My new B Stock speakers


I finally got off the fence and a pair of B Stock Revel M126Be speakers arrived Friday, and there was no electrical activity in the atmosphere for the first half of the day, so I put 4.5 hours on them today (Sunday).

I want them to replace a pair of nearly 30 year old B&W 805 Matrixes. I say nearly 30 years old because I only remember that I bought them some time after ’94 and sometime prior to ’98.

Walnut cabinets and their appearance and finish is truly gorgeous, but that was not a priority, and the listing at MD did not do appearance justice. I listen in the dark with my eyes closed, and my listening room is closed off (I have three sometimes rambunctious dogs) whether I am in the room or not in the room. Appearance meant/means nothing to me. Just like my vehicles.

The serial numbers are not anywhere close to each other. I assume this is why they are B Stock? Not matched? The MD sales rep on the phone just gave me some generic possibilities why they could be B Stock.

This next is on me. Whenever I see speakers at MD that interest me (and the Revels did quite some time ago) I usually send MD a question asking where they are made. It is not due to xenophobia, but I would prefer to buy a speaker manufactured in America. I am not crazy about the idea of a company outsourcing for cheaper labor. But I am not trying to start a discussion on that. For the Revels, for some reason I did not send MD a message asking them where they were made, I did a google instead, and I got the impression that they were manufactured in Ct. And, without me asking, the sales rep from MD volunteered (when he was comparing Revel sound to B&W sound) that I would be impressed by the difference between British speaker sound versus American speaker sound. But the placard on the back says they were "made in Indonesia." Okay, enough on that . . . but I was looking for an excuse to send them back within 60 days.

They are rated at a sensitivity of 86 (the reviews say "easy to drive") and nominal impedance of 8 ohms. My Cary V12 did not sound (to me) strained using 50wpc triode vs 100 wpc ultralinear. These are in a small room at nearfield..

Out of the box:

I guess I had been in denial and my old B&Ws are actually worn out &/or obsolete.

Here is something that is NOT subjective that I do not understand, and perhaps someone who is knowledgeable can explain it to me. I have several test CDs. An older one has an in phase/out of phase that is a series of three test tones and the middle tone is supposed to be quieter as it is out of phase. With my B&Ws all three tones sound the same, BUT, on Rodger and Doug’s CD, where Rodger says says verbally "in phase, sound should be centered between your two speakers/out of phase, the sound should be all over the place. . ." (that was a paraphrase) the B&Ws did exactly that. So in the 4.5 hours I put on them today (before dark clouds appeared on the horizon) , I had both of those CDs out. On the first one that all three tones sounded the same with the B&Ws, with the Revels, the out of phase tone is CLEARLY quieter! What gives? I asked either here or on AA years ago why I was hearing no difference with the B&Ws, and the consensus was don’t worry about it as long as you hear what you are supposed to on Rodger & Doug’s CD.

Okay, I am going to wrap this up because I don’t have the ear that most of you guys have (no sarcasm intended) or the vocabulary. So I don’t always know what it is that I am hearing that makes me like and dislike or thevocabulary to describe. I do know that the test tone (in pase/out of phase) is tangible. I did unhook my sub (hmmm, is it possible that this affected my test tone experiment? I just now thought of that) because I wanted to hear them standing a lone. They could definitely benefit from more bass, and I do plan on listening with the sub, but to my ears they were not absolutely pathetic. They could just use more. They are rear ported versus front ported like the B&Ws are.

What I heard, and with my ears (abused by 28 years of jet engines and shooting rivets and other loud noises) anyone would be entitled to say "confirmation bias," but:

I did say I was looking for an excuse to send them back. However, I also said that relatively shortly after feeding them musical signals, I QUICKLY came to the conclusion that they sounded better than the B&Ws.

So at the risk of using subjective cliches, the clarity (especially on percussion and the high keys of a piano) was much sharper and defined. Voices immediately sounded as if they had more "texture" (if that’s the right cliche) and inflections were more noticeable. I put on the DCC red book L. Ronstadt’s Greatest Hits Volume 2 (because the same tracks sound better than on the MFSL red book Simple Dreams, I like the DCC sound better) and I wanted to hear the opening bass track on Poor Poor Pitiful Me (I definitely like the sub turned UP for that better than no sub), but despite that, her voice is a lot more "interesting" with the Revels than with the old B&Ws. By "interesting", I mean real.

I’ll leave it at that because I am no reviewer. I don’t even pretend to be. If anyone has borne with me this long, however, I am interested in why the in phase/out of phase test tone works with the Revels but not with the B&Ws.

Oh, and associated equipment was a Maranzt SA10 (but I did not use any SACDs for those 4.5 hours) a Cary SLP05, a Cary V12 in 50 wpc triode, I cannot biwire these Revels so I only used one half of my shotgun biwire set up which was the thicker of the two Kimber blue speaker wires, but I don’t remember the numbers, and Kimber balanced (XLR vs RCA is what I mean to say) Silver Streak interconnects. On an edit I will add that the power cord for the SACDp is a newly purchased from Amazon $50 Preffair (if I spelled that correctly) and the amp and preamp still have stock cords, but Amazon tells me that two more Preffair cords will arrive on Tuesday.

I’ll now apologize for any and all typos that I don’t get edited out . . . I was a bad typist when I had two functional eyes, and now I am a REALLY BAD typist. Plus, since it was too early for me to be drinking alcohol when I was listening, I went with coffee, and that also has an effect on my typing.

 

 

immatthewj

Thanks, @james633  !  I will definitely give that a read!  I asked about positioning, I think it was on AA a year or so ago, and someone gave me a formula, and I wound up hating it and wound up where I started, but I will give this a serious read.  

I do have a M&K highpass that I bought after I bought the sub (that is going way back before the B&Ws) and I had a smaller amp back then and it helped that amp out a lot, but somehow/somewhere down the line I changed things up (bigger amps) and I started using the XLRs and my high pass has only RCAs, so I guess I quit using it then.   But I liked what I heard without it, so I stayed without it.  

I have never tried the SLP05 NOT using the balanced input tube slots, and I have some absolutely delicious sounding '55 Sylvania "Bad Boys" I only have a pair) in those slots, and I hate to NOT use them. But  I guess nothing ventured/nothing gained.  I just hate making choices though.

Thanks again for that link!  I will be seriously looking at it hopefully tomorrow!

86 Db is not sensitive at all. "Easy to drive" does not always mean sensitive. It may mean impedance is not very complex so most amplifiers will be able to handle the speaker. But amp may not have enough power for the speaker to play loud or handle transients. Sensitive I'd say, is 90 Db+

It's a great feeling when you buy a new piece of equipment and you actually like it... especially speakers. No idea why the phase difference with the test CD. Sounds like the Revel's are doing it right though. Congratulations on the new speakers. I hope they give you 30 years of enjoyment. 

I don't know about your phase question, but my advice, don't drive yourself crazy.

INVOLVING, that's my fundamental criteria (and summation of all descriptive adjectives that I, like you, avoid).

Your description indicates that you find the new Revels more Involving than your prior speakers.

DONE!

....................................

B-Stock. Hmmm, what I would want to check/know is how well the drivers are matched/balanced, from low frequencies up to high frequencies, midrange the most important. I'd like to know even if they were not B-stock.

Assuming you know your listening space, and have found the positions they sound best (not necessarily same location as the B&W). Remember, front ports/rear ports are very different.

Definitely no sub for this evaluation. I would also stuff the ports for listening to the drivers without the port sounds.

Female Voices (Linda Ronstadt a perfect voice for this), I also use Cassandra Wilson, Annie Lennox, a few others): you do not want some frequencies stronger on one side than the other. You don't want the imaging to wander l or r as their voices go thru a range of frequencies.

Listen, no obvious wander, DONE.

..............................

IF a problem, if you notice l/c/r wander more than a few times, IOW, the singer is not moving about on stage) what to do?

1st document each speaker's individual driver's output using tools, not ears. Ears will always be final.

a. Inexpensive SPL Meter, Tripod, Listening Location, Seated Ear Height

Meter needs hole for tripod screw

Doesn't have to be precise or even calibrated, it will show you relative volume changes for any frequencies you compare.

b. TEST CD (not lp) with individual frequencies, this one, tracks 9-38 (29 1/3 octave frequencies)

amazing bytes test cd:

Make a chart, record left speaker results, right speaker results. Don't look for perfection, just find anything more than a little different.

Important: Is the difference the speakers???

Switch speaker wires at amp end. Repeat, differences the same, then it is not anything else in the chain, thus the speakers.

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How to solve it?

IF you have meaningful differences, come back, let us know, experienced suggestions will follow.

 

86 Db is not sensitive at all.

@mikhailark  , I realize that.  That was why after I typed the rating for sensitivity I then typed that the reviews I read called the speaker an easy load to drive.  I had my reservations about a sensitivity rating of 86.  But they are nearfield in a small room and my B&Ws are 87 and I could get those speakers rocking out in 50 wpc triode.  Some time ago I posted a question about a pair of Harbeths I had seen listed that I was interested in that were rated at (I think) 85 or 86 and were described as an easy load to drive, and I inquired about that here.  The relationship between nominal impedance and sensitivity was explained to me, but electrical theory usually goes over my head.  They sound good so far.

@mattw73 

It's a great feeling when you buy a new piece of equipment and you actually like it... especially speakers. 

I was actually putting off my first audition as I thought I was going to be disappointed!  I am wondering if unhooking my sub may have effected the in phase/out of phase test tone?