@tuffy72561 great minds think alike. I ordered a second 1M-run of GC2’s from Teo this past week for doing the Schroeder Method between one of my source components and my Pre.
New TEO Audio ICs, who has them?
TEO has been busy, they recently introduced the KRONOS ICs:
https://www.dagogo.com/audio-blast-three-new-cables-two-cable-makers/
I see they also have an upgraded version of the Game Changer (GC II):
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8e6gg-teo-audio-gcii-1m-different-physics-math-different-result...
https://www.dagogo.com/audio-blast-three-new-cables-two-cable-makers/
I see they also have an upgraded version of the Game Changer (GC II):
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8e6gg-teo-audio-gcii-1m-different-physics-math-different-result...
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It is quite an experience to first hear what the Schroeder Method can do for SQ in your system. I doubt many will want to go back to single interconnect runs after trying it! Its been a few months since I first tried the Schroeder Method in my system, but from what I remember everything just got a LOT better. Deeper and wider soundstage, much more detailed and more meat on the bones of instruments and vocals....everthing seems so much more THREE DIMENSIONAL. Two Teo Ultras run with this method, I heard through the grapevine, definitely better a single Teo Kronon in SQ and I don't doubt that. I took my former Teo GC over to a fellow Audiogoner friend's house to try in his system and within about 20 minutes his system went from being a little thin sounding, compared to my system, to full and beautiful. He was absolutely giddy and said this was the absolute best thing he had ever done to his system. Needless to say, he was glad that I had talked him into buying the 4 RCA splitters for this demonstrstion. He also bougt my GC on the spot. I think the Schroeder Method with the GCs in his system even had more impact than with the Ultras in mine. The sound improvement to me was as if he had changed out and upgraded at least a few components in his system. My gut tells me the sweet spot, best performance ratio for the dollar, may very be 2 GC IIs run with the Schroeder Method. I sure hope Doug gets some kind of credit and/or compensation for this find. He already was my favorite reviewer before this recommendation.......Thanks again Doug!! |
@ celander Cables used were Verastarr Signature X2 and a pair of CH Acoustics X20 Anniversary Edition. @ douglas_schroeder Thanks for sharing this discovery, it definitely aids in bringing the listener closer to the recorded event! Based upon the positive attributes of the Schroeder Method, I can't imagine the increase in performance one could get by eliminating the adapters/1 pair of RCA's and having the manufacturer combine the cables together if the AWG size is compatible with the RCA termination. Wig :) |
Congrats, Wig! It's a good means of demonstrating to both skeptics and long term audiophiles how wrong they may be when they think the sound is maxed out and it can't get much better. What's great is that if you really like the sound you get with your cables, it can get a lot better. :) Frankly, it's almost unnerving how much quality is lost by single interconnect wiring. Again, I caution people new to this topic to read the article on the Schroeder Method and heed the warnings. There are always some who want to plow ahead without due diligence, and that is not advisable. |
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Guys, After reading some of the positive responses from users who have tried the Schroeder Method, I decided to try for myself since $51 is all I would lose if this method didn’t work in my set-up! Like many and Doug has reported, the difference in SQ is quite startling; imaging takes on a more vivid and natural sounding envelope with more color, size, depth and impact. In fact, the first thing I noticed was the impression that dynamic range/channel separation seemed to go WAY up, no bleed over in terms of channel balance and sound-staging is rock-solid, wide and deep; you feel immersed within the performance. I tried cables from the same brand and mixed them with other brands with no degradation in SQ or oscillation to my ears. Try it, you may find it to be worthwhile… Wig |
I read with some interest the piece Douglas Schroeder wrote about his experience with the "Schroeder Method" of interconnect cable combinations in parallel. Like Douglas, I also have the Teo Audio "The Pre" passive preamp and a few sets of Teo Audio liquid metal signal transmission cables. In my set-up, I am running the Teo Audio interconnects from my source(s) to The Pre and then from The Pre to a pair of self-powered ATC monitors. Glorious sound, indeed, but how does the audio possibly sound better by implementing the Schroeder Method for those Teo Audio cables running between the sources and The Pre? At the outset, I was somewhat surprised to learn that the Teo Audio cables would benefit from this method. Their bandwidth is said to be huge (1GHz+), and the nature of internal reflections of signal propagation reduced owing to the fluid transmission medium. My excitement was tapped down by my confusion about the theory. I then read a reply to Douglas’ piece from Bob Smith. Mr. Smith suggests that cables can be modeled as inductors and suggests that running 2 sets of cables in parallel extends their bandwidth by nearly 2-fold while reducing their characteristic impedance by 2-fold. Mr. Smith suggests that the benefit is the potential reduction in reflected energy and/or standing waves within the cable, which might translate into reduced phase distortion artifacts within the audible range. (Mr. Smith’s piece is long and well worth a detailed read; I apologize for the Cliff Notes’ summary here, which might not be entirely faithful to the original text.) Presumably, these effects would affect both the signal and ground legs of the interconnect. From my limited understanding of the composition of my particular Teo Audio cables, only the signal conductor includes liquid metal medium, with the ground conductor being solid wire. So perhaps the ground conductor being solid wire explains why Teo Audio cables benefit from this method, per Mr. Smith’s explanation. But to hell with theory, trying is the pudding of life! |
We have three new cables on the way...one single ended, two balanced. (not in the same price ranges at the GCII, so no real effect on that used price.) And a note: the GC cable are direct sale models and do not have ’retail’ prices, so the used prices tend to be commensurate with that aspect, ie, they tend to sell high - and quickly. |
When the description for this article is looked at closely, this is why the ’two cables with splitters’ is not recommended in a preamp to power amp scenario. It’s the varied impedance of when a volume control or output of the preamp is involved... the varied impedance of the signal, on the transmission line proper, that has more potential to erupt into some resonance that is not easily predictable. AES E-Library Audio Cable Distortion is Not a Myth! |
For clarity’s sake, the GC jr, is a more open and clear, slightly faster version of the GC. But still retaining the GC’s balances across the frequency spectrum. That is why the GC has been gently moved to the past tense, to make way for a GCII. The Teo cables and the mentioned brand have been compared before and the results of those comparisons can be easily found.... |
After using GC Jr for a few days I would say this is the most non fatigue interconnect I ever used. I can listen to my music for long hours without getting tired to my ears. Very well balanced overall and easy to my ears. However, I still prefer my Morrow cable for better soundstage and space. I feel that Morrow has better slam and kick and feel more 3D. |
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@wig The special arrangement that I would recommend is not try it with two different brands. It may well work or it may produce an oscillation not unlike the one that we had when we tried this very thing way back way ( our guess as to the cause of this oscillation was that there was a critical difference between the two legs). And it was this experience that produced the caution that both Doug and tuffy have brought up. Now please understand that this is simply a caution because we don't know for a fact that something bad will happen but we also can't say for a fact that something bad, like an oscillation, won't happen. Do remember that decades ago shot-gunning speaker cable produced not only some spectacular sonic results but with certain combinations of cables, amps and speakers also produced some spectacular amp destruction. Bottom line, when it works this mod can be filed under absolutely awesome, but we are not sure at this where the limits are. Will comment at greater length later as time is tight right now but will leave you with the following.....when this mod works it is quite special but please use caution moving forward....and sorry for any awkward grammar and typos. |
Guys, I also found Doug's doubling of SC to be spot-on, tried this 6+ years ago when I had my single wire Avalon Ascendants and the results were efficacious. Of course, I will be trying this with my IC as well. Is there any special arrangements of interconnects when two different brands are used? Thanks, Wig |
As expected, there will be a high degree of resistance to this from skepticism. Even friends who I have known for about ten years - who should know by now that I don't promote junk advancements - still express skepticism on some of my recommendations. There seems to be a natural resistance to novel system methods. But, when they hear it, they quickly change their tune! (pun!) Last week I had a group in visiting to hear the PureAudioProject Trio15 Horn 1 Speakers. I had the EE Minimax DAC Supreme in the rig, and it can accept discrete opamps. I have three sets of discrete opamps I roll into that DAC. One anti-horn listener wasn't impressed with the sound. I said, "I can change it in about two minutes..." They were not buying the idea that opamps could revolutionize the performance. I did two changes over about a half hour to the opamps. They were, shall we say, humbled by the experience, all admitting how shocked they were by the sea change of sound with each set of opamps. That's just one example of how the average audiophile seems to begin from a position of skepticism, and some never get past it. I try to stare my own skepticism down and actually try things. Cables, fuses, opamps, and now double ICs are all highly efficacious. I told a well-known pre/amp manufacturer recently to try swapping out the fuses in their power amps. The reply was to the effect, "It shouldn't make any difference if it's not in the signal path..." SIGH! I feel like shouting, "JUST TRY IT!" My two examples I discussed with them both involved the power fuse, and that was enough to convince me of the efficacy of such aftermarket fuses. There is no replacing trying. |
I have been running 2 Teo Ultra RCA IC's in my system in parallel via the Schroeder Method (named and discovered by audio reviewer Doug Schroeder of Dagogo.com) The result is quite impressive. The increase in performance is substantial; especially in terms soundstage depth, three dimensionality and the lowered noise floor which allows tremendous revelation of detail and decay of notes. Please continue to read as there is a WARNING in the next paragraph as to how not to implement this in your system! I took my old Teo Game Changer RCA IC over to my friend's system and ran in parallel with his current Game Changer via the Schroeder Method. The results were also very dramatic. Within 30 minutes his system sounded to me like he had added substantially improved speakers and a DAC. He was absolutely giddy. He claimed nothing he ever did to his system had this kind of positive effect. I have to agree, as I always thought his system sounded thin when compared to mine, but not anymore. The Schroeder Method involves using basically 4 RCA splitters to connect 2 runs of RCA IC's between 2 audio components. I bought my Audioquest RCA splitters from Crutchfield. WARNING DO NOT CONNECT TO ANY POWER AMPLIFIERS AS THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF DOING REAL DAMAGE TO THEM. I have them connected between my CD and Integrated amp (so essentially connecting between CD and Preamp section). Please read Doug Schroeder's review of this method in the Audio Blast called The Schroeder Method of Cable Connection at Dagogo.com, dated June 18, for a very complete description and much better literary experience. I try to read all of Doug's reviews as I have found them to be spot on! He was already my favorite reviewer before I happened to be lucky enough to meet both him and Taras of Teo Audio together at AXPONA in Schaumburg , Illinois back April of this year. This method allows Teo cable lovers to ramp up the performance to cost ratio even higher! |
Let me just update you on my Teo ultra interconnect, lately I notice the ultra is still getting better after 150 hrs, the speed, quietness , and dynamic of this cables is just unbelievably good..music is so palpable, if you like classical this cable will handle all the complex passages that you are dreaming for , .iam still amaze, how Teo does it... |
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I recently swapped into my system the Teo Audio Liquid Pre passive line stage in place of my active tube preamp. Tho I am still tweaking the system, the system is definitely of a different sonic character. The connectivity is a 1M run of GC II between my Oppo DVD player and the Liquid Pre, and a 2M run of GC Ultra from the Liquid Pre to my powered ATC monitors (fitted with Cardas CLEAR adaptors). So the system is fully Teo Audio liquid metal fluid conductor from source to transducer. I can discern a dramatic change in the acoustic envelope than found with my system configured with an active tube preamp. The music seems even more relaxed in character; the music just flows with greater ease than before. Paradoxically, the bass music seems better defined. And that incredible tonality expressed from the liquid cables seems even more evident with the Pre in the signal path. On one recording, I’m hearing from more defined triangles, with their tonality being better resolved than before. And I have not yet dialed in the unit’s optimal isolation parameters as of now. So more to report. But it’s clear to me that this conductor tech is a paradigm changer. |
@ beethoven-5 Well, the GC II has a noticeably lower noise floor and as a result lets more of the sonic picture come through. But in terms of attack and initial decay the GC jr is pretty close to the GC II. It would be roughly analogous to a comparison between the sound of a nicely voiced pre-amp and the same pre-amp upgraded with premium parts ( such as caps and resistors etc ). |
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The Ultra is very similar to the Game Changer II. I have both in my system now, with the GC-II as a source interconnect and the Ultra as the interconnect between my preamp and powered ATC monitors. I am making further adjustments with the system and planning to replace all solid wire interconnects in my system with Teo Audio cables--they are that dramatic of an improvement. But I really cannot comment about the audible differences between the two interconnects until I get a few more adjustments completed with respect to power cabling conditioning and installation. |
@taras22 It was a pleasure to meet and talk with you. I wish we could have had better weather here in Chicago for everybody. I thoroughly enjoyed the show. Amazing how time flew while moving from room to room for two days. Always fun listening to different equipment, meeting new audio enthusiasts and hearing new music too! |
