Bvdiman-
Very good question. I believe that Magico is challenging the typical audiophile modus operandi. Some people find it threatening since it puts their reasoning for buying products that they desire. Take for example Rtn1, which seamlessly criticizing Magico value while owning, what is objectively truly a very poor value, the Avalon Isis. Just because it is big, it does not mean it is worthy. I am truly amazed at the levels of reality banding that is going on, just to protect some vulnerable ego. |
One thing which never cease to amuse is that whenever the name Magico popped, there's bound to be controversies and many will start ridiculing their prices. Wonder why this seldom happen with the many other exotic brands commanding similar or even higher pricing (categorically). Question is, are these other brands' asking price then more commensurate with the quality offered? Or perhaps market profile simply not 'tall' enough to be targeted as yet? |
Hens,
I wonder what marketing are you talking about? Any supported data you like to share? All I have seen so far from Magico, and I have been a big fan for many years now, is a monthly single ad page in TAS. It dwarfs in comparison it to the massive multiple pages ad campaigns of companies like Wilson or YG. Yet, all over the world Magico is being recognize as one of the best, if not the best, loudspeakers brand around. It surpasses YG dealer and distributor dealers network by 10 folds. Are you suggesting that the majority of audiophiles community, all over the world, are all wrong? |
Speaker systems and their pricing will always be a topic of hot debate because more than any other component they are open to subjective assessment within a limitless array of contexts. Full range speaker systems are not inexpensive to produce and the competition for sales in that limited high-$ market is fierce.
If there are brands that grossly over charge for what is delivered I do not believe they will have long term success. European and Asian markets can sort out the wheat from the chaff even more quickly than the US and without strong markets overseas there is little chance for prolonged success.
That Magico is bringing a new model into the market in this economy is a sign of health and growth. That does not come by accident or slick marketing campaigns. They have some good dealers supporting them in the US and Europe and those are hard to come by these days.
I've heard Magico speakers sound great in Europe M5's with Spectral in Munich and at Goodwins with Boulder-- and not so great at a past show (mini 2's). Like other brands they are probably sensitive to rooms and ancillaries.
People may knock them or love them, but I doubt their pricing is inflated based on their obvious build quality and normal import margins.
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"Sorry, it just doesn't add up."
"Actually, it probably does.
Magico's appeal is its no compromise focus on quality...."
And 'there's the rub' - the price is more linked to marketing than it is to either cost of manufacture (surely a fraction of their price) or value for sound (purely subjective but to this day the Magico V3's stand out as the most disappointing 'high-end' speaker I've ever heard (and you can add the Minis to this viewpoint).
Magico find themslves in a circumstance where their speakers have received massive reviews and they need to 'make hay while he sun shines'. Release a new model at 30K less than the awesomely reviewed M5 and there's an instant market from those that couldn't quite reach the stratospheric price levels of the M5. I say good for them - if there are buyers, then they're satisfying a demand and the loss is to those (other companies) that couldn't meet that demand.
Bottom line is that I'm probably not qualified to comment on the sound of speakers priced at such levels, my system being as humble as it is. Nevertheless, I have spent several hours auditionong the Magicos (V3) at the same time as Avalon (Indra) and Wilson Watt Puppy 8's and the Avalons were in an entirely different league. All very personal, of course, but the Avalon Indra's put it all together - one of the best integrated and most persuasive speakers I've heard. The magicos were fine, but didn't seem to present anywhere near the musical landscape that the Indras put forward. To be fair, the Wilsons were also well behind the Indras. All in my subjective and humble opinion of course!
So, if Magico keep finding purchasers with deep enough pockets, then all to the good for them. As far as the advancement of speaker technology goes or the pursuit of the 'live sound', you can relax; it hasn't been found yet. I'm yet to be convinced that Magico are actually ven looking for it!
Apologies to those fans of Magico - ours is a hobby that is inseperable from personal tastes and listening preferences - mine just don't happen to favour the Magico. At least, not at their asking prices. |
"nor does it mean that others cannot do similarly well for lower cost."
Indeed, but I have not seen or heard one. Since you have, and I am sure I will be in total disagreement with you, the only thigh that is left to argue about is "objectivity". You know like, built quality, measurements etc... |
"Sorry, it just doesn't add up."
Actually, it probably does.
Magico's appeal is its no compromise focus on quality. That does carry a price in terms of R&D and associated overhead costs. ANd their products do deliver sterling sound.
All I'm saying is that does not assure value nor does it mean that others cannot do similarly well for lower cost. |
I don't know about pricing as I have never heard magicos... but there are a lot of brands that are in the same price range (Kharma and Tidel to name a few) and there are not mass threads wining about there prices. Then there are other brand that spend far less time engineering and just use off the shelf drives that charge sky high prices... you know who they are...
Also what are the current prices of the V2 and V3? Some one above stated that the V2 was $32k (did you mean V3)? I thought they were $18,000 in the US. |
Rtn1 -
"Sorry, it just doesn't add up."
Please explain why it does not add up? What information do you have about the cost of these speakers. I mean hard numbers not just silly notions you may "feel". Please share your knowledge with us. |
There's other speakers out there that sound just as good, if not better for way less (same goes for other audio stuff like amps and cables)
Whether I have the extra dough or not, I learned through experience. |
Beware telling a Magico dealer that you like what you hear. I've had the experience of a dealer attempting to ridicule me for questioning the value. They sounded good to me so I should be willing to write my check for over $30000 immediately, a 50% price increase from the year before, else I am a fool, right? Wrong. They were not that good! I can select from many very fine speakers that also sound fantastic for that kind of change, some at a fraction of the cost. There are many nice fish in the sea! |
Grant, I agree with you for the most part about pricing with high end audio. I always look at the value of a product, and I believe there are some very expensive pieces that remain very good values. However, I also believe Magico has pushed the price envelope beyond what I would consider to be reasonable. Having heard the V3 for example, I think the price they ask is obscene. The V2 is 32k, and the M5 is 90k. Sorry, it just doesn't add up.
Some may disagree with my assessment, and others may think that my speakers cost too much money. I'm just contributing to the discussion because I believe Magico brings criticism upon itself by the pricing they employ. |
Having listened with and enjoyed the 5's its good to know they have what looks like a full range model in a lower price category. Looking forward to hearing the Q at CES.
Regarding retail cost, everyone has a different opinion regarding value and what represents a reasonable price model. Most often these values are intertwined with one's own budget, system and what each of us thinks is "acceptable" based on limited experience. A short course with the fixed costs, small economy and overhead required to maintain any boutique business in HE Audio would send most looking for other job opportunities. There are extremely few people in high end business circles that make anything more than a simple living and even fewer brands that can get away with over-pricing goods. That happens far more with mass-market brands than small to medium sized high-end companies..
Definitely, there are uber-expensive products that will likely only appeal to a few retail customers but I seriously doubt they are over-priced or inflated beyond what they have to sell for. They are likely priced to stay in line with the revenues the company needs to grow its brand or at least keep pace in what is probably the most competitive market segment in all of H.E Audio--speaker systems.
From what I see there are very few products or companies left that get away with grossly over-pricing their products. Some few cable-based and off-commercial market brands still do as a means of buying dealer loyalty or balancing the US vs. Overseas retail pricing. That is the rare exception these days however and not the rule.
Regards,
Grant
Shunyata
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Mapman and Tpreaves, these prices are just plain silly ridiculous, and yes, there are many others in this wonderful economy. |
Looks like they'll enable Magico to be more cost competitive with mbl 101s and such. Are these Magicos for smaller rooms or can they really compete with the mbls in larger rooms? |
Selling everything I own wouldn't get me close to affording these - USD54k apparently! My point, exactly. |
http://www.avguide.com/blog/quo-vadis-magico-introduces-new-line-loudspeakers-ces-2010
Tomer |
"Sell everything you own and buy these speakers.They are surely the cat's meow."
Selling everything I own wouldn't get me close to affording these - USD54k apparently! |
I find very interesting that they are not using anymore the scanspeek tweeter
this will probably become an upgrade for the V3 |
Sell everything you own and buy these speakers.They are surely the cat's meow. |
Looks awesome but I am sure it is WAY to rich for my blood. Maybe this will inspire some of you lucky V2 and V3 owners to sell your stuff so I can afford it lol... |
The tweeter is a dome tweeter which is different in the V and M series. The Q does borrow the front design from the V3 and the exterior is a composite form instead of sandwiched layered birch.
Wonder if the 4 mid/low drivers are different in the Q series than the V and M drivers. |
Impressive looking.
Appears to be a culmination of past designs with a new skeleton which looks extremely interesting. |
Yay, another speaker design from Magico that I suppose few will be able to afford.
I guess we just get to look at pictures and drool for now. Not much info on the site, kind of like walkig into a fancy Soho boutique with 5 items on display....you know that they will carry a hefty price tag.. Oh, and the nav on the site is very clunky and user un-friendly.
BTW I think Magicos sound great, but I am not a boutique kind of guy in general. |
Hi Clavil!
Yup, just saw it too yesterday. It will be interesting, can't wait.. |
