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Need some information about DSD over HDMI

I'm not sure whether this is a really dumb or really complicated question, but I'm hoping there's an answer. I have a Cambridge Audio CXU universal player which I really like, but which doesn't support I2S. Instead, it outputs DSD directly over HDMI, but very few DACS accept this protocol. In fact, the only one I know of is Bryston's highly respected BDA3. My current DAC is an AMR DP-777 which I also really like but it's old enough that neither of these protocols are supported. My SACDs end up being internally converted to PCM by the CXU player, and output over analog connections, so the external DAC is bypassed entirely. Okay, pretty standard stuff so far, I think. However, I have lately been very tempted to try out one of the newer R2R ladder DACs from Audio-gd or Denafrips, which DO support I2S. So my question is: does any kind of adapter exist that can convert the DSD data on my SACDs to I2S format so that one of the aforementioned DACs can accept it? Thanks for helping me out with this. 
cooper52
11 responses Add your response
tom6897's avatar
tom6897
1,484 posts
 
If you check with the manufacturer I think that there is a way to find out how the HDMI is wired internally to the contacts. That must be done the same way as the receiving Dac that accepts I2S. Some manufacturers use a proprietary contact scheme that is not universal to other DACs, therfore the "handshake" between the two devices creates an error. (If known which wires go to which pin on the hdmi you can wire your own hdmi cable). I successfully did it one time with an ethernet connection using cat6e cable I had lying around and it worked!

I have mentioned before in other threads that there needs to be a standard protocol for players and receivers that have I2S to all use the same wiring protocol so that all devices that have an HDMI/I2S input-output can talk to each other. 
mahler123
3,317 posts
 
Why not just by the Bryston?  I bought it precisely for this reason and then sold off my Mytek Manhattan 
fuzztone's avatar
fuzztone
5,598 posts
 
"You can wire your own."
Wrong. I can barely write any more.
Yes there is a market for HDMI/i2s adapters, it's just not a big enough market for any entrepreneurs to help us. 
You’re on your own.
"There needs to be"
Not as long as manufacturers want to keep sales in house. PS Audio pretty much invented it and it iS the most copied protocol.
I have found very few problems going i2s into their DACs.
pinwa
285 posts
 
I asked a similar question on one of the SACD groups on facebook and I was directed to a product on ebay that is supposed to extract the DSD and output it over I2S.  If you search ebay for  HDMI/MHL to IIS I2S HDMI IIS I2S Separate Extract Audio I2S/DSD/Optical/Coaxial you will get some products that claim to do this.  I ordered one from Aliexpress that should come this week so I don't know yet whether they actually work as advertised.
cooper52 OP
183 posts
 
Thanks, everybody, for the responses so far. Yes, I have of course considered buying the Bryston DAC, and though the BDA 3 does occasionally appear on the used market, it was my interest in R2R DACs that prompted my question. I'll be very interested to hear whether the adapter from Ebay actually works. I'll stay tuned.
pinwa
285 posts
 
I got the HDMI extractor today and I can confirm that it is capable of outputting a 2.28 MHz DSD signal to my D70 DAC over I2S.  The D70 requires you to set the IIS Phase to REV which I think is the PS Audio standard.  When you are sending DSD over the HDMI cable it doesn't have any audio output on the Coax or Optical connections.  But if you switch the settings for the player so that it isn't forced to output DSD then the extractor will play 176.4 Khz PCM (?) over I2S, Optical and Coax.  All of this is with the switch set to "amp".  I didn't try the other two settings.  Pretty cool for $60.   I've only had it running for a little while but it seems to work well and sound quality is good. At some point I will have to spend some time comparing the sound from the players RCA outputs to sending DSD to the DAC but my assumption is the DAC will be better but that remains to be tested.
cooper52 OP
183 posts
 
Thanks, pinwa, for the info. Glad the extractor is working for you, and I'd be interested to hear any further opinions you may have about how it performs.
schulist
2 posts
 
currently running a media centre pc with a linux based kodi operating system, (libreelec) i dont think kodi does dsd but i could be wrong? i would be happy to dual boot snakeoil and kodi on that machine if snakeoil does dsd over hdmi? if not i could probably put windows on there. i am also wondering if intel integrated graphics hdmi can do this or if any of a number of nvidia and raeon graphics cards that i have could do it,
schulist
2 posts
 
currently running a media centre pc with a linux based kodi operating system, (libreelec) i dont think kodi does dsd but i could be wrong? i would be happy to dual boot snakeoil and kodi on that machine if snakeoil does dsd over hdmi? if not i could probably put windows on there. i am also wondering if intel integrated graphics hdmi can do this or if any of a number of nvidia and raeon graphics cards that i have could do it,


aces etm hr access

seantipps04's avatar
seantipps04
1 posts
 

@schulist Right now, I am paying attention to a multichannel DSD torn record (on my NAS) played by JRiver to the Oppo 103 through LAN. The Oppo, thus, is associated with the Marantz by HDMI and all Marantz capacities are pertinent. Set it on Direct and the DSD goes through to the DACs or mood killer Direct and get Audyssey or other DSP.

Much thanks for setting aside the effort to figure this out.

I should concede I have little involvement with sending yield over the LAN. Any direction on that would be incredible.

My provisional arrangement is to explore different avenues regarding conveying the messages over HDMI to get moving. I don't know yet it additionally appears to be feasible to convey the messages over USB notwithstanding the LAN.

I read someplace that I want to utilize the second HDMI out on the Oppo to do this. Is that right?

The unit shows up Tuesday. I will be running

Aces Etm

 

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