My personal experience with Direct Drive versus Belt Drive


This is my personal , yet limited experience, with a DD versus Belt Drive. This A/B took place in the same system. with literally the same tonearm. I am choosing not to mention brands at this point. I feel by keeping the brand out of the discussion, anyone who contributes to the the thread (myself included), can be a bit more forthcoming. I am not big on audiophile jargon, so I will keep this short and sweet. I started with DD, in a system which I was very familiar with. The room of course, was different. The DD struck me as near perfect. I could hear the starting and stopping on a dime, and the near perfect timing that many have associated with the DD.  It didn't take long at all for me to conclude this was not my cup of tea. It satisfied my brain, but didn't move my heart. Maybe I was used to the imperfect sound of belt drives, and it was indeed that imperfection, that made for an emotional experience. Who knows? (-: Fast forward to the belt drive.... Again, same actual arm. It sounded more analog to me. Decay was much more easy to hear, along with subtle spatial cues. Was it the less than perfect timing, that was allowing me to now hear these things I could not with the DD?  I have no clue! What I was sure about was the emotion of the music had returned.
fjn04
hiho, I´m glad that you are not only a theorist but also an experimenting scientist.
Your VHS tape drive method is brilliant. Can I try it too, I will use my Luxman DD as a motor to drive a passive platter ? And may I ask, how did you manage unite the ends of tape to make a loop, what kind of adhesive you used ?
Harold, Tape is not a new idea.  Beyond that, I know some guys who then end up coating their tape drive with talcum or other stuff, to improve its frictional contact with the platter.  I've also seen discussions of just exactly what kind of tape works best.

Hiho, Your comment on using a direct-drive turntable to drive a belt drive turntable is something I considered bringing up in this discussion.  If nothing else, it reduces belt creep.  But it also says to me that those belt drive motors with relatively small diameter pulleys, and this includes some very expensive products, are off base.  First of all, the smaller the pulley, the faster the motor has to spin, the more noise it might make as the bearings wear.  Second, the smaller pulley with the motor placed far from the platter would tend to increase belt creep. The only virtue of the small diameter pulley is that it might mask speed errors to a degree.
Harold, 
 
I'm not a scientist so whatever theory you heard from me is probably half-baked so you don't have to take me too seriously. I know I don't! :)  I'm just an experimenter whenever I have too much time on my hands. Of course you can try anything. Just don't forget to have fun! 

Few requirements necessary for dual-platter experiment: First, your active platter (DD table) must have speed adjustment or pitch control and the platter outside rim must be straight vertically, no sloped platters, in order for the tape or thread to ride on. Grooved platter is okay for thread or floss drive. If you have a sloped platter, like Technics, then you have to add a layer of platter or round disk thick enough for the tape to ride on and clamp it down. VHS is half inch tape so might be too tall so you can use you quarter inch tape from cassette or reel2reeel. If you do not have a DD table with speed adjustment, then your passive platter's diameter must match the active platter or vice versa so it's one to one ratio. 

I tried different DD turntables as driver. They include Technics SL1200Mk2 (because of sloped platter must add flat platter on top). Suspened tables with suspensions defeated SL-1300Mk2, SL-1400Mk2, SL-1500M2 and the unsuspended SL-150Mk2, SP-15, SP25. I regret not able to try SP10Mk2 even though I had two at the time. Technics without extra platter on top: SL-M2, SL-M3 and they are excellent. Also JVC QL-F6, Pioneer PL-570, PL-550. All of them have speed or pitch control. Obviously the intrinsic sound quality of the DD table will transfer into the passive platter. Compare to the DD table itself, the tape drive always sounds slightly smoother. I guess the decoupling adds a layer of filtering or damping to the rotation. Also make sure the tables are not on soft footers. Make sure the active table is seated solidly so there's no movement to affect speed stability. NO suspended tables. My favorites are JVC QL-F6 with coreless motor, super smooth and the Technics SL-M2, essentially an SL1200Mk2 with heavier platter, muscular sound. If you can find or machine a flat platter (preferably same diameter as your passive platter) to add on top for the SP-15 with a narrow plinth, it is the most versatile as it can also play 78rpm and have pitch control and doesn't take up much space. Of course I'm sure there are many other models out that I haven't tried. I know the Luxman PD-277 allows for speed adjustment but I never owned one. 

I also used two identical platters and motors gutted from two Pioneer PL-L1000 tables tape driving each other and also tried using idler wheel in between which made it an idler drive system. I should have tried wrapping one platter with a rubber band to rim drive each other! This experiment is the greatest revelation to me in terms of understanding drive system in influencing the sound. My own finding is that if all things are equal, the stylus does NOT care what is moving the platter, it can only "feel" the Torque, Compliance of the interface (belt, idler wheel, magnetism), and Motor behavior (cogging, smoothness, etc..). If those three elements are similar in different drive systems, their sound will be similar. Most tables vary so differently from each other in those 3 things that no wonder they all sound so different, not to mention dozens other sound changing things. That's why I say all three drive systems capable of making good sound so the execution and implementation are what matters. 

I splice the VHS tape diagonally, much like magnetic tape splicing, to avoid bumps. I tape them down with scotch tape first on emulsion side just to hope them, and then use super glue to glue another piece of VHS or scotch tape on the shiny side. When done, peel off the tape on the emulsion side. And the scissor off the extra on the edges. Just have to experiment few times to get to optimum result. Remember to cut diagonally.  Emulsion side or magnetic side is to face the platter, shiny side for adhesive facing out of the platter. VHS tape is designed to wrapped around a round metal drum anyway, just like a turntable platter so they work well. Other mylar tape will work too I am sure, just look online on those early Teres projects. Tension on the tape is important too but you have to play around with it to get the best result.

Happy experimenting! 
Peter, it appears your new Denon is mounted in an open frame plinth.  This seems contrary to most current designs with solid plinths of varying thicknesses.  Care to comment on why you decided to build it this way?

Lew, applying talcum to a belt drive to assist friction is a pretty old concept.  I believe AR suggested that back in the '60s, and perhaps others.
Tim, 

Yes it is a open plinth made from 1.125" hardwood, sandwiched between 2 ea 1" pieces of aluminum makes for a quite sturdy plinth. The electronics will be placed inside.  Because of the size of the DN308 this was the best solution.

As we progress more pictures will be posted.

Goof listening


Peter