, anyway), I am searching through my Swiss-cheese of a memory for people I know and trust that can do this mod correctly and affodably. Just one question: I really like my Ohm Walsh 2000s way with the upper mids and lower treble - not too hot, but with plenty of fine detail. In your opinion, does your mod make this range a lot hotter? I would hate to do this mod and lose the smoothness I enjoy in this part of the band. Thanks! |
It's an hour later....... I think my jaw is wide agape, why doesnt Ohm do this to their speakers? Dave Brubeck just left the building, oh my God the changes are dramatic actually bigger than when I changed the front tweeter. The first thing was the changes to the imaging, everything is rock solid, the staging spreads out as a semi circle of whipped cream, tasty, sweet and smooth and the odd thing is that suddenly in all this goodness I find the sweet spot wider then I ever had in my house.....remarkable. There's also a snappier, faster retrieval of leading notes, the attack of drums and even the the reed of an Oboe has more there, there, but man drums are incredible... so slammy (if there's such word).  The height of the sound field is closer to a tall Maggie that the typical point source (Dang). Seriously my total investment in the project might have been $70 give or take a few. Time invested a few hours for now, but I'm so excited that the speakers will be pulled apart asap for more tweaking..... Back soon for more morsels...🇸🇪 |
Xover, volume control and speaker attached in a non invasiv way IE. I might install everything inside the cabinet so I have clean looking backside of the speaker and it does look like a science project that went wrong....lol I will do some listening this evening and evaluate the progress or not. The foam plugs are a deleted item for now and I will re visit them when all the other changes are done.......🇸🇪 |
Sorry for the inactivity the the last week, but as any good husband I promised my wife to paint a room and a hallway before Xmas...😜 I did have some time to meditate earlier this morning, and decided to take the project a little further than I originally decided. The rear tweeter will be in this week so hopefully I'll be able to solder up the X-over and make a custom mount to attach it to the speaker. After Christmas I'm taking the speaker apart, see what can be done to stiffen up the sides and for the bottom I'm thinking, rubber mass loaded with lead shot-gun pellets for more mass. When most mechanical changes are made I'm thinking about re-paint it in a BMW M3 metallic blue, And all the metal parts on the stand will be chromed. Im also going to have my machinist make a low profile swivel mount for the tweeter so the angle of attack can be changed on a whim. Anyway that's it for now...🇸🇪 |
Had a little bit of time this morning to measure speaker response between the foam plug and without. So if you remember I thought the speakers sounded a little better crossing over higher than expected. Soooooooo.......the response curve was worse below 65hz but smoother above 100hz. This was just a fast comparison and nothing definitive I.E. Food for thought. while screwing around the bottom port, I realized the bottom of the speaker rings like crazy so I'm doing something to fix that.... But every time I look on the inside of the speakers I get pissed of when I see 2x4's that look about as old as I am. I also have the rear tweeter, volume control and crossover on the way to rainy SoCal so that should be fun...🇸🇪 |
Back for a small update... Had an hour to spare to fiddle with the port and the foam plug. I had a square of egg-crate foam that I cut in to 5x10" strips rolled them up and inserted the plug in to the bottom port of each speaker. vewy vewy interestiiing.... First I was concerned about closing of the port as it changes the back pressure, but what it did was smoothing down the heaviest bottom frequencies making the package a little less boomy. I used an amazing CD from the movie "Tha last Samurai" tons of high frequencies, and lots of deep deep Japanese Kodo drums with amazing impact and depth. was it better? I will run some tests tomorrow and see how the room responds to the changes. I will also run a frequency sweep and see what it looks like. As mentioned earlier I am adding some tweeters to the back of the speaker, and I was vasilating about active or passive crossover network, I slept on it and decided to make a simple passive xo that I can use the L-Pad to dial in the effect. Should  be exiting as it could add some extra dimension to the sound. I know some people wanted to change the wing-nuts to something more modern and cool looking. Go to www.mcmaster.com click on NUTS and there you go, I'm ordering the THUMB NUTS in SS pretty cool stuff. If you are looking for hardware it the best place ever. Peace....out |
 Hey Mapman.... Nothing feels better than improving on a concept, might it be mechanical, electronic or aesthetic wise. Those OHM L's could be improved in stages, and every time there's an improvement you get closer and closer to the edge of possibilities. Last night as I was listening to some great 24/96 tracks, something magical developed, suddenly I could tell that the tweeters started to relax and got sweeter and lusher......I think they're broken in. Sweet Jesus, Guitar strings were so amazing sounding, I was closer to how my Audiostatic electrostatic speakers sounded like, precise tons of air and incredible speed......You can tell I hate these speakers :)) As I said before I will add tweeters on the back of the speakers and I might re-purpose the Original tweeters, but if I want to use a L-Pad (volume control)  I'll need to go with an 8 ohm  unit. Tried finding a pre made cross over but I might go with the Behringer electronic cross-over if I can't find a solution. I will try to get a test going with foam plugs tomorrow, but I'm starting to build a home automation system around the Amazon Echo (Alexa) so I have to install new wall switches etc. so I can surprise my darling on Christmas morning....🇸🇪 |
Peter whatever the outcome yours is a very unique and interesting DIY endeavor. You are starting out in a very good place sound wise compared to many in my humble estimation. Your findings poking around inside the OHMs is also very interesting for me. I have an older pair of OHM Ls that I bought for a couple hundred dollars new back in 1978 that I have endeavored to upgrade and maintain myself.  I use these currently in a smaller room where my main gear resides.  I have these sounding very competitive with much more expensive modern alternatives, better than ever these days.  I replaced 8" bass drivers with Morel units that cost as much as the speakers pretty much originally.  I also added sub-bass activation circuit JS uses in most of his newer units to help keep bass extended and managed. These still use original paper tweeter and super tweeters and high end sounds very good once properly balanced.  I've considered upgrading the high end drivers as well but have not felt compelled to do it quite yet.  I need to investigate some more but would definitely like to consider trying a folded ribbon tweeter in those just for fun. |
Here's some more changes and ideas to make the Ohm's really, really amazing... One thing I've been realizing is that the higher I cross over the main speakers the better they sound, my theory is that the Walsh driver likes to be un-loaded a bit as bass could possibly swamp the midrange and some tweeting signals.  I will continue to look in to that aspect of the sound. It could also be the reason the smaller speakers sound as good in the upper range. In the next few days I will try an open cell foam plugg in the vent port to see if it changes the quality of the bass. This is of course a guessing exercise and who knows I might hate it. I have also wondered why there's no tweeting in the back, so I'm planing to take the original tweeters, build a simple crossover loaded directly from the speaker wire posts, that way I don't have to hack the original crossover. If this works and I don't see why not, as I had some Von Sweikerts VR4's which used a back firing tweeter to great effect, and I did love those speakers a lot. To control the tweeter I will use a volume control in the circuit.... Back to the tweeter platform build on the 4/5k's.... After considering the options to dampen the (circular) plywood part I decided to use 1/16" thick (3" wide) basswood in three layers with dampening material on the first layer and semi rigid glue between the slats to dampen any further vibrations. All this was glued to the edge of the platform and clamped. So when you look at the platform it now looks like a birthday cake made from plywood covering all the dampening material. After the edge was cleaned up I covered the whole thing with dark grey felt, contact cement made the whole affair super easy and very clean looking :) Sudenly no vibrations just a thud when I tap it. The original set up had a pice of white cardboard glued (hot melt) to the tweeter, in the shape and size of half the platform, the bottom front edged hot glued in on the bottom and then folded backwards in a soft arc to a standoff in the middle of the crossover.  As I changed the tweeter I wanted to cancel as much of a possible back wave so the the felt got folded in towards the back, semi mimicking the original folded cardboard. Any protruding edge got a open cell foam edge to cancel unwanted reflections... The speaker cover is the old style so called black fabric, but to me it looks like faded black anodized aluminum, kind of a purplish color that needs to go, so I found some black, real black stuff that should go a long way to modernize the look. That will do it for now, and I look forward to share the rest of the project very soon...🇸🇪 |
Greetings..... Never  got got back to you last night as we decided to watch something fun, so the last Jason Bourne movie it was. It's amazing what a little bit of speed, Transparancy and tweeter extension will do for the whole experience. Gun shots are so crisp and dynamic, voices are clear and intelligible, all the micro dynamics of surround effects gives the experience a much higher feeling of being there. As for the movie....my wife and son, said good night half way through the plot...😵 Back to the speaker (4/5k's) after removal I took some time to look over the construction around the drivers, the filling/wadding looks out of control so I sheared some of and gave it a better look. Could I hear a difference.....NO The actual platform that the crossover and tweeter assembly is resting on is made from some simple 1/4" plywood, tapping on the forward edge gives out hollow woddy ring that can't be good as vibrations will either ring away when played, or vibrate the tweeter in multiple axis. I have to say that the crossover was very well thought out and looked very tidy indeed. So the idea was to dampen the platform, but there's only so much room vertically and room was a big issue as most tweeters in the style I was looking for was in the 5"-8" height and I needed something in the 4" range. Digging  out the tweeter was easier said en done, as everything was hot-melt glued or potted in some black semi hard epoxy. The black "stuff" prevented me from seeing the wiring, but with my incredible perseverance they were finally relieved of their gooey prison. I do think JS personally made the crossover and possibly assembled the unit as he signed the plywood. Finally I have the tweeter in my hands and I can run a proper impedance test on the unit, 4ohm's give or take so with that I knew what to look for. The problem... The tweeter I wanted was 5 ohm not four, so what to do? I first bought one unit, soldered it on to the center ch to see if anything would  blow up, implode or possibly burn down my house. Nothing of the sort happened, but what I heard was everything previously missing, not perfect but as I previously said it had to do with the size of the Walsh driver not the tweeter. So 5 ohm works like a charm, but I'm lucky that the main cans have options and adjustability for different presentations and room sizes. More to come soon.... |
Back again and I figure I would go over my equipment driving the Ohm's. Amps: Two Emotiva XPA-1 Mono blocks and a Marantz MMA 8003 eight ch amp. Pre-Amp: Marantz 8801 Sub Amp: Behringer EP 4000 2x2000 watts Blu Ray player: BDP-93 Equalizer: Behringer Ultra Curve Pro for center ch Power distribution: Silver Circle Powerchords: Pangea Amp and low power units PS Audio: outlet receptacles with independent (3) 15 amp curcuits Projector: Epson 5020ub Screen: Electric Elite 120"Wide, 1.0 gain 16:9 aspect ratio Subs: Four 18" drivers in a Two custom cabinets vented in under my house (Infinite baffle). Roku Ultra And a Fios 150/150 internet connection Interconnects and speaker cables are a mix of God knows what and I spent to much... ********************************* When I originally decided on my 4/5k's I had gone through a period of extreme worry as I had been told I had kidney cancer, so I felt very nostalgic about my choice I.E. I wanted something cool reminding me of my youth. So I decided on the Ohm's after listening to some modern Maggie's. As a matter of fact I called JS on the way to my surgery to let him know what style of wood I wanted...lol A looooooong time later the units arrived in boxes bigger than expected wow, I do have to say the packaging was amazing and we'll conceived. But the plan is to keep the speakers until my ultimate demise so who needs big boxes. As I got to know my 4/5k's I did have some reservations, mostly about the finishing , fit and finish and the CASTERS, as for the CANS  I could only guess what was hiding inside the murky innards. I used a bright flashlight, but it was very very hard to figure out. At this point I decided to concentrate on the cabinet. The vener finish was very boring and just OK nothing special so I called a friend who paints cars and before you know it the cabinets were painted in a charcoal metallic grey high gloss finish. I made two concrete molds 3" thick for a heavy dense platform. Next I had a frame made up to rest the speaker on and four CNC machined stainless steel posts....It does look freeking cool and with painted cabinets it's looking like 2016 not the 70's. I rotated the can independently from the cabinet, as it would look weird toed in. At this point I had to bite the bullet and with that I opened them up leaving the back half in place as all the switches need to stay as is. Again WOW! It's like an Easter egg when you were a kid, it could be amazing.....or not. Compare to the small units some care had been taken, but Damn its 3rd world industrial design at best. At this point I knew there was no going back and forget any warranty...lol The plan was simple "control the stuffing" dampen the platform everything was attached to, clean up the design, add silver wiring extensions and solder in the new tweeter. Here is a verbatim explanation. HiVi RT1C-A Planar Isodynamic Tweeter The vibrating element of a planer tweeter is almost weightless in comparison to a dome tweeter. The element consists of Kapton film with a pattern of aluminum conductors which is placed precisely between two Neodymium bar magnets. It provides an immediate and precise response to any transients in the original signal. These drivers are magnetically shielded and feature a linear phase response which provides time coherent reproduction resulting in accurate musical rhythm and imaging. Unlike other conventional tweeters and electrostatic speakers, the RT1C and RT2a have an extremely wide sound dispersion in the horizontal plane. At the same time, they have a well controlled sound dispersion in the vertical plane. This helps to avoid disturbing floor and ceiling reflections in a home environment thus enhancing clarity and imaging accuracy. The RT1C features a radiating area of 50 x 13mm and a round cast aluminum face plate. Although designed to be used with either the F5 or F6 bass/midrange drivers in a small 2-way system, it is also well suited for 3-way applications. Recommended second order crossover cut-off frequency - from 3kHz. Got  to eat dinner " I'll be back" |
It’s true aesthetics don’t matter and are out of sight and mind inside those cans. A nice design advantage for sure. Even hot glue can be used to good effect apparently since you don’t have to look at it. I suspect it might even have some useful damping qualities sonically but just a guess. French speaker maker Triangle uses paper for bass drivers in their speakers which are some of the fastest and most detailed around for the money but those are in plain sight and made to a higher aesthetic standard as well accordingly. If the sound is not up to par for the money then that’s totally different. I still run Ohm Ls with paper tweeter over other newer much fancier and expensive models from other brands. Ribbon tweeter would be nice there I’m sure. Paper ain’t fancy but can sound surprisingly good. Of course a lot of cheap bad sounding speakers have used paper and other tweeters over the years as well. Did the the center channel speaker use paper tweeter also? I’m a two channel only guy so can’t really vouch for anything when it comes to surround sound. Did the surrounds all sound similar bad or were issues with just some? You should ask JS why he uses paper tweeters in the surrounds other than for the fact they likely help keep manufacturing costs low.  I find it hard to believe he would use bad sounding parts in his speakers.  im pretty sure he does not use ribbon tweets because ribbons tend to be highly directional which is not the Ohm Walsh thing. |
Back again... Bondmanp If you did hear my changes you would be blown away. Suddenly I have total and utter Transparancy and speed, could it be better? Yes I could I wish for more dynamics, but the Walsh driver is tiny and can't hang with my fronts...Wish I have more space to expand the unit to a larger one. By the way, it looks like the tweeter is the same as the 4/5k's  1" softdome tweeter. I'll get back to the driver and my thoughts in a bit. Now to the surrounds.... I have six spread out as, front heights, surrounds and rear surrounds enveloping me in a lovely sound field. ********************************************************************************** If you don't want to hear anything negative please scroll past the next few sentences. ********************************************************************************** As I previously said I took the can opener to all (9) of my Ohm's and I had no idea what to expect, but what I found inside the  Walsh Satellites was.......shocking and absolutely sub par, total diy a mess of proportions  that was way below the worst I ever seen. For some reasons Ohm thinks that out of sight is out of mind (I will not post any images) but let's say that hot-melt glue was liberally applied to the point of glue dripping everywhere like stalagmites In a horror movie. The Walsh driver looks cheap and the paper tweeter is an incredibly cheap ($2-$3) retail driver, two out of six had collapsed dust caps. As this is a $700 a pair of speakers, there's no excuses for this kind of horrible craftsmanship and I hope someone at the factory take this to heart and make some changes. ************************************************************************************** After getting over over the shock, I decided to replace the tweeter with a $17 Dayton ND25-FA-4 unit. To remove the crap paper tweeter I had to break lose the glue with an exacto knife and a sharp chisel and un-solder the driver without trying to ripp out any caps or resistors that were hot-glued to the tweeter. Installing the tweeters was easy peasy and I was able to aim the tweeters to my required situation due to a slopping roof line. Result: Smoother tweeting all the way around, with more air and refinement and less stress at high levels. Now we're talking and I feel much better about my investment. PS. I still had to use hot-melt glue.....lol Just got a few Robert Shaw CD's in mail so I'm signing off for now and I'll get back to the big boys in a bit....🇸🇪 |
Among whatever other differences there might be a ribbon tweeter would be significantly more directional than a soft dome. Â That alone could make a difference in regards to intelligible vocals especially depending on room acoustics. Â I would wonder if it if it affects the size of sweet spot for music as well?. Â Â |
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peterr53 - Wow! You answered one of my nagging questions: How would Ohms sound with a ribbon tweeter? So, we have to ask, which tweeter did you use? Is it a folded-type? I have really liked most of the Heil-type folded ribbon tweets I have heard. While the Ohm tweeter in my 2000s is good, I have long felt that it is not the strongest part of the design. I am helpless and hopeless when it comes to DIY, but I know some people who are quite good. Not sure I want to put my Ohms under the knife, but, you never know! BTW, I like my Ohm center, in stock form, just fine. I sit pretty close, (~9 feet), and have a stand that aims the driver and tweeter right at my ears. But I do not doubt your own experience. |
Hi guys lurking a long time and a owner of a set of 4/5000 with the pyramid cabinets. Included in my 9.2 system I have an Ohm center, and matching Walsh satellites. As an Video/Audiophile I did have need for deep, deep infinite baffle  bass when needed so I built a set of subs with four 18" drivers rattling everything including my neighbors false teeth. As a self inflicted dyi person that can never leave anything alone (ever) ;) I had to fiddle with the center channel as it really kind of sucked. Ineligibility was incredibly poor (JS did make some changes to the crossover) I was still very unhappy but figured it would break in at some point but never did. Tried different cables ran Audessey but no avail it still sucked. At one time I was almost strong armed in to change the speaker by my wife as she couldn't understand some of the dialog ( me too). Finally  my curiosity got the better of me and VOILA' the perforated can over the drivers were removed........Dang that's  all I can say, by now you might figured out that all the speakers fell under the knife!! Before I continue, I will start from the end... I now think I have something very special that sounds fantastic, were I felt no connection to the music and movies I now have  Air, Transparancy, Intelligebility, amazing Imaging and sound staging wider that any speaker I ever owned. I also have to say that JS is a very nice guy who will take care of any issues I ever had imagined or real... So anyway back to the center ch, I also fashioned up a horn like device around the now naked driver. It seemingly helped to throw a more intelligible sound field, BUT it wasn't right, it started to sound compressed and weird. Out went the horn and snip, snip..... The tweeter went in the pile of never to be used again parts. As a previous owner of Maggie's, and a few electrostatic speakers the idea of adding a planar ribbon was incredibly hard to resist, yes a planar ribbon tweeter, but it had to be small enough to fit within the 3" or so measurement height wise as I did want to re-use the grill cover. Parts Express had the perfect driver (after cutting away part of the flange), that met the requirements. KAPOW dang and holy cow, now I can even understand weird British accents and my wife is very happy indeed. To match the fullness of the 4/5k I added a parametric equalizer to the mix to fatten up the sub 1k frequencies and smoothing of a small 2k room anomaly. I will have more coming and if it's possible I will post images or a YouTube video in the next few days...🇸🇪 Stay Tuned... |
I've found that Ohms can handle surprisingly large spaces, well in excess of recommendations.  I have a pair of  OW 2000s in a 15'x30' combined living and dining room, having had the 2s and 2OXs before them. (None of these models could be described as remotely strident--Ohms have a well controlled high end that steadily improved with each generation, but did not result in that hyper-real artificial etched imaging sought by many audiophiles.) The room is significantly larger than Ohm's recommendation for the 2000s (the 3000s are the recommended speaker size). Yet, they fill the space wonderfully well from the highs through the low bass.  The only problem I had was a need to tame a boomy bass that resulted form my bare hardwood floor over a crawlspace.  The downward firing port made the floor vibrate like a giant drum head. Placing the speakers on granite slabs was very helpful in cutting down the boom and tightening up the lowest frequencies.  This accords with those pointing out floor interactions as often in need of correction. |
ps-my opinion only, but I would think the 1000's would be fairly ideal in that space. I had a pair of MWT's in a space a bit bigger, was still surprised at how well they sounded, not lost in the space at all. Obviously a little bass limited perhaps depending on exact listening position, but wonderful music. All depends on expectation level maybe? |
bondmanp: Thanks for sharing your experience with the lengthy break-in period for your 2000’s. In retrospect, perhaps I was too hasty when I decided to return them. Hmmmm. Darn it, why didn’t you call me? :) You’ve got me thinking.... So now I have a question for myself, how well would a completely broken-in pair of 1000’s do in a small 11’ x 13’ room which is open to the living room and partially open to the kitchen?. Not looking for high volume nor accurate presentation of larger orchestral works of course. It’s premature for me to even be considering this, but I’ve got a lot more yesterdays than  tomorrows. :)  These days, I don’t play my system that much when my wife's at home anyway. I may give the small OHM’s a try if I find a used pair at an attractive price. RE: man cave. If I were back in my rock and roll days, or maybe just a couple of decades younger, I’d probably love one as you described. The posters in this thread have uniformly maintained a level of civility that is refreshing. Thanks to all. |
ps: FWIW, my 2000s continued to break in for about 6 months, although I cannot tell you exectly how many hours that was. "Strident" is the last thing that I would call my 2000s. I don't doubt what your wife was hearing, but it seems odd to me. I do think that if there is any range in which the 2000s miss a step, it is in the 7-8kHz range where the tweeter kicks in. I would say that this range is at least as good as many competing speakers in that range, although perhaps no better. martykl: Long Live the Man Cave! Stacks of black boxes with lights, ugly racks, wires everywhere and my 2000s. All in the basement where nobody cares what it looks like, only what it sounds like! frazuer1: Totally agree with you about this thread. Mapman: Exactly. Your post took the words out of my mouth (or the keystrokes out of my hands). |
I have SF Cremonas with a Pathos amplifier and CDP player in my living room. Â It looks great and sounds very nice. Â I have my Ohms, subs, and ugly black boxes in my listening room. Â Doesn't look nearly as nice, but sounds a helluva lot better (to my ear, anyway). Â Different tools for different jobs. |
One of the things I have enjoyed throughout this very lengthy thread, is that there may be differing opinions on the sound, the quality of build, many things in general about Ohm, but it seems to stay very civil. In this day and age of folks hiding behind the almighty computer, this is nice. It is good to hear differing opinions, yet not get smacked for it! The knowledge base in this thread has been very good, and very helpful for many I would say! |
ps I’ve heard Sonus faber and often considered owning a pair for much the same reason. I find the tonality of SF and OHM when done well to be somewhat similar. I have a pair of Dynaudio Contour monitors I run as well. Has the Danish rather than Italian aesthetic but I consider them to be a gold standard of good hifi sound for their size and also with excellent build quality like good Sonus Faber. I acquired them prior to my current OHMs to see if I could settle on a smaller monitor. If the bass extension was just a tad better, and the overall presentation just a bit more lifelike to me, it might have happened. Who doesn’t like beautifully crafted things? Still always different strokes.... Cheers and Good Listening! |
"ps: Out of curiousity, how long did you audition he Ohms? What about the sound prevented you from "falling in love"? TIA." Hi bondmanp: About 175 hours.  During break-in I would play them at about 75 -85 db and leave the house while I ran errands. My wife is blessed with an extraordinary pair of ears- I'm envious.  She could not listen to the speakers,  even at low volumes.  She found them strident.  She did not pressure me to return them but was happy when I did.  I also realized that as much as I thought I'd like the soundstage that OHMs produce, I really did not, preferring more  precise imaging (some might say this is "musically artificial").  My Sonus Fabers give me that. Perhaps I'm being too critical with regard to fit and finish-  but I could not get past the appearance of the veneer on the OHMs. A career as an advertising photographer can do some funny things to a person.  :) The rest of the speaker was solid.  As I said, I'm pretty sure I "get" what Mr. Strohbeehn is doing, and I have enormous respect for his abilities as an engineer.  He was a complete gentleman when I told him that the 2000's simply were not for us and he approved the return.  I do not in any way intend to disparage his company nor his products.  If I have done so, I regret that RE: Sonus Faber, I come from very blue, blue collar roots and my drug of choice is still beer, but in some things I have expensive taste.  I purchased both pairs of my SF monitors used.  Part of the enjoyment I derive from Sonus Faber is visual.  |
Visual aesthetics and the appeal of that aside, there are a couple of kinds of effects cabinets can have on the sound that I can think of: 1) ported cabinet resonances usually at bass frequencies these are usually designed (as is the case with most but not all OHM Walsh) to extend flat response lower but if not done right can result in low frequency bumps in response that would normally be considered undesirable. From what I read, J. Strohbeen goes to great lengths to get this and the porting aspect of the cabinets right and I’ve never seen any data to the contrary. There is a relationship between cabinet design, port and resulting frequency response but in this case sound would not emanate from the cabinet itself. The biggest OHM 5015 models, that JS touts as the best OHMs ever in all regards, with powered subs built in are actually sealed because powered subs eliminate need for the port. I do not doubt his claims on those. 2) If cabinet construction is not up to snuff or defective, then I would think resonances would cause clear noise to be emanating from the cabs due to resonances. Vibrations might normally be felt when touching the cabinets even when things are working exactly as designed/planned. Some speakers are designed to have totally inert cabinets, others not. Not sure what OHMs design take on this is exactly, but I know the "sound" of the cabinet is taken into account to deliver the desired sound. Regarding quality of port materials and other aspects of components that go into the final product, I know JS leans towards delivering a particular high quality sound for more affordable cost. He will clearly choose to use less expensive materials whenever possible if they can do the job well as intended.  he may even know of some advantage to using material like cardboard. Cardboard is a relatively inert material sonically for example. When it comes to sound inert is good usually.  So it may look cheap but do its job in fact quite well. Other speaker makers, particularly those targeting the high end mainly (not OHM) may choose to only use certain materials that will be regarded consistent and appealing to the target market. OHMs approach is clearly very "blue collar" . That’s one of the things I like about the company in particular. They target the best sound possible for the least cost. it will always be different strokes for different folks as evidenced by the variety of solutions people choose to fulfill their music and related needs. With my OHMs, I find room acoustics particularly potential bad interaction between OHM Walsh bottom port and floor to be the most problematic thing to address effectively somehow for true high end sound. In general I think the OHMs sound best when effectively isolated from floor interactions, as is the case with all speakers I own but bottom ported OHMs perhaps an even greater issue to address than with others. I can find no clear faults in regards to the overall sound once the potential floor interactions are under control in my system. I hate to use the word but to my ears its dern near perfect with absolutely nothing offensive ever coming out except perhaps in the case of some of the very loudest and dynamically clipped newer digital mp3 recordings out there and those usually exhibit themselves in the higher frequencies that have really little or no cabinet dependencies with the OHM Walsh design, certainly less than most conventional box designs. That alone may be why perhaps JS is able to not have cabinets built like a tank like some other high performing box designs like Dynaudio and Sonus Faber typically must rely on. I have never encountered it at all as an OHM Walsh owner since 1982 (quite an achievement only a good quality product could accomplish) but if I hear noises or sound coming from the can that are clearly not part of the music, I would suspect some issue inside the can that needs attention and perhaps send them in for a look. That would be the exception due to some issue though, not the norm, at least in my experience. |
ps: Out of curiousity, how long did you audition he Ohms? What about the sound prevented you from "falling in love"? TIA. I do agree with about Sonus Faber, and I have enjoyed Sonus Faber speakers whenever I have heard them. The (rather pricey) pair at the show last week was one of the stand outs. I might have put the Venere 2.5 in contention had they been available in late 2009 when I began my speaker upgrade search. |
Full disclosure: I am a rather "visual" person having made my living as an advertising photographer for decades. For me, the visual design of a product plays a role in how much I enjoy that product. One reason I decided to audition a pair OHM 2000 speakers was their relatively unobtrusive and appealing shape. When they arrived I was dismayed by the lack of craftsmanship that was evident in the construction of the enclosure, particularly the look and "feel" of the veneer. Strictly DIY, I thought. I was surprised at how amateurish the finish work was. I might have kept them if I’d loved how they sounded in my home, but I did not "fall in love." Furthermore, my wife, who is generally disinterested in my audio pursuits, simply could not listen to them. We’ve had Magnepans, and now have a pair of MMGs, and she (and I) much prefer their sound, even if the MMGs are not the prettiest , nor certainly the best-sounding speakers on this or any other block. Yes, the OHMs have more bass. Eventually, and with a nod to all things aesthetic (again, for me), I purchased a pair of Sonus Faber monitors, which are lovely to behold, and not at all "bad" to listen to. :) I get almost as much pleasure from looking at them as I do from listening to them. :) The way they portray detail is damn close to some electrostatics I’ve heard but without any sense of the "clinical." This is simply one man’s take. I really do "get" what the OHM thing is. They’re just not for me. If one loves how they present music, I’m sure it would be relatively easy to overlook the mediocre level of assembly craftsmanship. |
Mapman, I have the newer cabinet in my Ohms. From what I can tell the older cabinets seem to be far better constructed than the new ones. When I replaced a can that was damaged during shipping I posted some photos of the interior of the newer cabinets. Honestly it is pretty low quality including the use of a cardboard tube for the bottom port. I don't think many $3k sets of speakers would use similar "technology." :) |
Frazeur1: I questioned John's assistant about the positioning. Mine are toed in as well, but not quite as much as the show pair. He replied that they had spent a lot of time positioning he 1000s, and this was the best they could do. I know for a fact that one fellow bought a pair of 1000s, taking advantage of the show special discount. I wouldn't be surprised if he sold a few pairs. As for letting everyone know Ohm is alive and well, Ohm does do a fair amount of targeted web advertising. I think the press coverage, overall, was positive, and will be beneficial to Ohm. |
Looking at the Stereophile photo of the Ohms in-room positioning, I find them to look a bit oddly toed. Although Ohms are fairly unfussy, this still looks a bit strange. Also not getting a bit more spread between the speakers could have possibly helped some. All of this of course me saying and thinking out loud-without me even being there, mind.....Okay, will get my coat now.... Regardless, I am still glad John and Co. did do the show, and hopefully good came out of it. If nothing else awareness that Ohm was indeed still alive and well! I can surely see though how a show environment can be tough and quite taxing. |
I don't think the "ambience" that the author referred to in the linked article was speaking to excess treble or brightness. Â I think he was likely referring to the sense of "body" or "weight" created by off-axis reflections in the omnidirectional dispersion (ambient energy) of the Ohms. Â I think some people also describe this as "reverberance". Mini-monitors often have that bright and "lean" presentation that highlights recorded detail. Â My guess is that this writer had that in mind when describing what he found missing in the Ohms. Â That type of SQ rarely sounds musical to me, but I admit that it can be more revealing of the recording. Â In one sense, it's a fair point - because that's not the obvious strength of Ohm speakers (IMHO). Â However,..... His point about "listening through" the ambience and his idea of the "recorded room" sounding confused in the "actual listening room" are kinda old school audiophile philosophy. Â An abstract idea of "accurate" SQ over convincing musical reproduction. Â I want to argue the point, but - why bother? In another way, I don't want to argue the point...because it's not IMO a right vs wrong thing. Â Listening "through" the music is part of the audiophile experience for many purists. Â For some folks, I guess it's the whole hobbyist's raison d'etre, but I personally find it tiresome these days. Â To to each their own, I guess. |
The sound of either pair of mine is totally detached from the speaker. Cannot tell where they are exactly with eyes closed. They never show any signs of strain and no noise that should not be there no matter how loud played off 500w/ch amp. So based on the overall quantity and quality of sound delivered, I’d have to say they are very well built and hard to match in their price range based on that alone. Both of my pair use older refurbed pyramid shaped cabinets. Perhaps that helps. |
My Ohms were dialed in pretty well in my room. I continued to fiddle with placement, but consistently returned to the same position time and time again. Honestly if I were to fault the Ohms it would be a tendency to have instruments sound like they are radiating directly off the tweeter, a lack of full resolution like a ribbon or Heil driver, and build quality which is just not up to snuff for a speaker at the price of the Ohms. I have seen other internet direct vendors build speakers for less than a quarter of what I paid for the Ohms that are built twice as well. An abundance of ambience would not be something that I would suggest. There were recordings that sounded large or chambered, but it was the recording and the same effect was present on other speakers in my room. I continue to wonder how could my Walsh 2000s would sound if they were built to more exacting standards. |
Interesting that Austin seemed to equate extended highs with excess, or unwanted ambience. The Ohms are anything but tipped-up iin the treble. I think they might even be a tad rolled off in the highs. To be sure, the Ohm room did not sound as good as my own system. I have a better front end, better acoustics, better amplification, and I have dialed them in as well as my space permits, including giving my 2000s more space than John had in the hotel room. In my fantasy, John Strohbeen visits my man cave and opines on my system setup. I bet he might have some positive suggestions, but I also think he would like what he heard. |
Here is a link to the coverage Stereophile gave the Ohms. http://www.stereophile.com/content/nyas-2016-day-one-jim-austin#32si0iLbhryvqxkY.97 I wasn't there to have a listen, but I have to say that I have never heard the "abundance of ambience" that he was talking about. One comment that did strike me and I wish reviewers would learn to acknowledge and identify their own listening bias is that laser sharp imaging that so many seem to want in hifi today that is not what "real" music sounds like. Laser sharp imaging is an artifact of stereo speakers and is a design choice and not a sign of quality or increased desirability. I have seen folks slight Magnepans before for a lack for a lack of razor sharp imaging. Yet again if you look at Magnepan and Ohm's marketing material it is about recreating live music. Most speakers are not about recreating live music. |
