01-22-08: Dbphd siad:
"Doesn't having a TV between your speakers reduce imaging?"
Probably not, IF the set is done with the TV in place to compensate. I have an armoire between my speakers and it "disappears" with the speakers in the right place.
Dave |
Doesn't having a TV between your speakers reduce imaging?
db |
Well, the only additional thing that I didn't already mention is that they probably need to be tilted back a little. Once you get them set for decent bass and midrange, small changes in the rake will open up the imaging amazingly.
The real problem will be when you move them back toward the rear wall the bass will bloom to the point that it overwhelms and thickens the mids. However, if you work with small movements in and out, being very patient over an hour or so, you can find a point that boosts the bass to where it belongs and doesn't ruin the midrange. 1/4" movements are important.
BTW, you do this one speaker at a time. Start with the left and point the right way off-axis toward the outer wall so that it doesn't influence your set of the left speaker. After you're happy with the left speaker then do the same process with the right speaker. Don't assume that the distance of the left speaker will indicate the distance from the wall for the right speaker. Start with it only about 6" from the rear wall.
You need a reocrd with a lot of accurate bass content AND a lot of vocal content, preferably without much else. Sumiko uses Rob Wasserman's "Duets" with Jennifer Warnes singing "Ballad of the Runaway Horse."
Find a Sumiko dealer, looking for someone carrying Sonus Faber or Vienna Acoustics. Not all, but most are trained by Sumiko to do the set. Hopefully there'll be a DVD later this year to help the DIYers try it. Expect to pay if you're not otherwise a customer.
See my review under Reviews for more about the results. It's not easy because there's some ear training involved and a process to follow, that I've only grossly outlined having observed it once.
Dave |
Dave
I don't see a master set on the sumiko set
Can you expand with a few more details on how you would postion the speakers
What is not seen in these pictures is my listening chair which would be to the right of the angled wall when facing the speakers |
If that's the speaker placement used when you listen to 2-channel, then the systeam can't possibly sound its best. I'll bet that they need to be closer to rear wall, potentially further apart and towed-in. Seldom should they be equadistant from the rear wall because the SPL will differ on either side, due to room differences beyond the speakers.
A Sumiko Master Set will move you from enjoying 80% of the system's potential to close to 100%. You'll be amazed. People here seem to think I'm crazy when I talk about the Master Set, but IMHO it's the most cost effective thing that you can do.
Yes, that room does look pretty lively. You may benefit from some absorbtion on the sides and in front of the speakers on the floor, BUT you've got to set the speakers first before you add room treatments.
Dave |
Hi
I added a few more pics of the room in my system page
I'm very much interested in hearing what people have to say about my electronics and the room. |
Thanks Tim
The room will be treated with GIK Acoustics
In the sketch
The yellow are 242 the Red are Tri traps and the blue are 244
The rest of the treatments displayed in the picture have been removed (Grey areas and Green) |
The treatment ideas in your room diagram look like a good idea. The yellow squares behind the speakers look good as well as the bass traps. As for side wall reflections, it seems as if the walls are far enough away that little would be required but it's fun to experiment.
One thing I can say from my experience is that room treatments do make a difference. The room my system is in now had bare walls when I first put the system in. If you clapped your hand you could hear an echo. As I tried putting panels in different places things changed for the better. I also found out you can go too far by putting up to much absorption. |
Ryder
i would be willing to place absorbtion panels behind the television if that helps things.
Newbee thanks for all your suggestions it's very much appreciated |
Thanks Guys
Some great ideas ! |
No one can tell you where to place you speakers by looking at a picture or drawing of your room. It's a waste of time and effort.
Seriously consider a Sumiko speaker set. See this thread for more insight:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rspkr&1197744079&openusid&zzDcstep&4&5#Dcstep
Dave |
Thanks for all the informative replies thus far
I have added a sketch of my room setup including proposed treatments.
The sketch is done to scale
The drawing has been re worked more then once disregard the old speaker placement and areas shaded in grey |
I'd agree with the previous posters on having some treatments on the front and back wall. From the pictures of your system, it seems like your speakers are quite far from the side walls. If that's the case, treatments on side walls may not be too necessary. I would think the biggest impact would be the front wall and placement of speakers. Your TV at the middle isn't helping too much and I would concur with Newbee's idea. It depends on whether you would be willing to sacrifice aesthetics by placing some absorption panels behind the speakers and/or TV. As for the back wall, you can experiment with either diffusion(tall CD racks or book racks will do) or absorption. |
Without a view of the side walls, back walls, and some indication of where your sweet seat is located its kinda tough, but assuming your listening chair and speakers are triangulated, close to equalaterally, and stereo imaging, especially depth of image, is important to you , I'd probably want to get the speakers a bit further out into the room, have something to cover the TV when listening critically to 2 channel stereo such as a blanket, lap robe etc, and I'd want to hae some deadening or diffusive materiel on the wall behind the listener.
If you don't have specific frequency problem you need to deal with, most domestically approved things will be sufficient to maintain good sound. Think bookcases, wall hangings, large plants, etc located in strategic places.
Nice stuff......Love the tubes. |
I appreciate the reply Timrhu
You have a nice system as well
The side walls are quite aways from the listening seat what treatments do you suggest here if any
Anybody else care to comment
I have added new pictures for my system I would love to hear what my fellow audiophilers think |
Look into some treatment on the wall behind the speakers. A nice tapestry might work in your room as the audiophile stuff (look at my system for the ugly stuff) might not fit the nice decor. As for first reflection points, it looks as though the side walls are quite a distance from your listening seat. Nice system BTW. |
