Well, the new Outlaw sub has gotten excellent reviews, and it sells for about $550 as I recall. The sub was designed for Outlaw by Hsu. You should also consider the small subs made by Paradigm and PSB, and for about $800-900, you can also get the Vandersteen 2Wq, which is a very musical sub (I have two of them in my system, and am very pleased with their performance). |
For your size room, it will be easy to pressurize it with bass. If it truly is 10 feet by 10 feet, then there may be problems with modes at certain frequencies. Don't go too big, you will waste your money. I have both Hsu VTF-3 Mark 2 (in a big room) and REL Q108E (in a small room) and I like the quality of their bass. Music is paramount to me and these two do it well. I like the trial period that Hsu, SVS and Outlaw give you because you will not know what the sub will sound like until you actually have it in your room and calibrated. If you don't like it, it just costs you shipping back to them. I think you would be happy with the outlaw sub and spend the rest of the money elsewhere. I am a big fan of Hsu subs. Good luck and happy hunting! |
With a budget of 800 I'd definitely be looking at a used REL Strata or another model. They are great for HT and music. |
I like your Infinity RABOS (EQ) 10 SW10(?) sub to fix your bass mode problems in that room! Otherwise, at the very least, you have to consider placing smaller fast subs at the half way room points (otherwise, a good "subwoofer table stack" in the very middle of the room to tame that serious room mode for 10' boundaries!!!
Otherwise, yes, the Paradigm PS1000 and Outlaws are good little subs for the money. Still, I like fast 8" subs for that small room, over size!
Basically, you other problem in small rooms is "bass absorbption" and too much bass energy/reverb!!!
Small rooms are compromises anyway, unless you know what you're doing, and can deal with the bass challenges, and balance the diffusion in the room (don't use too much absorbtion for mids/highs..hint.)
That all said, getting the right sub set up right (also phase/balance) is where it's at!!! Otherwise, you get what everyone else ends up with, boom and slop!
Good luck |
What subs have you heard.If you could give a listen in person to any sub and then share your experience.I feel the only sub is a DIY.First off because you get what you want and not a sub that fits into a marketing structure.There are a ton of subs in your price range.IMHO you need to get an impression first to compare.Good luck!
The reason I say "in person" is you need to hear and feel bass.My sub system has (4) 15" Adire Tumults with (4) Adcom 555 mkII's bridged mono.I use a Marchand BASSIS to extend the sealed response and a Behringer 1124p to remove the room mode problems.The room is acoustically treated to a "T" and I use TrueRta to get it flat to 10hz.This is bass that at 85-90db is world class.You my think this is perfect and if you are normal you will say subwoofer "X" at the local stereo store did it for me for a fraction.It's all about figuring out how much bass and to what quality you are looking for.
Let your ears tell the story. |
Tgrisham,
I also own a Hsu VTF3 and am quite happy with it. How does Hsu in your opinion compare to REL? Hsu's seem to be a better value... I am assuming that REL is a bit better at a significantly higher price... Is this a fair statement?
thanks, Paul |
They are very different from each other. The Hsu is large with a large driver, is ported and has a large amp. I barely use it for music because my floor=standing speakers go to 34 Hz. Not much music goes below that, but some does. My REL is a small one, Q108E, but in using it with my small bookshelf speakers which go to 50 or 55 Hz, it is really wonderful. I forget its there. It is small and out of the way, but when i turn it off, the bottom is gone. For only $700, it is great at what it does. I spent $900 on the Hsu, then upgraded the amp to Mark II. I am very happy with both! |
The Onix rocket UFW-10 would serve well in your room. You might try corner loading the sub you wind up choosing. You are likely going to have some interesting null/peak challenges in your room. |
Yeah...a 10x10' room? You definitely can forget the 4x15" subs with mono's! Call it a hunch(lol).
Yes, you need quality well integrated fast solid bass. I think it's reasonable to say you'll be staying with mass marketed, and forgoing the custom DIY, ya think? And, actually there's enough good subs out there that, set up well (the key), will do you proud really.
For that room, I like dual fast 8" subs (even push/pulls, like MX stuff from M&k, for instance MX70), or subs with a tight "Q", even more musical vs, monsterously sloppy and boomy. Read a reivew or two...then choose wisely |
Not to sound snipity but bass is not fast.If the "Q" is low enough and the F3 is typical of an eight inch driver what is deemed fast is rolled off bass, in other words it's a woofer not a subwoofer.
DIY is not for everyone, that is a fact.Yes, there are enough mass market subs out there.Vandersteen got around this with (3) 8" drivers with separate amps for each driver.The "Q" is adjustable also.A couple of these used would do you well.
The (4) 15's is an example of what I needed to acheive a response in my room.All the subs I listened to failed to dig as deep as my DIY system.Laughing out loud fails to help and only creates problems.Lets learn from one another and help this member find a sub that creates sound he can enjoy for years to come.
Good luck with your search. KG |
Kgveteran,
I see that you brought up the (3) 8" Vandersteen. I have been looking at that sub also. How do you think that it would stack up to the Def. Tech. Supercube II? To give you a little more info about my system; I have Boston Acoustic VR950 front speakers, VR940 rear speakers, and the VRC center speaker. I watch mostly action/sci-fi movies and the music I listen to swings more toward rock. And additional subs worth looking at? Thank you for everyone that has provided me with some help! |
The Vandersteen really does music well.It has that fast feel with the help of a steep high pass at the tuning frequency.Add to that variable "Q" which can roll off more of that low 20hz signal and you will have what people call a fast sounding sub.The 2W has never gotten good reviews for hometheater.I have heard of multiple stacked versions but that doesn't make much sense.
Can you drop by a Def Tech dealed to give a listen.Since I began building my own I seem to know less and less of the commercial brands these days.SVS is a huge favorite on the AV science forum.There is a true cult following.I have heard the Ultra12 and it really packs a punch.
Try your hardest to get into a dealership and do some real listening.You will answer your own questions about subs after a short time in a good videoroom. |
I've found that there is a difference between a sub excelling for music but less so for HT are vice versa. Some subs do both fairly well, but usually one pover the other. Vandersteen certainly has a strong following in general. The whole feel is too recessed for me for HT personally. Vandersteen is for music lovers who like that sound.Richard is not really an HT designer at heart( thats a complement) Also, having had the Boston Acoustic VR940s myself, I cant imagine a Vandy would be a good match, but I never tried that combination. A 15 inch sub is too large in a 10x10 room, IMO. Heck I am not sure the full wavelength of an 18hz signal can even be fully realized in a 10x 10 space. AS far as bass being fast or not, I think what that poster was getting at is musical responsivity vs hitting U-571 DVD soundtrack impressively and I do agree. The woofer/subwoofer size is only one factor of many obviously. SVS makes a line of great subs for HT that do music well also. The UFW-10 excels at music and does HT well. After that, there is a list of superstars like the Velodyne DD-18 for instance but that class of sub is way overkill for the 10x10 room. Just chiming in here... |
The Revel Sub 30 is expensive but worth the money. The setup software is exceptional. The B-15 is also an incredible sub. They both feature three paramatric equalizers. Kevin Voecks has really done his homework at Revel. There are review at Audio Revolution and on Stereophile. |
