NEW Cerious Technologies Upgrade - Graphene Matrix Cables

phxstubes,

Congrats! 
I have been through so many cable brands until I found the Cerious. They really impress me.

ozzy

So, after 20 hours they were really close to the Valhalla.  How did they compare to the Valhalla after 130 hours?

Dave

I wanted to share my experience with switching to the Graphene Matrix/Extreme from Nordost, Audience, and PS Audio.

After a fellow audiogoner who is local to me told me about Cerious Technologies I reached out to Bob to ask some questions about the product(s) and he was very ease to communicate with. 

My original intentions were to replace some tired PS Audio Signature speaker cables.for context I had demoed in my system Nordost Frey II and Tyre II.

I placed and order for 10' GM speaker cables and decided to try 1.5M RCA GM interconnects which would replace my Audience AU24's between my DAC and Integrated. I am fortunate enough to be 30 min away from Bob so I was able to pick the cable up directly. 

I should note that I am sensitive to overly forward or tipped up presentation so I always have concerns when I here words like "resolving and transparent".

The first few hours in the system had me concerned the GM's for my ears are a little hot... That being said the best advise I can offer is LET THEM BREAK IN without moving them. You will be rewarded for your patiences. In my system the first 20hrs got me 50% there, 80hrs about 90% there, and I have heard much change after 200hrs.

In comparison to the Frey II and the Tyre II, they have a more balance presentation and less emphasis on micro detail. This isn't to say they are not detailed I just simply mean that the Frey and Tyre overly emphasize micro detail to the point where they are tipped up a bit in the upper mid and higher frequencies. 

I have been fortunate enough to listen to the cables with Arcam A32, Luxman 590AX II and D-08u, Aqua Formula DAC, Meridian DAC, Jolida 202A, Line Magnetic 210IA all being sent to Golden Ear References and powered through Nordost QX4, QB8 and Nordost Frey II power cables. I always allow 3+ days for the cables to settle back in.

The results are always the same. Balanced tonality big wide and deep soundstaging, well articulated, and great texture to vocals.

Now I have purchased 2 10' GE power cords for the Golden Ears and 2 GM to replace the Frey II's coming from my wall outlet to the QX4 and from the QX4 to the QB8 (5' and 3' respectively). When I picked up the CT power cords I was demoing the beautiful Luxman 590AX ii and the Luxman D-08u with a Nordost Valhalla II power cable from the wall to the QX4. I placed all of the CT power cord into my system and out of the box the GM sounded really good, not as well put together as the Valhalla sonically but the Valhalla was fully broken in. 20hrs later I just left the Valhalla out of the system the GM's were just hitting the mark and were besting the Frey II power cords with a more neutral tone and expansive soundstage and really close the the Valhalla. I have about 130hrs on the power cords now and feel they are fully broken in. I am very pleased with experience the CT cable are giving me.

One last point to make is these cable are large in diameter but with well thought out routing and purchasing the proper length for the chosen routing I have found no issues with the diameter or flexibility of these cable.

I hope my experience helps anyone who may be on the fence about these cables.

will produce usb cable?

then it seems is not for me as is not faithful to the signal transfer.

so what is the sound characteristics of rhodium?

Thanks for the responses!  I was curious because I've had power cords with rhodium connectors, and I can tell the sonic signature every time.  For me, there are some things to like, but other things that kind of bug me.  Many love rhodium, but perhaps I'm just a gold or silver connector guy at heart - even for power amps.  :-)

Dave

From the site:
"...
Choice of Rhodium or Gold Plated connectors. General opinions favor Gold for low level equipment and Rhodium for high current applications ..."

thezaks,

Yes, I do. 
I think the gold is used on digital power cords while the silver/rhodium  for analog.

ozzy

Thanks @genjamon  !

Does anyone have the Cerious power cords with different (gold) connectors?

Dave

@thezaks they're the rhodium connectors, same as the graphene extremes were

@genjamon  - for your Matrix power cord(s), what ends are on the stock cable - gold, silver, rhodium?

Thanks,
Dave

I originally switched from Transparent Super MM2, both XLR's and bi-wire speaker cables, to the Cerious Nano and thought the upgrade quite significant...now using a combination of Cerious GE and Matrix...

genjamon,

Best I can add is I went from the Cerious Extreme to the Matrix and it was a serious (pun intended) upgrade.

68pete,

Surprisingly I have never tried/owned Transparent cables. I guess once I seen pictures of the insides of one of their attached "boxes" I decided against trying them. Funny, there is not much mention about Transparent cables these days. I have however owned MIT which are perhaps similar.

ozzy

Ozzy
 I Read early in the Thread, that you had some Transparent cables. What level of Transparent are they? Where they speaker or interconnects or both.
Thanks Pete

Well, I've just been putting loads of time on the new cables.  I also have a new amp in the house as well as some new Jupiter output caps in my preamp.  So, I've been running in everything 24/7 at low levels, with occasional active listening some evenings.  I have a group session at my place on Saturday, so have been trying to put as much time on everything as possible before then.  Cables should have around 500 hours on them by Saturday, with the Jupiter caps around 400 I think, and the amp at a little over 200 hours.  

After our session, I hope to do some comparisons between the Graphene Extreme cables, which are still in house, and the Matrix.  Since each set of cables take time for their sound to settle after movement, it's not really possible to A/B properly.  Anyway, I share my impressions sometime next week I expect.  

I also hope to compare the Furutech FI-50 to the standard Matrix - since I still have one functional Matrix with the FI-50.  Again, hopefully by next week.

Yes, lets hear from some newbies. I'm quiet because i'm completely satisfied with the sound of my system. I will never say never anymore but right now I no longer feel a need to try out new cables.

So, things have been quiet for a while, any newbies with these cables?

ozzy

Would have liked to change my matrix PC connectors but slightly put off by the issues genjamon experienced due to the cable strain. Has anyone changed the matrix connectors with success?

I have found  off-brand Indonesian safety pin connectors provide best synergy in my system. Of course, YMMV

It's amazing how much connectors can affect the sonics.  I've even been amazed at the difference between gold, silver, and rhodium connectors.  So I'm sure it's a balance of finding connectors that provide great sound, as well as reliability and cost.  I'm glad that Bob, who has lots of experience and does this every day, is figuring out this balance and complimenting his cable in the best way possible for us. 

Dave

That’s funny Bob you mention that some of the knock off connectors are being made better than other name brands. When I received the set of Furutech NCF’s and started to terminate them my first thought was how much cheaper they felt in my hand compared to the Chinese knock off FI-50’s I’ve been using that someone here shared (I believe it was lak).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Set-Copper-Rhodium-Plated-US-AC-Power-Plug-Carbon-Fiber-Connector-Adapter...

The knock offs seem easier to work with as well. To me these cheap versions are on par with the standard Furutech FI-50’s whereas the NCF’s are clearly superior sounding with their nano crystal formula being the difference but for $500 to $700 more depending on where you get them.

Since we don't know the name of the chinese connectors you use... I will officially name them Grostborg?

Hi everybody...Bob from Cerious...
Connectors are such a pain. Everyone has a favorite! We try to offer the best possible performance at the lowest cost. We demand intrinsic value. Many connectors today are little more than jewelry and are actually more poorly made than the knock offs that cost 1/10 the price. We do not use Viborg connectors. We do have our connectors custom made by the parent company to our parameters of plating and clearances. It is fascinating to deal with Chinese companies who can make anything you want - you just have to be very specific about what you want. Now...addressing Furutech connectors. I have never had an experience with Furutech connectors that was positive. While it is impressive to polish the internal metal parts to a high shine, the parts of the connector that screw together to clamp the connector housing in place over the cable so it does not spin requires some friction only available with a rough surface. My son had to reef on the connector to get it even close to being stable. It still had movement and wound up shorting by how much pressure was exerted on the internal conductors.
Those of you who have dealt with us in the past know that we go more than the extra mile to take care of our customers. We can no longer deal with Furutech connectors. Just too difficult to work with in the configuration of the Matrix conductors and damping jacket. Thanks everybody!
Bob

Yeah, it was a bummer.  Bob has been very responsive and is replacing with a new cable with the stock connectors.  I still have one Matrix PC with the Furutech FI-50 connectors that I've been burning in and will be able to compare to a stock Matrix PC once they've burned in sufficiently.  I'll have 144 hrs on the PC's after today.  Will probably do a comparison this weekend - so they should have well over 200 hrs on them by then.  

Genjamon, thanks for sharing the information, very good to know!

I feel the need to comment on the connector issue here.  The one of my four PC's that had an issue was due to the Furutech FI-50 carbon connector (non-NCF material, but otherwise the same as the NCF design).  There was buzzing noise and a puff of smoke from the connector before the power conditioner's circuit breaker tripped.  After removing from the system, I opened up the connector, and it appears the spacing of the screw terminals for the wires are wider than with the stock Viborg ones.  This made it pretty hard for Bob to route the wires from his thick/stiff Matrix wire bundle into the screw terminals and secure well.  It makes any torque you put on the power connector more capable of pulling the wires out of their screw sockets and potential for short circuiting.  This appears to be what happened in my case.  

As a result, I'd be very careful about these Furutech connectors, making sure there's enough wire slack for really solidly securing them in screw terminals, and adequate wire insulation between Matrix wire bundle and screw terminal itself within the housing.  The very heavy-duty thick and stiff Matrix wire bundle creates quite a bit of torque on the connections as you bend it around to deal with system angles.  

Thanks maxima95. That size probably does make a difference. I was thinking even the barrel opening might not be large enough on the FI-28 for the large diameter of the Matrix. 

The FI-50 and the Viborg specs say they accept a cable up to 20 mm.  The FI-28 is specified up to 17.5 mm.

Has anyone tried to replace the stock connectors on the Matrix? If so, what with and how did it sound?

@yoby 

Wow, good to know about the FI-28 R. I usually get my bulk cable, at least the Furutech, from Chris at VH Audio. He’s always got good prices and ships fast and is a pleasure to deal with. 

I’m wondering if the contact openings on the FI-28’s are large enough to take the wire from the Matrix? They should be similar to the NCF’s, you think?

Hi t_ramey: Like you, I bought the Fururtech NCF connectors at a discounted price. The sound of them is clearly superior to Bob's stock connectors, which  IMO are average. I have Furutech FI-28 (R) connectors on all of my other AC cords (Marigo), and I believe you get 90 % of what the NCFs have to offer ($95 vs $350 each). The Oyaide P- 004 have a sound identical to the Fururtech FI-28s at about the same price. Where did you buy the DSP-4 cable? Jeff

T_ramey thanks for your insight!
Well done...

I picked up a set of NCF connectors for about half price from a dealer here on Agon to put on a DPS-4 cable and while they’re great and probably the best connector available I still feel they’re overpriced. They definitely improve the quality of the DPS cable but compared to the Matrix with stock connectors I prefer the Matrix. They’re both excellent cables and can see it just coming down to the individual system and personal preference but with Bobs trade in value the Matrix is a no brainer. I had both cables on my Melody AN845 and Lampizator Atlantic dac. Currently have each component with a Matrix and Matrix sc’s to the speakers while having a DPS-4 on the 1800 conditioner that feeds both units and I’m getting tremendous sound. 

I agree with ozzy that the DPS has deeper fuller bass than the Matrix but the Matrix just has an uncanny way of detailing the music without any glare or harshness that makes it easy to listen to. I think the DPS has a deeper and warmer all around sound, some would say organic, and can see depending on the system some could prefer it. Would love to get more Matrix pc’s but it might be a while before I do  :(

I believe aniwolfe and t_ramey are correct.
aniwolfe is keeping me updated with his keen find info powers ;-)

I think yoby here had ordered and received a Matrix pc with the stock connectors and one with the NCF’s. I’d be curious what he thinks now after having both if the NCF connectors were worth the extra cost. Of course he could have already had them and just sent them to Bob to install but none the less it would make for a great follow up comparison. 

@jmcgrogan2 

Looking at the pictures on the CT website. It seems like he is using Viborg Connectors. I found some on Ebay with the exact logo mark. Ebay item number "202139214581"

Thank you ozzy.

maxima95,

I own the Furutech DPS-4 with the Furutech NCF nano connectors and the Cerious Technologies Matrix cables.

These cables are both very good but do something different. I have found that the DPS-4 provides more bass (deeper bass also) while the Cerious Matrix is a little tighter in the bass. 
I guess it depends on what you like.

ozzy

Thank you lak

On my Plinius Reference amp in my system the Matrix was better.  That’s the only comparison I made with those two power cords. I shipped the Matrix back to the owner so I no longer have it. Ozzy might be able to answer that question for you more so than myself.

Does anyone who compared the Matrix and DPS 4 (NCF or other ends) PCs have any observations?

Thanks

My Matrix SC's and 4 PC's arrived yesterday.  Had an issue with one of the PC's, but the other three PC's and SC's are working fine and in the system making music.  First impressions cold out of the box were very promising!  Martin Sexton, Ray Lamontagne, and Stevie Ray Vaughn all sounded very realistic!  Highs weren't as open, detailed, or extended as I have heard on my system, but I assume they will open up over time.  But the midrange was very engaging, and the midbass/bass had a nice increase in weight/heft, and overall a very dynamic sound that was working great for this kind of rock music.  Looking forward to the break-in process.

Teo vs Matrix; seem to me that one has to compare the two that are in a similar price range.
For example the Matrix Interconnects and the TEO Ultra's. Now that would be a fair comparison in my opinion.

@genjamon , I have not heard the GC II but compared to the GC the Matrix is more natural, effortless, dynamic and real sounding. I’m not saying the GC isn’t good because it’s very good but the Matrix is spectacular.

@lancelock  How would you describe the differences between the Teo and the Matrix IC's?  I have Teo GC interconnects currently, and have been considering stepping to the new Teo GC II's, or possibly Teo Ultra's.  But the Ultra's are in the same ballpark price as the Cerious Matrix.  Hard for me to justify jumping into that price league, so I might have to settle with the GC II upgrade path, but any of your thoughts might help.