New Bel Canto REF600M using NCORE


Wow!!..Looks like John hit another home run at Bel Canto with the just released REF 600M using NCORE amplifiers. 300 watts into 8ohms. $4500.00 a pair. The REF 1000M is out of production. I have a feeling this is Bel Canto's best amp ever below the Bel Canto Black. Look forward to Guido checking it out.
audiozen

Steven Stone reviews the Ref 600m in the January issue of the Absolute Sound. In his conclusion, he states, “To my ears, it is good enough to qualify as the best all-around power amplifier I’ve heard to date, regardless of technology or circuit topology.” Chalk up another win for Bel Canto!


While Mr. Stone does not dwell on it, he does note, “ With the Ref600M powered up I could hear only the faintest hiss if I put my ears within a few inches of the Spatial’s coaxial driver [his review speaker]”. He later compares his recently refurbished Pass Labs X150.3. “After its return from the factory, the Pass was almost as quiet in terms of noise (without a signal) as the Ref600M, with only a slightly higher hiss level and zero hum.”


I find this very interesting. How common is this hiss/hum issue? Is it caused by class D topology? Seems not, given the reviewer experiences this even with his class A/B Pass amp. And is this issue caused by every product of a certain design or does it depend on what other components are in your system? All three of the class A/B amps I’ve previously owned were completely silent when powered on but playing no music. Putting my ear to the speakers revealed zero sound. Then I got my current Audio Research DSi200 integrated amp (class D) and it does produce a faint hiss from the tweeters and low level hum from the woofers of my Revel F208s. Close up, it is easily heard, but it’s faint enough that it can’t be heard from any further than a couple feet away, even in a silent room.


I don’t feel this hiss/hum thing is a deal breaker. My current system plays music very well. But ideally, I would never experience hiss at all.



No hiss or hum with my Bel Canto ref1000m or C5i. In fact noise floor is lowest I have heard.  
I’m using ICEPower units and have no such issue. The noise from the Parasound P7 is far worse, and still only detectable close to the speakers. If Bel Canto is using their own linear supplies however I could see this as an issue. Also, digital amps like ICEPower and nCore tend to have truly differential inputs that aren't very happy with single ended inputs and prefer transformer coupling in those cases. I wonder if this is what was experienced?

<< shrug >>

Erik
All this talk about noise/hum is a bit mute, without proper bench test results.

The way to "pseudo" see what is noisier than what without looking at them on the test bench, is to disconnect the preamps and put shorting input plugs on the power amp inputs, this is a better layman’s way of saying what noisier than what.

BTW some not all Class-D’s modules, don’t even switch their main section on, if there’s no signal present, they may appear to be on. And then there’s different amp gains to consider as well, as this also has a bearing on noise levels.

Cheers George
@blang11, every amp regardless of type produces an audible hiss (heard from tweeter) when it is powered on and connected to efficient speakers. For those who believe or state otherwise I'd venture to say they simply cannot hear it. That wouldn't be unusual because we all know that as we age we loose the ability to detect high frequency, dome more than others.

My ears are discerning enough that if I put them within an inch or so of the tweeter I can hear the difference between an amplifier that is powered on versus powered off. 
@mapman

Funny you mention both the Ref600m and C5i because I’ve recently had both of them in house for a comparison. Using my PS Audio Directstream Junior and the SPDF Line In on the C5i, I notice very little tweeter hiss at low volume and high tweeter hiss as the volume on the C5i is raised. When I swapped out the C5i for the ref600m, the hiss was even greater, perhaps the loudest hiss I’ve heard from my Revel F208 speakers. This was all with the DSJ set to its higher gain setting. Switching it to the low gain setting dramatically reduced the hiss level. Still detectable but barely. I’m quite happy with this arrangement. I’m now the proud owner of the DSJ/Ref600m pairing.  


Does the Bel Canto Ref600 power amplifier used the NC500 or the NC1200 power module?  I heard each referenced in two different review.  I also know the Ref600 uses the NC1200 power supply.  Thanks..
I found the following in the above post:

"John has also confirmed that each REF600 chassis sports an NCore NC500 amplification module, in addition to an NC1200/700 SMPS".  Thanks.  

Does anyone that purchased the Bel Canto Ref600 mono block amps have any comments on these amps? I am planning on auditioning them shortly and am looking for your comments. All the reviews have been very positive but input from actual owners would be appreciated.  Thanks. 
We spent a afternoon with them on different speakers. Make sure you hear them with your speakers before purchasing.
As they "can" sound good with flat 4ohm’ish impedance, but also not so good if the upper-mid/high impedance curve of the speaker looks a bit like a roller coaster.

Cheers George
hgeifman

I bought a pair of Bel Canto Ref 600Ms about five weeks ago, and so far I am very pleased. They are still breaking in, but I already find the sound very clean and clear with dead quiet background and nice, musical articulation of acoustic instruments. I find no harshness or edge to the sound--once the system is warmed up.

My front end is an Esoteric K-01 (mostly playing CDs) and an ARC LS25 Mk II; speakers are Focal Alto Utopia Be.

I suspect the tubed LS25 is contributing positively to the musicality and lack of edge. As someone once said,

"A good amp is like a sewer: What you get out of it depends on what you put into it."




" I suspect the tubed LS25 is contributing positively to the musicality and lack of edge."
"A good amp is like a sewer: What you get out of it depends on what you put into it."
Same for "the best preamps" they should be "totally transparent" like a direct source to poweramp connection, yet with control over the volume.
Not adding "musicality" or removing "edge" if any.

Cheers George
Have a pair of REF600M's coming this week. Current amps are a Krell TAS and a Bryston 3BST.  Speakers are Thiel 1.6 and 3.6.  DAC/preamps are Mytek Brooklyn + and Cambridge DacMagic Plus.  More details as I get then burned in.