How does one know if a tweeter is sturdy?
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OK now we are talking rated <<94db>>> But at a hefty price. Tell ya what I have the Vifa clone made by DavidLouis arriving next week, paid like $50/pair. Interesting tweet. Vifa's are 91 db. these Scans are $325 EACH!!!! Considering i will be employing the tweets only for 10k up fq's. , not willing to fork out $700 for top end. I can geta pair of compression horns at like 98db = beats Scans 94db Right now i am all about db level. db sensitivity is everything ina speaker, 93db is my cut off = Scans' Ring is at 94db. = Compression TI Horn beats it by a massive db sens margin. = Scans Ring is borderline old school technology. .https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ring-radiator-tweeters/scanspeak-revelator-r2904/7000-05-tweet... |
This is the Vifa clone I have arriving next week. 91db. still too low = old school technology. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ring-radiator-tweeters/vifa-xt25sc90-04-ring-radiator-tweeter/ |
Here is a good explanation why AMT aka Ribbons will not work for delivering high fq's with high fidelity. A mid priced grade compression tweet wll beat out the highest priced ribbon. Witha FR you can cross high at 10k so you want the best voicing in this critical ambience hz's, which only leaves 1 choice : TI CH (Titanium compression horns). The super high sensivitity makes TI CH a clean, clear winner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjIqa9J4U8g |
Here is a good explanation why AMT aka Ribbons AMTs are NOT AKA ribbons, therefore your premise is bunk. AMTs work on completely different principle, have different motors, vanishingly low distortion and stored energy and impedance characteristics and the conductor and the radiator are not the same material in an AMT. About the only thing they have sort of kind of in common is the effective radiating area is square or rectangular which makes them kind of similar in radiating patterns. If you keep saying AMTs are ribbons, it’s like calling every black car a Mercedes. AMTs are built differently, measure differently, perform differently and are far less delicate than ribbon tweets. Everyone who universally conflates a "ribbon tweeter" with an AMT really has no idea what they are talking about. In addition to being built entirely differently, the top end Mundorfs have wildly better measurements, including frequency, distortion and lack of thermal compression than a ribbon tweeter. I mention this brand because there are many cheap AMTs which do not perform as well. I’m specifically talking about the high end examples such as from Beyma or Mundorf when I praise their performance. Try again. And again. |
Mundorf has requested I test their ATM's, I looked at price and scared me off. I have no cash for high priced ATM's right now. Tell ya what I;'ll ask Richard Gray tomorrow, he knows what sonics i am looking for I'll ask him pros /cons of Compression vs Mundorf's ATM.. ohhh just cked 91db = dinasaur, its below the <<Golden Threshold>> 94db sens. + The price wayyy out my budget. 2 strikes ITS OUT. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/air-motion-transformers-amt/mundorf-amt19cm1.1-c-air-motion-tw... |
@mozartfan, ATM's, That's where you get your cash. AMT's, That's where you get your sound. lol A ring radiator, like a JBL 2404H compression tweeter, will have better dispersion and dynamics then an AMT tweeter. That said, the AMT tweeter will have a higher frequency response then the JBL 2404H tweeter. Like all things in audio, it is subjective. See the link: https://usspeaker.com/jbl%202404H-1.htm |
<<Higherb Fq response>>> ~~~~~~~~~~ NOt even slight bit interested in the highest registers, My classical cd collection/LP collection has rarelya few notes in the high fq register, Like Richard Gray mentions, <<<AMBIENCE>>> This is the most critical word when discussing tweeters, or any driver for that matter. I am more than confident to claim as my mantra ~~~The higher the sensitivity, the superior dynamics = high fidelity will result~~~~~ Audiogon members need to confront the new technology. Why live in old doctrines and dogmas. The entire speaker discussion revolves around 1 central concern. ~~~SENSITIVITY~~~~~ I do not wish to repeat myself over and over 1000 times on this board, But here it is in a nut shell ~~~Speakers are everything in a system, = most critical component~~~~ ~~~~Sensitivity rating is everything in a speaker design/performance/voicing~~~ Speakers Most critical component in any tube system. Sensitivity Most Critical in a speaker design. My objective is to bring the audiophile community into the 21st Century by making aware as to what constitutes a true high fidelity sound system. FR/Compression combo is the 21st Century speaker. All else is dinasaur. |
Ok you and I are on the same page JBL is replaced by the BEYMA Compression Horn tweeter. 104db sens. Yes sir, She's a beauty. any compression horn, does not matter (high fidelity type, not car audio crap) beats any dome, ribbon, etc etc tweeter. This is what I am trying to get over on this board. Im my book the only tweeter consideration is compression TI Horn tweeter,,all others do not even exist in my book. Troels Gravesen is building <,dinasaurs >> in his lab. https://usspeaker.com/beyma%20CP25-1.htm |
I had the chance to talk to an engineer from Raal a couple of years ago. Brilliant guy. One of the great features of the Raal true ribbons is they can alter the transformers to suit, and you can use 1st order high pass filters if you would like. Anyway, he was very interested in the Mundorf performance and he walked me through how to measure it, especially compression and distortion. We both agreed the Mundorf is pretty spectacular a performer. If you want to dig up that conversation it is somewhere at DIYaudio. |
@erik_squires -- Just a reminder that the subject of this thread was reliability. :) As in, exposed to what - time, power, pokey fingers? In these areas regardless nothing beats a compression driver; its diaphragm in concealed inside the whole of its mechanism, they usually take a lot of power (while not least being the most efficient driver type to turn it into actual sound), dissipate heat effectively, and are extremely reliable even after decades of close to abusive use. |
@erik_squires -- I've seen Altec compression drivers blown by 75 watt amps and not overdriven, so not so sure that they are that much sturdier. That example says close to nothing without any further context. What specific driver are we talking about? Some of the older ones only have a rated power capacity of 15 watts (at ~109dB sensitivity, that is; that's a required 1500 watts for a typical dome tweeter for similar SPL - adios, muchachos), not to mention the SPL delivered at 75 watts on a compression driver of that caliber. As I pointed to already, sturdiness of compression drivers way surpasses that of direct radiators in any form, period. They're easily 20dB's more sensitive alone, real world tested in the pro field constantly, and the sheer output they can produce would obliterate any dome tweeter, ribbon or ESL before they ever got there. Some AMT's (for the pro arena) are high efficiency, so another matter obviously. As it stands compression drivers mostly cruise along in a domestic environment given their towering efficiency, so thermally they'll never approach their limits here. Besides, I've never heard a compression driver that sounded worth having, so I didn't think about it. :-) Remember they always come with a horn or waveguide, so what you don't like about that combo could be a combination of factors. You don't like it regardlessly, fair enough - to each their own. I feel the opposite, but I thought this was about reliability first and foremost ;) |