New TEO Audio ICs, who has them?

@in_shore ...Truth be known the Kronon, which is one of our new cables, is the direct result of an attempt to revise the Splash. We started revising and by the time we were done we had created something that  sounded much better but unfortunately also had higher associated production costs. 

So after thinking about it for a while we decided to keep the Splash as is, and offer the Kronon as a higher priced alternative that provides an increase in performance.

@t_ramey ....Much sorries, but the economics of the situation ( the GC is priced as a direct sale item and the margins are quite thin ) really don't allow for a straight-up trade in ( I'm assuming here that a straight-up trade is what you are asking about ).

@t_ramey ...Will have a chat with Ken and see what we can do.

Not to worry, the CT Matrix cables are superior sounding in my system.

  .....geez, to put this into a proper perspective you are comparing a $1250 cable and a $500 cable straight up ?....well for 2 1/2 times the price it should, at the very least, sound superior, and it maybe should also do the laundry, make a perfect latte, and take out the garbage....

@jayctoy 

....as a matter of fact we will be there, we'll be sharing a room with Triangle Art and Angel City Audio ( Rm 610 )....please come knocking....looking forward to shaking your hand and having a chat....

@ t_ramey

.....very sorry for not getting back to you earlier....the bottom line is the GC was originally conceived as a direct sale product whose main purpose was to introduce TEO Audio to a larger audience and to make this happen we cut our margins very very thin....and what that ultimately means is we cannot take trade-ins towards the purchase of the GC11 ( methinks your best option would be to sell your GC cables privately ).....

@jayctoy 

We were thinking of having some of the new Ultra's and the Kronon's at the show....but nothing is set in stone and the situation is still pretty fluid ....will post about any changes as show time approaches. Are you looking for any specific lengths ?

@in_shore 

Our latest round of cable tinkering was supposed to produce a revised Splash.....well, long story short, the tinkering produced what has become the Kronon, which a friend, upon first listen, called an OMG cable ( which, granted, is a bit over the top, but the Kronon is a very very fine cable....btw my current fave in our lineup... )....unfortunately the input costs required a price significantly higher than the Splash, so we decided to keep the Splash , and expanded our lineup by adding the Kronon (  both use the same WBT 152 RCA plug...). 

The Ultra is a GC variant that has some features of the Kronon incorporated into its design ( it has the same KLE plug we use in the GC....) and is a wickedly good sounding cable that has taken the GC sound and dramatically improved on it in much the same way the Kronon improved on the Splash ( see review cited above for a great description of that improvement ).

As for the Kronon being the flagship ?....no, that place is occupied by the Reference, which is now in the final stages of getting a Kronon inspired redesign.... we hope to have it ready for an introduction at Axpona....and we hope a review of same will be coming shortly thereafter.

And almost forgot, there another cable that is the replacement for a cable we called the Standard ( our first cable model )....it will be priced somewhere halfway between the Kronon and the Reference....the first were prototypes were a great success but we are considering doing some Kronon-izing to bring up the performance another notch or two.

Hope that helps give a better picture of our line-up.

@ simguy

Unfortunately we don't at present have a GC2 based balanced cable....finding a plug has been a big part of the problem....and to be honest we haven't really bought into the need for balanced ( save to simply serve a market )...we also feel that the RCA route still provides the best bang for the buck for audio applications ( as an example, a GC2 balanced cable would be priced within spitting distance of the Ultra, and the Ultra out of gate is a much better sounding cable than the GC2...)...

@ genjamon

The price of a TEO Audio Ultra cable pair is $1099 (USD).

Taras 

@ celander

All have what you call an aperture though our design is a novel interpretation of the generic ABH type.....and yes we have a patent on that design....

Cheers

@jayctoy ... Hopefully be seeing you at AXPONA. We are teamed with  some amazing audio from Triangle Art and Angel City Audio. It should be sounding mighty mighty fine. Really looking forward to a great show and meeting folks we have touched base with here.  

@jayctoy  

If by chance I'm not in the room just ask Hugh or Tom for my number and I'll head back. And dinner/lunch sounds grand.

@jayctoy 

Whoops....forgot to ask, what day(s) are thinking of attending ?

A huge shout out to everyone who came to our room at AXPONA to say hi.....was great to see everyone and really appreciated the kind words.

Thank you thank you thank you.

Taras

@ beethoven-5

Well, the GC II has a noticeably lower noise floor and as a result lets more of the sonic picture come through. But in terms of attack and initial decay the GC jr is pretty close to the GC II.

It would be roughly analogous to a comparison between the sound of a nicely voiced pre-amp and the same pre-amp upgraded with premium parts ( such as caps and resistors etc ).

@wig 

The special arrangement that I would recommend is not try it with two different brands. It may well work or it may produce an oscillation not unlike the one that we had when we tried this very thing way back way ( our guess as to the cause of this oscillation was that there was a critical difference between the two legs). And it was this experience that produced the caution that both Doug and tuffy have brought up.

Now please understand that this is simply a caution because we don't know for a fact that something bad will happen but we also can't say for a fact that something bad, like an oscillation, won't happen. Do remember that decades ago shot-gunning speaker cable produced not only some spectacular sonic results but with certain combinations of cables, amps and speakers also produced some spectacular  amp destruction. 

Bottom line, when it works this mod can be filed under absolutely awesome, but we are not sure at this where the limits are.

Will comment at greater length later as time is tight right now but will leave you with the following.....when this mod works it is quite special but please use caution moving forward....and sorry for any awkward grammar and typos.

@jayctoy 

And the other folks having wild fun with the Schroeder Method.

If I can interject with a few words of caution. The basic concept behind the Schroeder Method opens up the potential for some quite amazing improvements in interconnect performance ( the Bob Smith comment that celander referenced up-thread does a very good job explaining how/why the performance improvements ). And while this is quite exciting we have to keep in mind a few things. First this is a new application which has not been thoroughly explored, and as an example we have seen ( and heard from clients about ) issues with mis-matched cables. These issues include oscillations/feed-back loops that could prove harmful to equipment and the fact that careful matching of cables produces the best sonic results ( and here we are referring to both cable type and length ). 

So by all means dive into this, but with whatever combination you are experimenting with please start in a relatively safe part of your system ( up-stream from your pre-amp as opposed to down-stream from your pre-amp ).  

We kinda broke our normal protocol and gave it a few listens over the last several days through the burn-in period and the initial impressions are very very positive.

A more thorough comparative listening session tomorrow ( primarily a comparo with a configuration using splitters and our new Ultra Plus...and just for giggles the also new Reference Ne Plus Ultra ) . Will post results of that session shortly after.  

We also have a splitter on the drawing board that we will get to in the very near future.

Sorry that this is so late but we had a new toy to play with and one thing led to another and time flew and here we are. So again, much sorries.

And one more thing, we kinda miscalculated the burn-in time required to get things to be at their best, and that greatly extended the timeline for the test ( we are going to continue the burn-in to see if there is any more settling to be done, and will report back if something changes significantly ).

Soooo.....the line-up for this test was the Double Double, which is basically two GC Jnr assemblies into single plugs ; two sets of a new cable, the Ultra Plus, into Audioquest splitters ; and a set of our new Reference Ne Plus Ultra cables, which are now our flag-ship cables.

The results were quite interesting. The Double Double was pretty darn amazing, especially considering the price. It didn’t beat the Ref but it also didn’t embarrass itself either. The new Ref pretty well carried the field in every parameter, but at 25x the price it should well have ( and yes this left us wondering how good a Ref Double Double could sound like ) but make no mistake about it, it was a good fight. The new Ultra Plus proved to be a very fine cable on its own, but saddled with obvious issues of splitters, brought up the rear, but it was very close to the Double Double ( we had thought the quality of the cable would allow it to beat the Double Double but the elimination of the splitters created a real unfair advantage for the Double Double ).

So there you have it. We are still exploring the limits of this cable style so at present the only cable available in the Double Double line will be the 0.6m length. But as we continue testing we hope to have longer lengths available in the very near future, so stay tuned.

And one last thing. We are also working on developing our own splitters which we hope will provide much better performance than those presently available. Once those are available we will probably replay this test.

@celander

 Here is the pricing you requested.

Ultra Plus @ 0.6m is $1375 (USD)

Reference Ne Plus Ultra @ 0.6m is $18,500 ( USD )

So here is an update on the Double Double. I guess the first thing to say is the burn-in seems to have taken much longer than usual ( or it might just be that we have followed it much longer than usual because we are really curious and hearing changes we had not, up to this point, been aware of ). Bottom line it is still showing improvement and really not embarrassing itself in direct comparisons with the Reference Ne Plus Ultra ( the initial surprise factor is now not part of the picture ).

Serious listening session tomorrow....and will report back if things change yet again. 

Sorry but the session scheduled for yesterday is gonna happen a bit later today. Will post with impressions hopefully later tonight, at worst tomorrow.

What can I say, sounding mighty fine, and acquits itself well against the Reference Ne Plus Ultra.

Will be tweaking the concept some next week and we’ll see if we can push the performance further.

You sure ? ....though you could well be right cause I’m not too good with numbers, especially when youse gots to translate from Metric to Imperial eh.

The following was suggested by a friend as a very very good splitter possibility.

Audio Sensibility, for those who aren’t aware, is another cable company, like Clarity, which makes great product, but doesn’t get enough much deserved respect/attention ( have used their power cords for years and can attest they punch well above their price point ). And like Chris and Melissa of Clarity, Steve, the man behind Audio Sensibility, is "great folks", really great.

https://audiosensibility.com/blog/products-2/specialty-cables-occ-copper-and-occ-silver/#!/Statement...

Which I think is about $12.95(USD) isn't it ?

Took the latest addition to the Double Double family, the Double Double Ultra out for a spin. 

Well oooo-weee-baby !....we thought the original Double Double was a wicked ride....but the new addition is much more seriously wicked....all the thrills and chills of the original but in a turbo-charged package. 

Lower noise floor, more slam, cleaner delineation of highs, huge sound stage.

Next on the agenda is a Double Double Kronon, which may prove to be even  better. Please note this one may take a while as the WBT plug we use on the Kronon presents a bit of a "plumbing" problem. 

But stay tuned, things are moving forward.

Gawd, where is the army of eye-rolling emoji  marching past the grandstand saluting Gen Geoff when you need them !?

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming ?

@d2girls

Apology accepted and thank you for that and one offered for my part in that dust storm.

And posts deleted as well.

@ tuffy72561

As good as the Ultra Plus ( yes a new cable, an upgraded Ultra ) was using the splitters, the Double Double Ultra just does everything better. Wish I could be more specific but it simply is better in every aspect...faster....cleaner...punchier .....etc etc etc...

What would be interesting is to do the comparison using a better splitter .To that end will be contacting Steve @ Audio Sensibility to get some of his splitters to see how much more performance a better quality splitter will bring to the double cable system.

@ tuffy72561

The cable is available now ( we just haven’t put up an ad up yet ). As is an Ultra Plus version btw.

And the summer ? Madness, just madness! Lots of time on the bike, our canoe, and last but most certainly not least, the lawn tractor. And its been a bit of a heat wave here so being outside requires working around the noon day sun ( which we usually haven’t had to do, and that is a bit of a crimp ).

You ?

Yes, "continuous stream of development" pretty well nails it. Ken and I are both unrepentant tinkerers who are always finding new ways to do things, and finding new materials to improve product. We have a literal mountain of cables that were part of some idea to move performance forward but kinda missed the mark ( read there is a very real tangible cost attached to development unlike some folks who just combine long time catalog items to produce product ).

The problem with that is we don't have a product list that stays constant. Its sort of like the restaurant that doesn't  have a set menu because the chef always wants to make the best meal with the best currently available ingredients. 

So while we don't have a cast in stone product list we will provide the very best product that we can produce at that time. And if a model has been superceded by a superior sounding cable at any given price point it gets dropped. 

Hope that helps understand where we are coming from.....sorry done in haste.

As an example my pre-amp swings 60 volts and a Kronon doesn’t work as well on the output as a three conductor assembly. But in other applications where the output is significantly less, the Kronon, a single conductor assembly, is my absolute fave cable in our lineup ( because, as Jeff said, it delineates tone and nuance beautifully...whereas the three conductor assemblies provide a more robust presentation...which btw is what Ken tends to gravitate to ).

Now this may well be a simplistic conclusion drawn from a very small sample size but we have similar feedback from several clients.  

Sorry if my description caused some confusion..... to clarify, the Kronon cables are based on a single ( as in one ) conductor assembly whereas the cables that perform better in that particular placement are cables that have three conductors in the assembly. ( where assembly refers to part of the cable that make up the bit btwn the two plugs ). This would include the Standard, and the Reference ( which are no longer produced ), and the currently produced Solfeggio, Ref J, and the Ne Plus Ultra.

@celander 

To clarify....we have found that the single conductor cables sound best in situations where there isn't a huge voltage or current swing such as a real fire-breathing pre-amp feeding a robust power amp. Such a situation is better dealt with using our 3 conductor cables. Now Jeff's experience with our cables over the last year or so confirmed this, which is the reason he runs a Kronon between a phono or digital stage and  a Reference or a Ne Plus Ultra between the pre and power. Or put another its not so much what the speaker is but more what a speaker requires in term of voltage/current swing that determines what cable is ideal where. Its not the bandwidth its the power handling that is the issue.

Bottom line Jeff is absolutely bang on with his assessment and we at TEO whole heartedly concur.

Hope that clears things up.

Maybe not so much better overall in all situations ( as I mentioned the Kronon is my fave, especially when cost is considered...and it works in most applications ) but having applications in which they are the best. Or put another way, just like speakers, cables, ours included, all have strengths and weaknesses....the trick is to match solutions to problems and produce the least remainder.

Thanks Mr. Celander for jumping in the breach and mapping out the lower end of our line. From there the line extends to include the Solfeggio, the Ref J, and the Ne Plus Ultra which are all based on what we call a three conductor assembly and use a WBT plug ( all the other cables are based on a single conductor assembly, and with the exception of the Kronon, which uses a WBT plug, use a KLE plug ).

Ascribing qualitative value to each cable is difficult as everyone weights various sonic factors differently but to our ears the GC group of cable have a familial sound that becomes increasing better as you move from the Jr to the Ultra. The Kronon however takes takes the significant changes that exist within the GC family, and adds dramatic to the significant change. Its a really stellar cable, and my particular fave in the line. 

The 3 conductor cables take the Kronon strengths and add a robustness to the presentation ( the analogy I use is like going from a great 2-way speaker to a great 3-way...I happen to like 2-ways which is why I have a preference for the Kronon, Ken prefers the three wire assemblies ). The only other strength the three conductor assemblies have is they are better suited for longer runs beyond two meters.  

And btw there are also Double Double versions of the single wire assemblies available and they have the particular charm that defines that sort of design ( in addition to that special voicing that TEO design brings to the table ).

Hope that helps.

Well....first, the Kronon is a single conductor assembly....and as for the comparison between the Double Double cables and the Kronon ?....that is a tougher question to answer because we are really talking apples and oranges. Its sort of like saying a big block Mustang, which is loads of wild fun, is better than the precise handling Miata because it has a vastly better 0-60 time....or.... a Klipschorn is better than a planar speaker because it really kicks out the jams. 

The Kronon, while admittedly not as spectacular as our Double Doubles ( and gawd they are spectacular...as an aside methinks the special sauce in any double configuration is bandwidth extension which btw given our liquid metal conductor we were already at a very marked advantage in regard hard metal but in a double configuration , ooo-weee-baby,  the joint is really really rocking ), is still the more precise instrument. A more definitive and fair comparison will probably have to wait until we finally get around to figure out how to build a Double Double Kronon.

Sorry not a complete answer as this was done in some haste...dinner was calling and my blood sugar was dropping.

Yes indeed our line-up has changed and we will continue to change that line-up in our quest to provide consumers with the best possible product for their budget.

We will not keep products in the line-up if better options are available and better options do keep popping up because are always pushing the envelop. We will also ( and this is a biggee ) will not keep products in the lineup if key components in that product have shown to have their performance deteriorate as production of that component moved to low labour, low quality locations. In fact this was the main reason behind the development of the GC series to replace our Splash series. It was also the reason behind the appearance of a Mk 2, then Mk 3 versions of some of our earlier models. The problem in both cases was a key component turned awful as production was moved by manufacturers to maximize profits.

We decided to keep "running to daylight" and revamped our lineup to keep building around good sounding materials.

And yes we realize this causes some distress in the used market but we can’t control the manufacture of many of the components of our cables and we are not going to stop innovating ( because as much as anything that just doesn’t seem to be in either our personal DNA or that of our wee enterprise...read we started this to bring new ideas forward and we are going to keep heading down that road ).

Moving to accommodate market changes and innovation is a sort of a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario. And frankly we would love to keep building those old models are they were simply great cables. The quality of those products was, and critically, is still high, and as mentioned we changed things (and names ) to as much as anything keep that quality high. So when you buy an older TEO cable you still get much the same voicing and much the same benefits that a liquid metal conductor brings to the cable. 

All the of GC family is available as Double Double variants. We are hoping for a Kronon version to join the team soon. So as the saying goes stayed tuned for developments because that could be one wickedly great cable.

And on the balanced end of things we have balanced equivalents of all the current GC models.

Well....that interface produces mechanical and electrical impedance mismatches that each negatively affect cable performance. Dealing with connector as a mechanical issue reduces the micro-phony, and we have devoted considerable effort to deal with that issue. And in our case the electrical issue has been dealt with by virtue of the liquid conductor's very wide band-width, which btw is mainly what cable doubling with normal solid cable adds to the audio buffet table ( see Bob Smith's excellent comments on this ). What that does is help reduce cable generated noise that is a function of reflection from the conductor/connector impedance mismatch . An analogy might be akin to removing room generated noise, echo, to produce an acoustically correct room. And I think the initial shock that listening to doubling produces is the removal of that noise which is something most folks have had to live with all their audiophile lives, it was almost like the air we breathed as a community ( except of course those who have been enjoying those benefits with our broad-band capable cables...and btw in our doubled cables the doubling effect is even more pronounced than in other doubled cables that rely on solid metal for conducting because we enjoy a significant head start having an already broad bandwidth ).

There are a whole lot of changes as one moves between the GC series and the Kronon, and the change of connectors is one, and a pretty important part of those changes ...( which btw are somewhat inter-related ). That being said there are also a lots of changes moving from a GC Jr to a GC2 or to a GC Ultra, all of which share the same basic plug ( and as above inter-related much like a food recipe has several ingredients which in combination define the taste of the final product , or in the case of a cable, the voicing ) .

Damn !....!....!....been there a couple of times...understand...

@gme109

Ooooh....tough question. It kinda veers into the apples oranges territory because there is no absolute way to make the comparison ( as an example strictly speaking a single ended amp is a different design from a balanced amp ). That being said we have listened to both extensively and both of those cables share the TEO voicing and sound pretty darn good and folks who have bought them are very happy with them.

Best idea might be just to give it a try, after-all there is a money back guarantee so if it doesn’t agree with you or your system you can simply return it.