It is hard to find a recent review of these speakers. The few comments I been able to find on the Mk 11 version is that they are either very good or very bad. All reviews seem to like the bass response, that is a good thing, but what about all the other qualities ? Like treble, midrange, dynamics, soundstage , etc.
I am really interested in these (I like the way the look )but I have no way to audition them in the southeast corner of Michigan.
So, please anyone that can give an honest opinion of the speakers sonic qualities would be appreciated.
If your comments sound like a winner, I may hop on a plane to hear them somewhere.
Tvad I have not heard of the sorbothane which I assume acts an isolation accomplishing product. What difference do you notice and where do you get it, and what VS speakers has it improved, VR4's? Also do you roll it into a ball and put it where the spikes were or what? Thanks Joe
You see, I have a problem with one of the internal threads on the upper Module. None of the threaded spikes will screw into it. I just tried calling them again and I did talk to a guy named Joe, so someone is answering the phone at least now.
Joe told me to go to Hardware store for a tap.
I asked why known one has called me back and he said they didnt have an answer for me. Yikes ! This sounds like Melos Audio again. I wish I knew this before I bought these speakers.
I have good luck contacting them between the hours of 9:30 to 10:00 AM PST.I don't believe they are as busy in the early morning,give it a try.I've called back several times until someone answers,Albert gets inundated with calls all day long,but when contact is made they always have been most helpful.
Regarding VS service, I dealt with them on some service issues in Nov. and Dec. of last year and had absolutely no problems dealing with them. They were easy to reach via phone and fixed the non-warrenty repair as what I thought was a very resonable cost. Perhaps they lost some staffing in the last few months. The above comments posted by Blindjim and Ozzy do not reflect my experience dealing with VS.
If customer service is entirely quantified by access... I'd say there is surely a great deal of room for improvment at VSA.
If however it is based upon what takes place upon contact with VSA, I'd have to admit still some room for improvement is needed. Efforts to contact them I have made go without resolution unless contact is positively made. At that point, they have been quite satisfactory. Such is my experience.
I've no crystal ball, but when businesses go strickly via the net, forcing the store fronts to withdraw as viable outlets for that product line due to the profit being cut severely by such a move, the 'face' of the company becomes veiled or hidden completely. Add to that now but a meager accessibility from those buying the goods, it does not bode well for the customer base... past, present or future.
The only reason I can see for taking such a path is to shoot for volume. I'd say some other cost cutting measures are involved, but I've no idea about the financial arrangements between VSA and the dealerships.
Customer service usually finds itself lacking woefully too. Customer service is paramount in web only based operations I would think. A solid pipeline for the customer has to be in place beforehand. After the fact is a bit telling of a move not completely well thought out.
All may be well yet. Maybe. if Albert, or anyone in this "cottage industry at it's finest....???" really wants to make money and increase it's market share, they need add their hads to financing. that's what made Sears, "SEARS". It sure wasn't their catalog... though it helped.
Dramatic moves in business stem from real or percieved as real, dramatic issues. Whatever the case actually is, obtaining an 'estranged' customer base is no positive benefit.
How good is a 10 year warranty if there is no one available to attend to service or support issues when they arise?
Keep trying to call. I've had success getting through in the mid to late afternoon (EST).... LEAST THEY COULD DO IS GET A 800 NUMBER.... and return calls. No one leaves a message asking for help or info just to waste time. I'd bet things will get better soon enough... or they'll go through some major restructureing.
There was a thread about service about 4 months ago. At that time I talked to them and they were very apologetic, promising that they were hiring some new service agents. In the past (as recently as a year ago) they were so small that Von or Jr himself handled almost all calls. Back in those good old days Von or son would talk to you for a hour at a time if that is what it took. Then they were overwhelmed with volume as they had some hits such as VR JR. I know they were trying to have thier dealers handle most inquires about set up etc. But they should have at least indicated that your email is being forwarded to your dealer so one would know if it even was recieved. For now I would use the quote "Never attribute to malace what you can account for by stupidity". And let them know. They really do seem sincere about making a good product and standing behind it. They have sent me stuff for free etc.
Blindjim, Yes I recieved the Mk 11. They visually look really nice. Cant wait to listen to them.
Instructions are vague on all the cones, spikes, allen wrench screws pads etc.
I must mention also that Von Schweikert customer service thus far has been terrible !! E--- Rarely, does someone answer the phone, or messages are not able to be left and if you manage to be able to leave a message no one calls you back ! I talked to VS JR once, and he promised a return call, never happened! Such a nice looking product , such lousy Customer service!
I remember Melos Audio was like that, and they soon went out of Buisness, Von Schweikert better listen up !
Perhaps, I should start another thread on usAudiogon members Customer service experience with VS.
I believe the only purpose for the extra set of spades and the jumper plate is for when you simply want to connect a single cable (not biwire) to the speakers. In that case, from your Amp connect a single run cable to the bottom spades put the jumper plate in place and then use the supplied Von Schweilkert cord to connect the top unit to the bottom unit. You also could connect a single wire from your Amp to the spk bottom spades , use the jumper plate and then connect another short wire from the top bottom spades of the lower module to the upper module spk inputs. (not using the Von Schweikert supplied cord).
Ozzy Congradulations and I am glad you like the fit and finish. Let us know about the sound after breakin. The manual I recieved last spring was unclear about removing the jumpers between the two sets of posts on the woofer module. I called Von S and he said that he was going to rewrite the manual for better clarity so yours may be different and I was told to leave the jumper in place when biwiring direct from amp to mid/tweeter, and from amp to lowest posts on the woofer module. This sounds great to me. Do you have good reason to remove the jumpers?
Gammajo, I use Transparent cable that I purchased for abt USD400. You can check the price from montana-audio.ch. Otherwise just goggle Transparent cable. I didnt try other jumpers so cant comment on the difference. Ozzy, Blindjim, I connected 1 terminal of the speaker cable to the lower post and 1 to the upper post of the bass unit as well. Are you saying u dont need the jumper cables at all to connect the other 2 binding post of the bass unit? well I have not tried it. Will check it out when I back fr holiday in a few days. Happy listening
you know, "Ozzy" is right. We went through this on another thread about the JRs. In fact a dealer told me to use all four of the bass mods posts!. yep, it's true. take out the plates or leave them in, I heard no diff on the JRs. BUT do hook to the lowest posts and the highest posts. Ever how you want to do it. Jumpers, Shotguns. or extended bi wires.
Wow! I'm still amazed why that extra set of posts is there anyhow... couple pieces of wire inside sure would be better, and less the enigma.
By the way , I recieved my speakers Monday. The packaging is awesome! The boxes they came in may make a speaker do it yourself project someday. The Dark cherry looks great! Much better than I thought. Quality through out. My wife actually said they look very nice. I have the speakers breaking in on another system front to front , out of phase, on continuos Rock. I figure if I can last 2 weeks like that I will be set with break in. Then I can compare...
Now come on guys. All you have to do is run one pair of cables from your Amp to the bottom spade/bananas. Run the second set of speaker cables from your Amp to the top Midrange/Tweeter module. Take the cheap jumper plates outcompletly!
Gammajo, now I got it. You are basically using the jumper plate provided by the manufacturer. I believe it wld be better to change the jumper plate to a better jumper cable. I change mine to a Transparent jumper cable and its certainly better than the stock jumper plate. Happy listening tq
The bass module of the VR4Sr's already have jumpers between the two sets of bass inputs. What is recommended is that you take one set of speaker cables from your amp and connect to the lower termials of the bass module, leaving the jumpers in place. Then take another speaker cable and run it from another set of amp outputs on the same amp to the midtweet module. I hope this is clear. You can bire using one cable with four terminations at the speaker end but with the Vr4's you are going to need to have the wire split into two pairs (one for the top module and one for the bottom) in a way that will extend the distance (aproximately 28 inches) between the two modules binding posts.
CORRECTION : Hi guys, pardon my ignorant question but I m confused with the biwiring issue for this speaker. I thought biwiring is a cable with 4 terminations at the end of the cable to be connected to the 4binding posts of the bass module or unless ur saying that the terminations are long enough to connect both the midrange and bass module . As I understd it what ur describing is bicable with 2 different sets of cable. in either case wldnt u still need a jumper cable to connect the lower to the upper binding post of the bass module ?Happy listening tq
Hi guys, pardon my ignorant question but I m confused with the biwiring issue for this speaker. I thought biwiring is a cable with 4 terminations at the end of the cable to be connected to the 4binding posts of the bass module or unless ur saying that the terminations are long enough to connect both the midrange and bass module . if that is correct As I understd it what ur describing is bicable with 2 different sets of cable. in either case wldnt u still need a jumper cable to connect the lower to the upper binding post of the bass module ?Happy listening tq
My dad has the Focus 20/20 and is thinking of upgrade, please let us know or email me when you get a firm impression, we are gonna demo the Vandy Quatro this weekend, loved the Vandy 5A and also he liked the Wilson Sophia...........but your opinion on going from Legacy would be very valubale.......................ENJOY!
Thanks for the kind replys. I am kind of excited. I am going to get the Cherry finish. I hope the VR 4SR is an upgrade from what I am currently using (Legacy Focus). They have been good , I have had them for a while and have been my only point of reference.
Ozzy Congradulations. I hope you will be very happy with them and agree that you really can't tell till you get them home. They do take some time to break in, so be patient in your assessment. Please post your impressions. what finish did you order? Joe
Well I went and ordered a pair of Von Schweikert VR 4SR Mk2. I figure that is the only way to find out what they are all about with my equipment in my system.
Mine are on wood floor with spikes provided which are quite nice. The spikes include floor protector buttons. It sounds a bit better than directly on the floor. And you can slide the speaker on the buttons.
Hi guys, how is your speaker supported? on the spike provided? I noticed from Von Schweikert website Picture Gallery, most of his dealers dont use the spike. Anybody doing it different with better result? Happy Listening
That might well be. changing out drivers likely would necessitate x over changes. Hmmm. see, I got it a different way. Ask VAudio. Chris mentioned to me once that his ordering of a pair of SR's included changes in the X over at his request. Albert then liked the changes and figured to add them into a upgraded model... or something along those lines. I don't recall being sworn to secrecy about it.
X overs are a way big part of speakers. they'll make or break one. naturally there is more... but that X sure is important... and there's a bunch of gizmos in a fourth order like in the VR's.
Blindjim - best I know the MKII VR4SR was a change in the midrange driver, necessitated because the Aerogel mid was discountinued by the manufacturer. This mid change required some changes in the crossover.
I'll second that emotion of bi wiring. Absolutely! The 'data link' is purely a stop gap measure. just to get 'er up and running.
personally I don't understand why a loudspeaker system costing around ten grand needs have some such short cut approach that limits performance in the first place. Albert must have gotten a super deal on them OR it sure seemed a good idea at the time. Beats me. it does seem counter intuitive to have such compromise in a speaker system which proports uncompromised sound quality, huh?
In fact I would have thought the bi wire span to have been addressed too in further itterations. Resolving the issues of 'special' bi wire cables being required thereafter. Oil well.
Definitely do add another set of speaker wires to the bass module though. Regardless how. A shotgun is a thought. I have two sets of bi wire spkr. cables supplying my JRs. Didn't plan it that way, just sort of happend. The span of the bi wires was not long enough to suitablly fit from the bottom most posts to the TM. With either set. so I grabbed out of the closet some others. Violin! things improved! Although now similar cables in brand name only, (different models), things are better overall.
Long story short, even some romex will be better used as a jumper than is the 'data link', or some cable jumpers like from whom ever your speaker cable choice is. I'd think that the least expense and a good way to go. Wish I had that thought back then.
in effect, you have four speakers there. Using separate spkr cables for each might have some advantage. Depends on your prefs. The flexibility is inherent in the VR4 - ?? series. Take advantage.
Jumnpers - Shotgun - custom bi wires - or bi amping.
Not too many others force upon you, or give you, those added costs/options. the perspective of it all is on the buyer, as part and parcel in making the move to them.
About that 'auditioning' bit? Get one asap. the dealership which did carry them in my area, carries them no more, two others I spoke with are getting out of being a VSA dealer soon. A direct result of the 'online' sales agreement between Albert and Higher Fi. The dealers now, simply can not make money with them facing that resource. Dealerships would be simply look see joints, and retain no sales unless they were to meet the online mark. which in all, with the chips flatly on the table, they shouldn't have to. especially if they offer even support on site.
It's gonna be interesting to see what happens. Alberts an innovator. gotta give him credit for trying new avenues for wholesale distribution. Gee. it might be a good idea with so many brick & mortar spots pointing to HT as their prime focus... it does appear however that the "try before you buy" plan no longer seems important enough a measure of consequence for the consumer. Albeit, with even a 30 day period for refusal, (if that even is being done by Higher Fi) and the exceptional break in times of the JR & I suspect the SR as well, only a short time for true eval will be rendered. Hmmm.
Next stop? Cutting out the middleman, or Higher Fi in this case. who knows? it could happen. I don't think Tyler acoustics is having any trouble with selling to the public all by itself.
I guess it's not a big reach for those current VSA owners looking to step up in the VSA line to buy on reputation solely. For prospective owners, though, well it'll be interesting at the very least. in spite of the newly added encumberances, I'd not take them off my list. Provided I could get the prospective units wisely. Popularity will help out a lot in that respect. As will owners posting their thoughts so those so imclined to buy can get some feel of them in any event.
Wow! Altruistic salespeople. Waht a concept!
I still am interested in the SR as a move up for myself. the best sentiment I've heard about them is with regard to the JR performance. The statement was "whatever your getting with the JR now, you'll get more of it with the SR."
As I spoke with VSA recently as to what the upgrade afforded one in the JR, I was told "it's a complete redo." Different drivers, X over, damping...etc A whole new ball game" the loacl dealer said "it's a different sounding speaker for sure. Speaking of the JR MK II".
IT'S INTERESTING TO HEAR THE sr mk ii IS JUST A TWEETER CHANGE? As important as that one thing can be, I did think it to be a lot more. Like new x over fiddling and such.. Whatever the case, VSA does make some fine performing loudspeaker systems.
Do have fun and do add some wires vs using the link.
Douglas_schroeder, regarding hooking up cable fr bottom to top module of the speaker, it was suggested by the dealer who sold me both cable and speaker. Well, will try both method of cabling and lets see what is the sonic different. Meanwhile has anybody compare between mk i and mk II? Happy listening
I tried bi-wire when the speakers were not broken in yet,they sounded somewhat disjointed.After about 350 hours I tried bi-wire again and had a different result,more detail more transparency and the soundstage was much more coherent overall.I strongly recommend bi-wire.
Audioblazer, You are creative in your thought of trying a short speaker cable instead of the Data-Link! I would first speak with VS about it! I would not go hooking up cables from bottom cabinet to top without consulting them just to be safe!
Yes, it gets costly to bi-wire when using such high end cables. I think you'd hear a noticeable difference bi-wiring, but only you can say whether it would be worth the price. It may be possible to use a less expensive cable on the bass, as has been suggested. However, you may want to try several different economical cables for bi-wiring. You may be surprised at the performance of some of them.
Gammajo, thank you for yr suggestion. To borrow for trial when I m in Malaysia may not be practical. Anyway I will find a way to get another pair of cable to biwire. Still curious whether anyone try to use a cable instead of using datalink and whether there is any improvement. Happy listening
It seems that the Data cable is a good idea. It looks better with that hook up in the pictures. Odd that VS couldnt just use the same cable they use in the crossover network to make the Data Link. I understand the advise about Bi-wiring and my Virtual Dynamics Revelation 2 are bi-wires and in waiting, but... I still want to hear the VR 4 SR first!
Anyone in SouthEast Michigan got a VR 4SR for a poor boy to listen to?
Audioblazer. Perhaps you could use your current cable on the mid/tweet which is most sensitive to nuance, and borrow a cheaper cable for the bass and see what you think. The silver VHP Guerilla cable I mentioned was $899 for a 3 meter pair with a 45 day trial. He has many other models that are cheaper. Jason at Guerrilla is wonderful to deal with. His phone is (800) 253-0939 or www.guerrillaaudio.com. I really do think you might be seriously degrading the preformance of your excellent cable by using the data link.
audioblazer, I immediately dropped the data link in favor of biwiring as the company recommends. I used Guerrilla Audio silver cable on the bass and copper on the mid/tweet. If you are still using your datalink you are in for the pleasure of a dramatic quantum jump in sound quality if you biwire. Yes, the ebony was an upcharge of 2K but the original was priced at 8K retail plus the upcharge = 10K. The new version is priced at 12K, so you still got a deal. Hopefully you paid a bit less than list.
Douglas_schroeder, I did read the instruction from VS. However, I m not keen to biwire the speaker.Currently using Transparent reference cable. With biwiring it will cost me as much as the speaker. Wonder whether it would be possible to use a short speaker cable instead of the data link and get any kind of improvement? TQ for responding. Happy listening
The Data-Link is to be replaced at the soonest possible convenience. The speakers are designed to be biwired. For best sound it's imperative that the Data-Link be removed. The owner's manual states clearly that the intended purpose is to biwire or biamp the speakers. The Data-Link is a jumper for the separate cabinets and is not to be seen as the ultimate means of operating the speakers.
The manual states: "...the Data-Link jumper in order to transfer the signal to both the woofer and midrange/tweeter crossover boards whe using the single speaker cable. NOTE: we recommend this only as a temporary solution, as we designed the speakers expressly for bi-wiring... BI-WIRING: Using two separate pairs of speaker wires to deliver the signal to the woofer and midrange/tweeter modules will result in superior image depth, cleaner midrange/treble, and a larger sound stage."
Gammajo, tq for responding. Maybe I should wait until I m more certain. As for VS marketing, I find it out that VR SR Mk 1 ebony veneer used to cost USD2k more than other veneer. However, for MK 11 model, all veneer is of the same price. It really make a sucker out of me for purchasing the ebony version which is the only 1 available by my dealer. Few months ago I got a blown woofer and it took me more than 3 mths to get the parts for repair. Bad experience. Despite, the bad experience abt their service, I do like the sound of the speaker especially the bass. By the way, did you replace the datalink? Happy listening
Audioblazer - Yes, there is definitely a difference in what I was told at the factory and the written description in terms of degree of performance improvement. I think that the marketing department got a hold of that one :). I am sure that there are improvements but the original Aerogel mid which was also used in the VR7 I believe is no slouch. I have not heard one speaker directly compared to the other but I would guess that the truth is somewhere in between and at this point spending the money elsewhere in your system might yeild more bang than doing the upgrade. That is what I have done - Changed out my preamp which I felt was the weakest part of my system for a Audio Horizons and loving it. Please let me know if you upgrade and the results, becuase I have had the same debate.
Gammajo, you mentioned that VR SR4 Mk11 is not much different from VR SR4 according to VS factory yet their website describe otherwise as stated below : The resulting sonic improvements of the Mk2 design are not subtle and include the following benefits:
1. Greater clarity, transparency, and smoothness in the midrange from 100Hz to 4kHz.
2. More depth in the sound field, along with greater detail far back in the stage.
3. Seamless integration of the woofers, midrange, and tweeter units, comparable in coherency to Quad 989 electrostatic speakers.
4. Tighter bass response combined with sweeter treble.
5. Superior image focus, enabling you to almost reach out and touch the performer Did u audition any VR4sr Mk11 and compare it to original version? Reason for asking is that I m contemplating upgrading to mk11 and where I come from I do not have the opportunity to audition it
Another question I wld like to ask owners of VR4sr is that did anyone of you replace the datalink? if yes what is the sonic improvement you hear and what did you replace it with? TQ
Well they sound very good. And they look very good.
I found Mr. Salk to be a very good man to deal with.
The poor guy , I subjected him to all types of music, including CCR and AC/DC. The speakers have a very open sound and the center image is great. But, all my equipment and my room layout is very different than his... Even though, I like them , I am trying to persuade him into letting me borrow a pair for a day or two to play in my system. Since I live within driving distance, he may go for it. I will be able to comment better at that time.
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