Not wasting my time on new Digital

Boa2, no problem.
I ordered one my self - Squeezebox to try. NO MOVING PARTS!
I like that as a transport so.........

I have had the unit for 3 weeks now and playing daily for long hours so not a short audition before I initiated this topic.

Many units I have had, I had plenty of time not a short 2 day audition, weeks to get comfortable with. I have had the Audio Aero Capitol but the other I just am unable to mention for other reasons.

Muralman1: Well I am comfotable with my amplification, I have 3 systems all in and I have the original Spectral DMC 10 Delta upgrade and DMC 12 with phono and Spectral Power, so I have lots of resolution and speed for sure on one system.

They other maybe but at the same time I am not dishing the sound of CD, I just find the newer units other than Meridian and Spectral (to name a few) many newer stuff is just not quite enjoyable compared to some older stuff.

I agree Boa2 that there are great new digital components, but I am expecting to pay for example $5000 and expect a good jump in digital source imporvement, not 5% better compared to something that came out 10 years ago! Thats hard, I am expecting 10 years of digital engineering imporvement going further ahead much more. Thats all, I feel that there is comming to a point things are slowing down there is so much more white paper talk compared to reality.

I dont know this but I tried this unit next (even the Capitol) compared to my Theta GEN V balanced which is actuall around 10 years old now and for those of you out there who are very familiar with this piece, using a good transport.... I had 4 people over (audiophiles) and all of them prefered the Theta, especially the bottom end, not even close.....try some difficult passages by Stanley Clark and Mark Egan and I was just asking to my self....hmmm well (same experience the newer remastered Fleetwood Mac CD I guess)

Just an opinion

Hmmmmmmmmm

I know this is off topic, but have any you guys tried bit streaming off the ol' PC?

We are doing that, Vince, using a Squeezebox that reads wirelessly from an external hard drive. The Squeezebox has its own DAC, but we run it to our CDP/DAC, because the sound quality is considerably better. Drubin does the same. I know, because he was my mentor at the Squeezebox Academy.

And now back to our regularly scheduled program. Sorry, Rapogee.

Rapogee, what AN DACs have you tried? Maybe it's my hyper real amps and preamps that compensate for the lack of detail you report. I found a lot more detail in changing out my power amps than I ever did any CDP.

I find tubed non oversampling to be more three dimensional. They excel on spaciousness, and black background. It's the roll off of the extremes that I don't care for.

I know this is off topic, but have any you guys tried bit streaming off the ol' PC?

It occurs to me that the majority of sweeping conclusions expressed in these threads are drawn upon a very small sampling of in-home listening experiences. I understand your disappointment with two newer digital players, but how does that account for the other 100+ options available in today's marketplace?

This is no different than those who damn all expensive power cords after having tried one or two. Or slam speaker manufacturers for a model they heard ten years earlier. I too have heard a number of players--upsampled and not--that did not produce sound that IMO warranted their high price. On the other hand, I've heard others--older, newer, pricey and not--that sounded amazing. It all depends upon whether or not you're willing to find the right combination, one that works with your other components, your choice of music, your sonic preferences, and with your room...often with no rewarding payoff for 300 hours or more!

It's no small feat to replace one's reference, and neither a high price or a specified technology is any guarantee of successfully making that leap. But I assure you, even this empathetic lover of vinyl has heard some killer digital.

Very interesting discussion. Makes me want to hear some of this retro stuff.

How does the Channel Islands DAC stack up, does anyone know? Price is sure
right.

Even Meridians older stuff for example (500 Transport and 563 DAC combo) for just over a grand today, I do not know how much more information you can squeez out of a cd and that is if you actually need that extra information is another thing, sometimes too much is not that much when you are listening and enjoying. I don’t analyze music any more since I have learnt to listen more as the years have gone by. I still end up going back looking for new LP’s and it shouldn’t be that way today when convenience for software use is vital these days. Well I am glad I am not alone after reading some of your responses.

Mre2007:

No upsampling on those units, the micromega is a bit-stream design which was always on the warmer side to begin with but dont have quite the resolution of the very best today but it seem to be more enjoyable listening, as far as keeping it simple, its works but not always.....I DID NOT LIKE THE AUDIONOTE DAC! They said its warm like Analog, I disagree for sure, it might be tweeked to sound "warm" but I will not compensate loosing resolution for warm assured. I still do love the Micromega and scary enough, some well made 16 bit X 4 times oversampling units in the past. GO FIGURE!

You are right, Drubin. With this particular player, some material sounds first rate, like electronic music, and piano to a lesser degree. The highs have that same edginess that all over/sampling players have. The mids are cardboardy as well. It's these two areas the likes of AN excels. I had to try the CD120. It is a cheap thrill.

Muralman, the Consonance 120 has upsampling, doesn't it?

Sorry to hear that. I love my cd player though it's not exactly new. It's a Tube Technology Fusion CD64. It pairs the same dac as the Chord Dac 64 with a discrete tubed analog output stage. It is super analog and I love it, check either it or the Chord Blu/Dac64 combo out for amazing sound. Happy listening!

I think my Counterpoint Dac 10-A and Kinergetics Research transport sound every bit as good as the two $3,000 retail cd players I've owned....circa 1992, a very good year.

Dave

I have listened to a wide sample of over sampling CDPs, and DACs. None do service to the material imbedded on the CD. Even the cheapest AN or Consonance sound far more natural to me.

While there are many newer digital rigs I've yet to try, my experiences thus far have been less than satisfactory. I can't say for certain, but I've found much greater bang for the buck in changing out other components. I also don't necessarily agree that it is the new schemes (oversampling, upsampling,etc.) that are the problem, it is the implementation of those schemes that is important.

Simplify simplify. Get a non oversampler player. Any make will do for starters. I am using the cheap Consonance 120, for the time being. Although it lacks some of the bloom of tube varieties, it played the most realistic piano in the room on my Scinnies so far.

Rapogee: are your older DACs using oversampling and/or upsampling? I have found that I don't particularly care for upsampling and that leaves me out of my newer design... Just a thought ;)

I think there are too many "bright ideas" being incorporated into the new units. This is either because of marketing pressures or some belief that new=improved. I believe Peter Qvortrup when he says that the more you mess with a bit stream the worse it sounds. My non-oversampling, tube-output Audio Note DAC with its ancient AD1865N chip sounds better to these tired old ears than anything I've heard, and that includes the Meitner stuff.