My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
WC, thanks for your response, I THINK what I'm reading in your take of my mentioning, is aligning with what I had to say. I'm NOT speaking from theory - at all - but from my very own listening experience, with my own equipment. I agree that this still seems the current status regarding DAC direct, yet things can or may change, "Nix is fix". Ever, eh? Interesting also for me to learn, that some of your thread's followers in deed are running MBL Biegewandler, and do have positive experience with the use of alternative power-amp sources, to those monsterous MBL mono-block :). M. 🇿🇦 |
@viber6 - what amps and preamps have you actually owned? Because I'm not hearing (m)any. I've owned a Bryston 4BSST. I've owned 20 other amps in the past 10 years, tube, SS, class A, class AB, SET, PP, etc. I don't rely on reviews to tell me what to think (nor does WCSS). In fact my Ampzilla 2000 2nd editions just beat the Luxman 900u, Pass X350.8, Rowland 625s2, and others on my YG speakers. Those Benchmarks you suggest are re-sold by everyone I know- just like their Dac was 10 years ago when it was hot, but dead/flat sounding. Your way isn't the highway here, despite your continued pressing on WCSS and others as to what is "neutral." Most of those awful SS amps have high order distortion that isn't "neutral." A coloration of a different kind. Nelson Pass has an excellent white paper on the subject that folks like you love to ignore. So forgive me if belittling others liking "euphony" doesn't sway us who have real experience. |
Jay, Your Alexia 2 speakers are one of the best, but all speakers, including mine, have much more distortion and coloration than even midlevel electronics. Many flawed speakers are still good enough to tell lots of differences between electronics and cables, but confusion about which electronics sound more real is largely due to the large deviations of all speakers from reality. A lot of this discussion is akin to debating which lipstick looks better on a pig (the speaker). This is a meaningless discussion from all sides. Kren0006 is correct in saying listening is more important than discussion (to paraphrase). Spend a little money (less than $3K for the Benchmark LA4), and then tell us objectively what you hear. You've spent more than that on shipping costs, and gas and wear/tear on your car traveling to pick up heavy amps and such. Your net loss after selling it will be maybe $1K, but maybe you will be surprised at how good it is, so you can recommend it to high performance/dollar clients. I say again that my Mytek Brooklyn AMP+ beat the other much more expensive class D amps I heard at home for focus, clarity, neutrality. If you doubt my honesty about the Mytek or others' honesty about what they heard with the Benchmark LA4, you can spend a little money to prove your assertions that cheap things cannot possibly compete with expensive things. Don't say that WE should spend the money for what we already know. |
keithr, I tried Bryston models 4B (original from 1978), 4B ST, 4B SST2, 3B SST. They were all vastly inferior to my 2.5B SST2 for clarity, snap, etc. "Real experience?" Tell me what your musical background is. What is your listening experience, and are you a master in playing any natural, unamplified instrument, playing with various ensembles publicly and privately in many countries, participating in master classes over many decades? Aside from quoting distortion measurements, what qualifies you to judge what is neutral, natural? How much classical music do you know? This music is so complex that clarity/detail is top priority. |
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Viber If your main thing is the violin and classical music than I get it. Your selection of components does the trick for you. That said, I can probably assume (hopefully I'm not wrong) that most of us here aren't strictly classical music fanatics or violin lovers. I could not buy all the gear I have today just to hear a violin. I understand why you won't spend more money on electronics if your main thing is classical and violins. I also could not buy an expensive dodge viper acr if I have to drive it at 40 mph everyday and can't race it. Why spend so much money if I can't really use all of its potential? Hell I would do what you do: Buy more reasonably priced components since you're not really going to be doing more than the 2 dimensions of music genres you are mainly drawn to. |
Viber, you suddenly sound like tecno. I still have never heard Jay say you had to spend what he spends to get great sound, in fact just the opposite. Why the “ challenges” to “prove” something. Only three people I’ve seen now that you’re mentioning it seem to be intrested. Two do it just to annoy. I think you truly believe the Benchmark might actually equal the Mephisto. I’d suggest quit trying so hard to coerce him to prove things to satisfy a small number of people. He’s doing what he wants, not taking requests. The requests would never end if he tried. If you’re so truly interested in this comparison, buy one( maybe even buy one used on Audiogon to save a bit) ship it to him to see. If you end you hearing what you like, then when you get it back you can replace what you currently have In your system. The other problem I can foresee, if it dosnt sound so great, then will come the request to change some of the other equipment, for better synergy, as something will be deemed inadequate with those components. |
Viber Why don't you buy the benchmark? Then send to me ? You seem to be the most interested in affordable gear that performs in a big way. I don't have any interest in benchmark. Not for any particular reason other than I'm walking my own path and my path doesn't have benchmark written on it. However, if you send it to me then I'll go ahead and evaluate it. Benchmark seems to be more up your alley than mine if you really think about it. |
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Jay, I would be happy to recommend classical music that is not violin-centric, and which has a variety of instruments of all dynamics and freq ranges, with ensembles, large and small. The problem is that without a reference of live unamplified music, any assertions of what is neutral or natural are questionable. Most followers here have little exposure or listening experience to natural instruments to appreciate this. Instead of accusing and ratting against me, they would do better by opening their minds. Classical music has a much larger range of sounds and sound spaces than any music you have presented. I have listened to many varieties of music with an open mind and ear, but classical needs more time to appreciate, and the rewards are worth the time needed to understand it. It takes more time to learn to be a pilot than to drive a car, but the rewards are greater. For readers with impaired reading comprehension, I know what Benchmark sounds like because I heard it for over 1 month, and I know that it outperforms most electronics at much higher prices. Many other educated listeners have noted the same. So if you want to open your mind to what it offers, you can spend the money. But if you feel that Benchmark is not your thing, without hearing it, that shows that you are mainly following your pre-conceived agenda. Perhaps Boulder amps will be found to be somewhat euphonic compared to the Mephisto. You don't know until you listen. There is a reasonable possibility that the Benchmark has more clarity and neutrality than the Boulder, but you won't know it until you listen. |
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viber I have a better idea....at zero cost to you. Why don't you choose a piece of music that you think would best represent your system and record it with your phone, the same way Jay has been doing for months. Then send it to him so he can play it on his youtube channel for all of us to see and hear. We would not only get a taste of the music you think should be used to evaluate gear but also we would finally be able to see your system, the way you've set it up and the neutrality of it.....Maybe then we would better understand your point of view. |
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+++ron17, assuming that Jay and viber are good with it that is a brilliant idea. While we have read hundreds (ok, over a thousand) posts of how good v's system sounds, we can listen for ourselves. Heck, he can even record himself playing the violin and then play it over his system so we can hear how the "real" unamplified instrument sounds compared to it being played on his system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uv1PxInJnY |
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Great idea Ron. I have doubts it will happen, but it would be very easy to do. I suppose that if his system doesn’t come out on top, then maybe it’s our lack of sophistication and appreciation for his specific music and listening preferences, but I think I can live with that stigma, lol. I’m assuming it will sound great, just don’t see how it could compare to jays system, but the ears don’t lie. What I don’t understand if the benchmark is really all that he believes it is, and with its price point, why isn’t that product already a part of his system. What am I missing? |
Hey guys, would it be possible to have constructive discussions about audio without this constant bashing, arrogant observations (mostly about Viber who's acting as a true gentleman in the circumstances) and similar posts that not only lead nowhere but give the impression of children in the school's backyard? Come on guys, this thread used to be interesting and informative but now more than 50% of the posts are to denigrate another poster and/or his opinion. What's this? The same people who came to WC's defense and said he should not be told what to do or what do buy are now telling Viber and others exactly the contrary. I don't know Viber and maybe sometimes his posts are long and repetitive but he's sticking to the subject i.e. audio and often makes good points like others here. I'm pretty sure his messages are more appreciated by the silent readers of this thread like me than the constant posts bashing him or other posters who may think differently or express an opinion that is diverging from the mainstream. Those people/posts ARE derailing this thread. Thanks in advance |
@rbach I wasn't thinking about him honestly. But yes from time to time his reaction has been very similar to posts he complained about (for good reasons) and when I read those 2 last posts it's hard to not see a negative contribution -unfortunately- but I'll let people judge. Look, my post was not about shooting people personally. This is an audio forum and it is used to discuss. As long as we stay on topic, diversity in opinions and observations should be welcome and appreciated. As an example, a few people mentioned that classical music is a good way to test a sound system irrespective of your taste in music. I find that opinion interesting on this thread (and agree with it) because it's been running for what 4 years and classical music was never used as a way to evaluate all these components. It's not WC's cup of tea I get that but still it would be fun to test a few tracks with this super system to see how that goes. I mean I'm sure that would benefit a lot of people reading that thread. People suggesting this are not asking the OP to buy a very expensive component just to do that kind of test so why not? It's WC's prerogative to accept or refuse but that does not mean the request/proposal is stupid or inappropriate. I don't understand why people are turned down and asked to stop reading or leave the discussion if they're not happy. See my point? Otherwise there's no point in starting/reading/contributing to a discussion. Youtube is probably a better medium if the only thing you want is show off your gear but I do believe that WC has decided to start a thread on Audigon to share ideas and get ideas in return. Unless I'm mistaken. |
Guyl, you must not have bothered to read vibers posts basically doing exactly what tecno was, calling him out to do what he wants because he’s afraid of the results? That’s rather childish I thought when tecno did it. I see people giving options on how to resolve that without asking someone to spend their money on something that dosnt fall into the realm of what’s he’s doing. No one here is at anyone’s else’s beck and call to provide the show they want to see and spend their money to make it happen. It’s one thing when people suggest products, ask about those products, have discussions about those products. What anyone decides to spend money and time on is their business. That’s not what has been happening in this case, but despite that, a truly viable option has been suggested that should logically answer the question for those who have doubts about the outcome. And maybe even possibly surprise many others with the outcome. And jay has made it clear that he’d be willing to incorporate that into a video if it works out. Many others here have expressed views different that the op, but don’t keep putting their personal preferences out there as if they’re the one true way of purity. Most of us realize that we all have different preferences and that different products may work better in some ways for those preferences. I’ve mentioned a few of mine over time, but feel no need to beat everyone over the head with every post about them. What I like dosnt work for everyone, and I’m just as intrested in what others like and why. |
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speedbump6, When you get the Tektons, I'll be interested in your observations about them, and how they compare to your Wilson. If you don't feel like proving your claims with videos in the same room, which may be logistically difficult, I'll respect what you say, and take your word for it. You probably have better things to do with your time, like me. |
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Viber, I wouldn’t even know how to post a YouTube video, lol. I’d have to figure that out, and knowing myself, would entail purchasing some higher end equipment to record with. With what’s going on in my biz, I wouldn’t have the time at this point to do that, but I think might be fun to if when I do have the time. But I’ll be happy to give my opinion of the moabs when they show up, at the this point at least im hoping they’ll still show up. |
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@speedbump6 Thank you for your explanation. I do see the nuance. Going back on the thread I think what is bothering is how some people (over)react when someone comes here with a different speech or proposes something. I chose Viber as an example only, again nothing personal. If you don't like someone else's contribution to this thread then you can always skip their messages. Techno's messages were clearly attempting to disturb WC but even though I didn't appreciate them the 23 following replies each time he was posting to tell him to shut up were even worse. @WC I get what you are trying to do. One explanation for what is happening here is this thread has fundamentally changed over time. Initially, most people following your journey could relate to your observations and experimentations since they had similar gear in their own systems. Now that you've reached this stratospheric cost level, it's much more difficult for these people to continue contributing to the discussion when they are explicitly told that they cannot comment/compare if they do not have first hand experience with the -expensive- gear. That's just my observation. @kren0006 Is it really necessary to add another layer of sarcasm? This is what I was talking about. Comments like these add no value at all. |
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@jetter No I have no such pretention. However, you and a few of your friends are just confirming what I was talking about. I'm sure many people following this thread think like me.
Anyway, that seems to be hopeless
I do not post much, as I prefer quality of quantity (little hint here). It has been interesting for a while but time for me to move on. Cheers. |
Alright gentlemen, Let’s shift gears, shall we??? Tomorrow’s video will display the magnepan 20.7 being powered by Gryphon Mephisto and Pandora. This will be the first time a Gryphon Mephisto has been used to power a Maggie. We did this with the Gryphon Coloseum a few months ago so let’s see how the Mephisto does. I also had a manufacturer show up this weekend to let me borrow the TROY ground conditioner. Thanks to TRIPOINT for letting me try this new product. I posted a picture of it on YouTube. If you follow me, you should have seen the post (not a video) of the TROY ground conditioner next to the Mephisto. My thoughts on this device will soon follow. Last but not least, the time has come...next week, I will unveil the newest component of the family. It is the biggest investment I have EVER. I’ve never owned a component of this caliber and I am extremely excited to take you all for a ride. Next will will be EPIC. |
Right, likely replacing Alexia 2, I’d guess. He said it’s his biggest investment ever, which I’m guessing means it eclipses he Neolith purchase, and he is already pretty far out on the diving board now with the Mephisto and Boulder pre, so I doubt he is bringing in a six figure amp or preamp. Smart money on new speakers, but obviously just a guess. Reason I’m guessing Magico or Focal is that he referenced Be tweeters recently, and kind of surprisingly included Focal in with a group of brands that are generally considered more elite than Focal. Best case IMO would be Alexx or even higher up the Wilson tree. There have been some of the bigger boys for sale lately on A’gon. Not optimistic that beryllium tweeters and Mephisto would be great match, but we'll see I guess..... |
