My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

daveyf

My pleasure.   Happy Listening!

The all new Sound Performance Labs Performer S1200 stereo amp $7500 USA reviewed in Stereo Times could be the New King of Amps ?.. 😉

http://www.v2.stereotimes.com

Constellation pictor preamp is sounding impressive with the boulder 3060. I gotta do a video of the 3 preamps i have here. 

Tomorrow: find out which rooms i didn't like and what are the honorable affordable mentions of the show!

i would like a review on creeks VOYAGER please        creek audio

Nothing impressed me or better said - IMPACTED ME MORE at the 2022 AXPONA than his story. This was a very special moment that I want to share with you.

Good for you Jay...we all work hard and every once in a while we are reminded that what we do makes a difference to other people. This one is a home run for you. Congrats?     

That's awesome WC!   Looks like you got so much more from the show than OCD Mikey, who seems burnt out on shows (he even has a video explaining about that).  I'm betting there are many others who find that your content is a great outlet from every day life.  

Dave

@thezaks 

@gtaphile 

Thank you for your comments above. I appreciate you both. 

Did i Blow Up My $80,000 Speaker?

More great test tracks for Bass.

Fat Freddy's Drop-The Camel (This one will test how low they can go too)

Fat Freddy's Drop- Big BW

Fat Freddy's Drop-Shiverman

Boozoo Bajou- Same Sun

HNNY- Cheer Up My Brother

Fat Freddy's Drop- Del Fuego

I'll check them out!

Part 1:

Some brands that needed to be called out!

Hi all, long time lurker wanting some help in finding the ultimate multi channel channel HT amp that is almost as good at stereo as the top amps you’ve listed from Pass labs etc.

I thought about buying a seperate stereo amp or integrated, however due to lack of space and the Mrs, I have to stick to multichannel.

Are there any better than:

Krell Chorus 7200 XD

Classe Delta Series (New)

Mcintosh

Legacy Audio i-V7

NAD M28

At the moment I have the EAD Power Master 8300 which I love but seeing if the tech has advanced considerably since its release.

On paper spec wise the EAD still seems to outdo all these latest options. I know the specs aren’t the be all and end all, hence why I need some help in figuring all this out. People have also said its better than Pass Lab and Krell amps in their experience.

I have attached the details of the EAD for you guys to compare spec and also the reviews for it from back in the day.

Your support is appreciated.

http://www.nobleelectronics.net/nob10.html

http://www.audioreview.com/product/amplification/amplifiers/enlightened-audio-designs/power-master-2000.html

Dynamic Power Steering: Because of the circuitry’s very low inter-channel cross talk, an extremely large power supply, including a 2000 VA Plitron transformer, with nearly 1/2 million microfarads of capacitance provides a huge reservoir of power, which can be tapped by any or all channels on an as-needed basis.

Alternatively I could add a 3 channel amp which performs as good as the top stereo amps but with just one extra channel included. I feel as most of a movie soundtrack comes from the centre channel, so don't want to disregard that channel in pursuit of a top stereo amp, as then it will have little impact on movie soundtracks. Something like Krell 403e or Mark Levinson M533h come to mind. Very few available out there. Unless you guys can guide me to my best option.

I am sad to announce that Vladimir Lamm has pass away. 

Very sad news folks and he will be dearly missed. Too bad i didn't get to try Lamm amplifiers. My condolences to his family. 

So sorry to hear about Vladimir Lamm passing.  He was a true pioneer in the field of audio.

@abizzle55,

Classe made some great multi channel amps that can be found on the used market.  I had a CA 5100 and loved it.  However I believe the (new) Delta series consists of a preamp, a stereo amp or mono amps.....no multichannel.

Abizzle55- of all the things you listed I’d pick the McIntosh MX 170 or 180 for a processor. My favorite for HT,  very natural.  Feel free to contact me for further discussion since this is mainly a two channel thread. 

Bascom H King also, reportedly.  Two good designers gone.

Wow i didn't know this... We are losing many great minds but unfortunately it's part of life. The issue i see is that some brands don't have a succession plan. Once the lead designer is gone, the brand goes too and that unfortunately murders the resale value. I really commend Wilson Audio for having a plan in place. Daryl has my respect for doing what he's doing. 

@carey1110 ​​​​​​

Thanks for your response. I already have an Acurus Act 4 which is on par with Mx170 so am looking for a better PA.

This forum started as an amplifier comparison and review thread. Some of the early amplifiers reviewed by whitecross were multichannel PA, like the Krell and Plinius Odeon. After many years though, I was hoping there were some new multichannel PA’s available and with lack of availability here in the UK, was hoping some of the users on this thread can provide their opinions and experience of some of the newer PA’s which with the latest technology and advancement must have reached a similar sound quality as some of the best A/B class stereo amps from the yesteryears but across all channels.

However the more I look into it, to get the best sound quality it is looking more likely to get a stereo amp for the fronts, but with the centre channel being the most important, I wanted the same quality feeding that as well.

Therefore my choice has really been narrowed down to a handful of 3 channel amps, which I’m hoping are based on their best stereo amp but with an extra channel. Rather than a watered down version of their multi channel amp.

Or a top stereo amp with a matching monoblock for the centre from the same manufacturer. Some of these class D amps are now starting to look like serious contenders as well. 

Guys, if you can help me with this, I would appreciate it a lot. The ecamples above were just some I was looking at. Thanks

@ron17 ​​​​​​

In regards to the Classe amps, you are right, the new delta series are limited to stereo only, no multichannel. Which is a shame as they’ve got some rave reviews. I’ve always had a soft spot for them. I’ve got my beady eyes on a used pair of CA-M600 monoblocks at £7k ($8.5k). A bit over my budget of £5k ($6k). If I can get them for £5k I may reconsider. Also will leave the system incomplete as the centre channel will need a solution as well on top of that.

@abizzle55,

I would look for a Classe CA-5200 or 5300.  Either one of those multi channel amps would be great for your front two stereo speakers, center channel and surrounds.  Really good value, one box and they sound fantastic.  Good luck to you.

"Wow i didn’t know this... We are losing many great minds but unfortunately it’s part of life. The issue i see is that some brands don’t have a succession plan. Once the lead designer is gone, the brand goes too and that unfortunately murders the resale value. I really commend Wilson Audio for having a plan in place. Daryl has my respect for doing what he’s doing."

Jay, It’s one of the reasons I like Mcintosh. The brand isn’t, now, tied to some kind of designer dynasty. Yeah, It’s great when the king has a prince but often they don’t. Who designed the MC611? I don't even know. No matter how good the designs after the king is gone, you have to deal with the audiophile stereotypes. It was a great company until they lost(________). Which I don’t be believe is true. There are few people that are irreplaceable, some would say all people are.

Classe is another example of where the brand is larger than the designer. I look for this. It's hard to find the middle ground where the designs are great but not tied to one person. 

@bulldogger 

I get it. You are correct. 

@ron17 

Will those older Classe amps be any better than my EAD Power master 8300? Not sure they would be. Read the reviews link I posted to get an idea of what I mean. 

What I'm looking for is a significant jump up in sound quality from multichannel amps. So looks like it'll probably have to be 3x monoblocks or a 3 channel PA. 

Hence I posted here hoping there is a 3 channel amp that is as good as their stereo offering. 

Anyone? 

Mark Levinson 533h for your fronts and center and mark Levinson 535h for the rest and you're done. 

Thanks @jays_audio_lab , much appreciated.

Just one thing, you mentioned the bass is a bit light on the Mark Levinson 533h. If you were to give the Pass Labs/JC1 a 90-100% for bass, then what score would you give the ML 533h?

Can this be overcome with a pair of high performing subs (2x Monoprice Monolith 13" THX), EQ correction and room gain? Room is 21x12x8 ft.

Also in your original post you went on to say the Plinius Odeon 7 was the best HT amp you heard. So a bit confused with your recommendation. Am I missing something? There's one used example available. Would the ML combo outdo the Plinius one box solution? 

abizzle55,

I've had a few multi channel amps, including an upgraded Plinius Odeon, and I am truly happy with my Krell XD multi channel amplifier. 

Dave

@thezaks ​​​​​​

Hi Dave, thanks for your input. Could you please tell me a bit more about the differences between the Plinius Odeon and the Krell Xd. Was it a Chorus or Theatre XD? Thanks

@abizzle55 

I have the Theater 7 XD.   Even though it's ony 100 Watts and my speakers are 85-86db efficiency, it's plenty of power.     The Odeon was a mess.  Sounded thin and had functional issues.   They don't make them any more, so support is iffy.   I don't want to go too deep into my experience here - no need to throw anyone under the bus. 

Dave

Interesting. As whitecamacross said the Plinius was an awesome amp. Maybe the upgrade to ultimate messed it up, with the new components installed. Changed the sound signature or maybe needed running in again. 

Looks like the Krell is a good choice as whitecamacross also praised it.

You could be right about the upgrade to the Plinius.    Definitely not break in though, because I had the amp for almost a year.  

Dave

Oh oh...digital is getting better. 

They should give you one of these if you already bought the Select II........Any one know the pricing?.....the Select Digital Director is......let me guess.....$30K?...too low of a guess?.....Whatever it costs....I have to have one to go with my modded $400 SMSL DAC......ya baby! Jay just ordered one now.....you bet.

Actually, it probably is a noticeable upgrade......digital does indeed keep getting better......but at these prices....you can hire a band to play.

Daryl

I am live!

@abizzle55  The Krell amps are good. I have a Chorus 5200 XD. and the 300 Duo XD. The new Krell amps have an ethernet connection. I have used this to mute all but two channels of the Chorus 5200 XD. It makes it sound like a stereo amp. It's cleaner with the other channels muted for stereo. I have used my Iphone to access the webpage of the amp where you can turn the amp on and mute the channels. Multi-channel amps don't sound as good as stereo amps. The Krell and another amp I owned a California Audio Labs MCA 2500 are the only two amps that I know of that can do this. Both sound like stereo amps with the other channels muted. I have not tried this with the Chorus 7200.

Hi @jays_audio_lab , have you compared your Focal Maestro with the Wilson Alexx (or Alexia 2) already? I remember that you mentioned you would cover this comparison in a future thread/video. Thanks!

@bulldogger 

Thanks for that input. 🙂

That's really interesting. I've read of amps distributing power to the channels on a when needed basis, but to turn off the channels all together is a great function. Wonder if their are any other multichannel amps that have this function?

This also means I have the option to go with either the Krell 5200 or the 7200, knowing that function is available. Whichever turns up.

I was hoping with advancement in technology would close the gap between multichannel and stereo amps.

Can you explain a bit what the differences in sound is when you run all channels vs shutting down and running only stereo?

Also, as Krell is an American brand, it is very difficult for me to get hold of a used example here in the UK. I wouldn't mind ordering from the states, but most of the amps are running on 120v whilst we run on 220-240v.

That's a good question, are there any multichannel amps that run a universal voltage (110-240v)? Could be a great addition to this forums list of amps.

@logydoghan 

I have not compared them directly so I can only go by memory. Anyone who is dismissing Focal Maestros for Wilson Alexia is probably not in their right mind. 

You all know I like Wilson, but Focal Maestro EVO has completely blown me away on all counts: Clarity, detail, huge soundstage, deep bass and looks. 

My wife continues to say that FOCAL is the most gorgeous speaker I have had in here (she is a graphic designer) and actually 3 of her friends echoed the same thing. Europeans just know how to make things pretty and America is so far behind that it is not even funny. 

Yes, I agree. If Wilson doesn't sound that good, no one would bring those pairs of old-fashioned-looking robots to their home lol. It might be worth discussing the pricing strategy of the loudspeakers companies. What are the differences between a $10000, $30000, $50000, and $100000 pair of speakers? The same goes for the amps, preamps, and DACs. Just some interesting topics people may be interested in.

@abizzle55 I only know of two multi-channel amps that can mute channels. The California Audio Labs design, a 20 year old amp, still is the most advanced one I have used.. It had bias tracking before bias tracking transistors existed. It had ability the ability to control with RS232 or command from the processor when it switched from class A to Class A/B. 

One of the reasons I bought the Krell was because of the webpage and the options to mute the channels. It also can notify Krell and you if there are malfunctions with the amplifier. I was tried of "dumb" amplifiers. 

I find that when you run all of the channels the sound is sort of diffuse and lacks the clarity of a two channel amp. You can still hear the sound quality of the amplifier but it just can not match the clarity and detail of a two channel amp. With the Chorus, when I mute the channels, all of the diffuse sound goes away.  I am guessing the extra channels add noise. I believe most multichannel amps measure worse with all of the channels running at same time.

I would assume this is true of the Chorus 7200, that you can get better stereo with muted channels, but I do not have any first hand experience with the amp. They may be wired the same as the 5200 or may not be. With the Chorus 5200 there are I think two transforms. It may be wired so that with the channels are muted, the stereo channels are on one transformer and the other three channels are on the other transformer. That's the way the California Audio Labs was wired. With the Chorus 7200, you may have three channel on one transformer and four on the other transformer. I do not know but if that is the case,  you would always have three channels on a single transformer. You might not get the same effect as the Chorus 5200 if it has only two channels on one transformer with the others muted.

Man, I think a few folks have already mentioned - this is a primarily a two channel thread for over 5 year now going on 6. Many folks Ron17 and Zaks to name 2 have been really helpful already.

I absolutely wish you the best on your multi channel journey, but meanwhile Jay is pushing the envelope and expanding his sphere of influence in two channel, system setup and of course his youtube presence. It seems like your inquiry would be best suited for a private consult with Jay should he accept at this point. Or perhaps start new multi channel inquiry on Agon to tap the full knowledge base on this forum that may not follow this particular thread.

We still have some momentum here, albeit waning. We are losing regular contributors seemingly left and right. All the while, there is so much excitement, agitation and change happening whether on this forum, wbf, axpona, munich or future aspiring youtubers, all of which jay is talking about and could tilt the trajectory of future hi-end audio. Let’s keep the conversation going here on Jay’s journey and I still hold out the hope that this long thread doesn’t fizzle out and dry up, but I understand that could be its ultimate future. Ha, in denial. But I appreciate Jay keeping an eye on this thread still and posting. Especially as Mikey can opine for himself on other forums like WBF, whereas Jay cannot, for no reason that has ever been publicly articulated. Forums still matter in our sliver of universe.