2. analog
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My personal experience with Direct Drive versus Belt Drive

This is my personal , yet limited experience, with a DD versus Belt Drive. This A/B took place in the same system. with literally the same tonearm. I am choosing not to mention brands at this point. I feel by keeping the brand out of the discussion, anyone who contributes to the the thread (myself included), can be a bit more forthcoming. I am not big on audiophile jargon, so I will keep this short and sweet. I started with DD, in a system which I was very familiar with. The room of course, was different. The DD struck me as near perfect. I could hear the starting and stopping on a dime, and the near perfect timing that many have associated with the DD.  It didn't take long at all for me to conclude this was not my cup of tea. It satisfied my brain, but didn't move my heart. Maybe I was used to the imperfect sound of belt drives, and it was indeed that imperfection, that made for an emotional experience. Who knows? (-: Fast forward to the belt drive.... Again, same actual arm. It sounded more analog to me. Decay was much more easy to hear, along with subtle spatial cues. Was it the less than perfect timing, that was allowing me to now hear these things I could not with the DD?  I have no clue! What I was sure about was the emotion of the music had returned.
fjn04

Showing 8 responses by harold-not-the-barrel

harold-not-the-barrel
895 posts
 
^ Quite rightly so. And the best Rim Drives have the best of both worlds, I have heard
harold-not-the-barrel
895 posts
 
Speed stability is the number one job of a TT. For years I thought that too. But it proved to be wrong in my system(s). It´s just another theory, it´s an illusion. How the music flows is essential, and the starting point is the turntable itself. Extremely hard job to do, I have noticed over the years.
But I have made great progress.

harold-not-the-barrel
895 posts
 
Hello Tom, could you tell more about the string/tape drive motors you have experienced ?
harold-not-the-barrel
895 posts
 
^ Exactly all can sound good, it´s just a question of implementation.
lewm and hiho, with all due respect I just get the impression that you are living in a world of theories and your illusions.
My direct rim drive does the trick for me. And I will try tape/string drive some day too.
harold-not-the-barrel
895 posts
 
Lew, surely you have experienced more different kinds of turntables than I ever have. Great.
I have only a couple of each kind but they are not mediocre decks but not the ultimate models of a particular kind either. But I know exactly what a high quality belt drive/ rim drive/ direct drive is capable of. I have learnt my lesson.

hiho, exactly you are right: it´s all reality. Mine is a Salvation implementation and Vic the Designer knows exactly what a quality (direct) rim drive is all about. It´s all Vic´s idea, and with the help of him I just made my own to fit my platter. All credit is his.
Hearing, however, is another thing, maybe we hear slightly differently maybe not. Whatever the case, I like my hearing illusions, you obviously yours. Nothing new under the sun :)  
harold-not-the-barrel
895 posts
 
hiho, I´m glad that you are not only a theorist but also an experimenting scientist.
Your VHS tape drive method is brilliant. Can I try it too, I will use my Luxman DD as a motor to drive a passive platter ? And may I ask, how did you manage unite the ends of tape to make a loop, what kind of adhesive you used ?
harold-not-the-barrel
895 posts
 
Hiho !

What a blast of info, thank you. You surely are an experimenter :)
I knew audiophiles have been experimenting with strings but never though using broad VHS tape to spin a platter.
I burst out laughing imagining two platters spinning in harmony powered by an idler in between. Well, that´s the best part, doing crazy yet fundamental things when experimenting, isn´t it.
Luxman decks have straight vertical platters, so VHS tape will work just nicely.
I have never before spliced and glued VHS tape, so it would be very interesting too. Appropriate tension of tape is essential, much like the pressure of my Salvation delrin pulley on rubber belt on my platter for correct and solid speed.

Your experiments have made you understand more what these drive methods are all about in influencing on sound. " Most tables vary so differently from each other in those 3 things that no wonder they all sound so different, not to mention dozens other sound changing things. That’s why I say all three drive systems capable of making good sound so the execution and implementation are what matters." Well said.

Thanks again for your guidance

harold-not-the-barrel
895 posts
 
Tom,

Thanks for your input as well, I really appreciate.
Have you thought using lighter platters, they may very well be easier to control speed stability ? I will try one in near future.
Btw, my FFYX 12 kg platter is magnetically levitated. I highly recommend trying (this) maglev platter, it´s practically frictionless (when pulley released from contact to rubber band the platter spins five minutes after stop). And don´t be fooled by that cheap price, it´s really a high quality product from far east.

Lew, my system photos with all the info have been in public for years, I thought that was obvious. 

Happy experimenting 
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