Any one hear the Schroder arm in a home system?
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The pivoting cantilevered plate that holds the arm has a guiding mechanism underneath it that extends to the back of the arm in parallel with the arm that points to one of the 3 points in the Thales circle. I know Frank's arm does not exactly use the Thales geometry but it is the reference to check for absolute tangency. Think of the Thales tonearm by Michel Huber in reverse. Instead of pivot the headshell with a guiding rod, the Schröder arm pivots at the arm-base. Frank is clever enough to conceal all the extra stuff underneath that plate that holds the armlift. And it's aesthetically pleasing. I wish there's a close up picture that shows all the mechanics but so far it's a trade secret. All I know it's done magnetically to have the least friction. If you're familiar with the Garrard Zero 100 tonearm, there's a guiding rod along with the main armwand and the Schröder uses the same concept except it done at the arm base area. Again, if you have the time, check out my thread in diyaudio forum. Here are couple pictures: http://i43.tinypic.com/9sxnh3.jpg http://i42.tinypic.com/2d11ocz.jpg The segment from point B to point D is where the guiding mechanism is. _______ |
I still don't understand how the rear of the arm knows how far to move to keep things aligned. I mean the only think attached to the record, and guiding the whole mechanism, is a small fragile stylus that is actually moving in all directions within the groove. I would love to see a video of this in action. |
Looking at the photos, I assume that at the distal end of the arm wand there is a bearing of some kind (I have read elsewhere that it is not a string-type bearing) that must have lowest possible friction. How then does the mechanism in the base "know" that the tonearm is pivoting across the surface of the LP? Is there any sort of linkage between the two mechanisms, or does the moving pivot just move independently of the arm wand pivot? If the latter, then it would seem one must re-set the pivoting base each time. And what happens if one wishes to start listening at some cut in the middle of the LP? (Thus I think I have got it wrong; there has to be a link of some kind between the two pivots or maybe the rear of the arm wand is fixed such that the stylus movement must control the whole operation.) |
Raul, Very tempting, but when do I leave well enough alone? I have seen so many great designs and Wally measured Tonearms a few years ago to rotational inertia (the force needed by the groove to move the stylus) across the LP. This basically would be demonstrated by the Tonearms pulling back against the cartridge and produce excessive force on the cantilever. Something that most of us take for granted. It was truly educational. He mentioned some of the best arms he has tested we're the SME, TW 10.5, and Breuer. He also showed some unconventional designs to "stick" along portions of an LP. The reason I bring this up is that my Schroder SQ obviously would excel in such a test beyond all arms and might be why I am so enamored with its sound. I wonder if this new design from Frank would have similar problems. I doubt any bearing that traverses over a pivoting area would have as low friction - inertia. This can honestly be tested. Franks claims to the contrary might be true and then we have something special. I believe linear tracking arms of the true linear variety all suffer from needing high forces against the cantilever to move the stylus. |
Dear Dgad: I don't know which is that price but I would think that the price could goes with the tonearm advantages in this new design over other tonearms. The tonearm quality performance level is the factor that justify a price other than marketing. Anyway, till we don't experienced we can't have a grading on this " novel " tonearm design but knowing the very good job of this designer ( Frank. ) I assume this one will have very high quality performance and will has success. Btw, the japanese tonearm in the link I posted is interesting too, it is a straight one from headshell to tonearm bearing that the designer say " there is no contact at all " and comes with universal removable headshell design as Halcro asked. Good that the analog is growing up on something so important as tonearms with " fresh " ideas. Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
And thankfully, a beautiful looking arm at last. Makes the Kuzma 4 point appear as gross and ungainly as Quazimodo's goitre. Pity Frank didn't include a detachable universal headshell? I would have seriously considered this.....although if it has the same waiting time as Frank's other arms............? |
10-23-12: Larryi Larryi, The new Schroeder arm is not a standart tangential tracking arm. It is a pivoted arm track like a linear-tracker. "The Schroeder arm has an ingenious mechanism whereby the pivot point of the arm mounted on a cam is pulled out in an arc by the stylus to achieve tangency." You can find good pictures here: http://www.stereomojo.com/Show%20Reports/RockyMountainAudioFest2011Showreportp3.htm |
Hi: http://www.vivaudiolab.com/Rigid_Float.html and we can read on similar designs as vintage as 1934 on these patents numbers: """ Garrard design looks similar to US Patent 2983517 by Klein in 1961 and 2516565 by Guy(GE) in 1950. These arms seems to have 0 overhang generally. see also US Patent 1963673 by Patino in 1934 which is using pulley as predecessor to US Patent 4497053 by Wolff in 1985 etc """" Interesting. Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
The mechanism is hidden in the base. The pics will not make it clear how it works. A video would be better. There are two horizontal pivots in the base that articulate. There is also a guide rail hidden in the base that guides the arm in a straight line across the record. From what I understand there is a magnet that helps with that process. The bearings are also very low friction and because of that there is no excessive horizontal mass unlike most linear tracking arms. They also claim no skating force is generated. No string involved in this design. |
The arm falls into a tradition that goes back to the 1950s- pivoted arms that are capable of 0 degree tangential error. If interested there is an extensive thread with lots of photos and diagrams on DIYaudio.com: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/165878-angling-90-tangential-pivot-tonearms.html The thread also discusses some of the issues with this approach. The Schroeder arm shows up about a year ago on that thread. |
Here's a link. http://www.xactaudio.com |
