My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
This just gets even better. There's now a bias now towards folks who are newer or mostly post in one thread? What does that have to do with anything? This personal stuff just continues... Rather than taking posts with a grain of salt, it would be cool if you could take the post for what it says.
The folks on this thread are certainly entertaining. Instead of just discussing equipment and keeping it to that, we keep getting back on the personal side and are now laying out some conspiracy theories for who this person really is. I kind of thought our speculation should be with equipment and/or listening tastes on this thread, but I guess not. At least viber6 keeps the discussion to equipment and listening preferences - I give him credit for that.
One more thought - this is a public forum, managed by Audiogon. If viber6 is so out of control that it’s bothering the OP to no end and everyone else too (and requests to tone it down are not working), then it should be very simple to contact a moderator with Audiogon and get something done. However, if the moderator finds that viber6 is within the rules and spirit of the forum, then he should be able to continue and the negative comments should stop. At that point, just scroll and don’t respond, if it’s not to your liking, but is approved by the Audiogon folks. This would be a better method of handling things, rather than posting and making personal jabs at the guy. Last I checked, I don’t believe bullying is in the spirit of the forum either.
Dave This has been going on a long time. I believe there's a fine line between occasionally mentioning the OP try a new component or speaker or offering advice on a component he's personally familiar with...and...constantly telling him and others what they should do or hear or what the OP should try or buy next. As far as 'working with him', the OP has repeatedly had to tell him to back off and that if he doesn't like the way it's being done to kindly find or start another thread. It's unfortunate that a few posters have gotten rough and said things they shouldn't have but I think that was done out of frustration. The OP has had to continually remind him that it's his thread and he will do it the way he wants. I don't have ill feelings toward viber but I do think if he posted less and stopped pushing his views on everybody he would be way more respected on this thread.....there, that's me working with him.
WCSS I think a part time consulting gig is a great idea. I have benefited many times from your advice and trial and error method. You helped me decide on my last 2 amps and were spot on with your recommendations. Getting advice from an experienced hands on audiophile without an agenda makes total sense.
kren0006, It's all about context, and within the context of what I mentioned, I don't believe it missed the mark at all. The context was - "...others that make recommendations too and state what they prefer for their sound and/or evaluation preferences...".
Regarding viber6, if he's wrong, let's work with him on this and explain why. From what I see, he's using WC's comments as input, applying logic and intelligence, and questioning and commenting and speculating from there. Seems to me he is willing to respond to intelligent discussion, which would probably yield better results than the other routes folks have taken. And, nothing wrong with suggesting another speaker or amp, etc, as many others have also done that throughout the entire thread. We can suggest all we want, but in the end, it's up to WC and what he wants to try. Dave
thezaks, The difference between me and Viber is that I never (or at least try hard to never) tell WC (or anyone else) how he should "think" or try to imply he is wrong in his assessments. Viber does this all the time. I simply state what I like and why, which is exactly what WC has asked us to do.
More than that, Viber will not accept that any audio view other than his is correct. I am happily willing to accept that everyone hears differently and prefers different presentations -- what works for some won’t work for others. A view which almost everyone shares. And I never claim to be an expert, something Viber does all the time also.
So with all due respect I think comparing me to him as you did misses the mark a bit.
If Viber makes a preponderous statement, I’ll point it out. But no personal animosity. It’s an audio forum, nothing more.
kps that was an awesome post, agree! Well except for the last sentence. Just kidding. Viber is fine but couldn't have said it any better that he has highly unusual preference for audio presentation and therefore makes his recommendations somewhat useless, as you say.
Loved the sound of the Colloseum with DAWs but the PC tower look dunno if I could handle that. But that would probably be an end-game combo for me at some point in a small-mid listening room.
Can you tell any difference in the AQ cable risers versus those ceramic-looking curling stone white ones you had a few months ago?
Love your post kps25sc! I do find that viber6 is utilizing WC's comments on gear as part of his logic for what he recommends. True, he has that tilt towards high frequencies and apparent transparency, which can influence his recommendations. However, there are others that make recommendations too and state what they prefer for their sound and/or evaluation preferences - kren0006 on this page, for example. I think it's just part of what makes up a forum and I think if there's disagreement, then it's best to address/question their equipment recommendations/comments, rather than choosing other methods. Dave
@kren. i know you like the Colosseum :) . It is cool and i know you are not here to try to change anyone. We are all grown men, we like what we like. I love having the opportunity to do this and to be able to show differences between amps, speakers, preamps. This is also valuable for many of you and i am sure you guys have some of "Jay’s OCD" deep inside :) I am trying to "slow down" a little more with equipment changes and trying to pay a little more attention to things. i am not there YET with fuses, wrapping heat-sinks with aluminum foil, etc. I would love to do it all, but time is of the essence and i think showing the differences in equipment at a high level is more valuable for many of you. I am not saying doing the smaller tweaks is not important. I actually now believe in stands when before i was not quite 100% sure of it so as you can see i am slowly changing my "old ways". I am hungrier than ever to learn more and compare more here, IN MY HOME and as soon as this pandemic is over, i will make a huge effort to go to shows more often and hopefully meet and greet many more of you. Just don’t ask me the raw truth about certain things because i don’t want to make you upset lol. I appreciate what you all do here day in day out while you are hiding at work to respond here, making your wife mad because you are posting on jay's thread and not listening to her (yes i have been there), but hopefully you all ARE NOT posting while driving!
viber6 I have made no claim about the quality of your speakers, i have never heard them, i have wondered about your previous statements about not utilizing the bass panel part of the speakers, please explain your reasons. That your amplifier is low priced is probably not up for debate. As for using a Rane pro equalizer as a preamp and to boost HF for better “clarity “ in a high-end system i must admit that we probably divert in perception of what is transparency and clarity. I have owned and used a number of Rane products in commercial studios and as good as they are for studio use, transparency in the treble range are not their strongest assets. You seem to have a extreme focus on boosting the treble and upper midrange area, with little concern of a full frequency presentation, you almost seem to be a little afraid of bass frequency’s. I don’t know if this is conditioning from all your fiddling or for other reasons. What you call “clarity” could by many be conceived as elevated brightness, if this is your preference it is as valid as others like of softer more midrange focused presentations. But when you constantly judge Jay’s findings and classifications from your own unusual baseline it is somewhat useless. You have to understand that he prefers a fuller more balanced presentation, and owns and uses one of the most varied collection of equipment i have ever seen, you are not going to change what he likes, and no amount of rewriting his lists or reviews will make your preference his preference. For the record, i have enjoyed many of your often excellent posts, and think you are one of the reasons this thread is entertaining.
WC, maybe hook up the cheap HT subs with the Mags to give them a fighting chance across a full-range spectrum vs the ML?? They’re sitting right there! Would still love to hear Mag v ML straight up without subs -- that’s more important of course -- but maybe at end just give it a go with the subs???
I know you aren't interested in subs too much at this level but if you want appeal to greater masses of viewers, might be worth going that extra length
You wrote, "You use 40 year old electrostatic speakers where only the high-frequency panels are active, if this is by choice or because of malfunction, you haven’t shared. Driven by a mid-fi low cost amp, connected with zip -cords, with a Rane pro audio equalizer as preamp."
So you initially accused me of taking a writer's word as gospel about how great OB speakers are, without hearing them myself. Ignoring your mocking tone, that is still a reasonable criticism. But then in the above quote, you make totally outrageous claims that my reference components are mediocre, based only upon industry myths that cheap things can't be great. Worse, you make those statements without hearing them yourself.
First, you don't know anything about my Audiostatic 240 speakers--you have never seen or heard them. I have been listening to today's top electrostatics, and I haven't found any of them to equal the transparency of mine. Second, my low cost Mytek Brooklyn amp beats the much more expensive Merrill Veritas and 114 amps for clarity and neutrality. I have heard the comparisons at home--you have not. Third, zip cord beats many of the audiophile speaker cables for clarity and focus. Have you tried zip, or maybe your mind is closed that you wouldn't even consider trying it? Fourth, you have not tried the Rane ME60 to understand what makes it essential. Used without its EQ function, just as a line stage it beat my Spectral DMC10 preamp which was one of the best units in its day. Mrdecibel agreed that its transparency beats many preamps up to about $5000, although we would both admit that SOTA preamps today would probably have greater transparency. But most valuable is the EQ function. Boosting HF judiciously by ear enables much more palpability of all instruments and helps flawed speakers. Without EQ, a system doesn't approach live sound, but with EQ, a great speaker and source will offer live levels of realism. The effect is not to make HF tizzy, but to bring out overtones of even mid bass and midrange instruments. String instruments like cellos have the natural buzz of the string revealed, whereas without EQ they are just mud.
With an open mind, I can admit that today's digital EQ may be better than my analog Rane EQ, but the Rane is good enough so that I make adjustments by ear anyway. When you develop an open mind, I will then respect what you have to say.
Looks like I’m in minority if YT comments are indication but I preferred the video with the Merrill preamp to the one without a preamp on the Mags. I don’t think I could listen for long sessions without the preamp. Sounded a bit thin and maybe shrill (that’s too harsh but you get what I mean).
Huge preference of the Wilsons over the Mags but I know that not the point of this and they are way different pricepoint. Still think the Mags vs. ML will be extremely interesting. I wonder if results will be same with Gryphon amp and Parasound amps? Will everyone pick same speaker across the two amp choices, or would they prefer one with G and one with P??? That would be interesting also. So many possibilities when you have this variety of gear.
This is probably counterintuitive also but after a month of listening to videos I think Colliseum would be my preferred vs Mephisto given price difference for sure, maybe straight up. (to extent any legit comparisons can be drawn across YT vids, HA!! but it’s great fun)
on blind, duh, I guess that makes sense. I haven’t heard 20.7 in person (have heard 3.7 or 3.6 in person, latest whichever that is) and was hoping 20.7 would be a better contender bass wise so as not to be glaringly obvious. Kind of an indictment on a $14k speaker to say it can’t do full bass and that it is so obvious versus a competitor like you say to be so instantly recognizable in the deficiency.
@kren.. So doing a blindfolded shootout between the Magnepan 20.7 and the 13a Martin Logan won’t really work because it would be easy to know which speaker is which even if i dont show the speakers on the video; All you gotta do is listen for the one with full bass and that is the Logan. There is no getting around that.
@tjassoc
Alexia 1 vs Alexia 2 differences that i heard in my room:
Both have just about the same soundstage size
Bass on Alexia 2 is more layered. You can feel the bass separation better across the frequency range.
Alexia 2’s tweeter is a new generation (5th) so it is far superior. More detailed, more resolving, more air.
Alexia 2s midrange module internal volume is higher which i think helps the projection of the mids better, but this does not mean the Alexia 1 does not do that well.
Alexia 1 is harder to drive than Alexia 2. Both need quality power, but it is more important on the Alexia 1
Alexia 2 will reveal more of your upstream components. It is really a window in many regards. I felt that the Alexia 1 did fine with this, but not as good as the version 2
Alexia 1 might be more forgiving with poor recordings because the tweeter isn’t as refined (although still good). It can play "nice" with alot more music. Alexia 2 will murder you if you don’t have your sh1T together with quality components.
tweak1 I am definitely no expert on OB, the only speaker i owned that used the technology was Martin Logan Statement E2, where 16 7,5 inch drivers cover mid bass in an open baffle configuration, with excellent result. I am not questioning the tech, just viber6’s constant recommendation and categorization without even having heard or seen products. And maybe i am being unfair, but i read this thread over a 2 week period, and word for word he has probably posted 30% of the writing, ignoring many, many posts by Jay and other people to tone it down.
WC, Both videos of the 20.7 + Mephisto with and without the Christine preamp are fantastic. The music is palpably natural. DCS without the Christine is slightly more transparent with more head turning sparkle, so I prefer that. Still, the differences are small, at least heard on my computer, a tribute to the excellence of the Christine. If someone needs additional gain, the Christine is a good choice.
Your comment sounds as though you are an expert in OB speakers. Have you heard all the various OB speakers out there? I have OWNED Accoustat 2+2s with 4 upgraded servo amps, Magnepan 3.5Rs, as well as many box speakers, including; Harry Pearson’s personal pair of Genesis Vs, Nearfield Accoustics 7ft towers ($10K loudspeakers), Reference 3A MM de Capos + Sunfire Signature subs, Usher 6371s.
While Ive never owned or heard the Salks, or earlier EP OB models, my 3.4s (96dB) have 12" carbon fiber woofers with 0ne inch concentric polyester tweeters, which are absolutely incredible for all but the lowest bass. This will soon be corrected as I am waiting for 2.8s (98dB), which have the same 12" concentric woofer, BUT, with twin 15" carbon fiber woofers in a de appolito configuration. They can be driven by a single amp (my EVS 1200) BUT can be biamped to max the effect of the woofers
Jay - I asked before but you didn't answer, and since speakers are the topic again I'll ask you to share your experience: How does the Alexia I's compare to the Alexia II's?
for blind you’d really need to focus camera in on electronics. Blind could be fun bc most listeners probably arrive at at Mag/ML death match with strong preconceived notions of which they prefer, especially if they’ve explored that peninsula of speaker topology (yes I know they’re different technologies but closer than farther apart in broad speaker universe)
I don't dislike magico. The m series is great. I don't quite really love the S series though. A magico m2 versus Alexia 2 would be a dream...both priced almost identical..
Interesting for sure. But haven’t you always had an unfavorable impression of Magico when you have heard them?
Correct me if that is not right but over the course of this thread if memory serves (which is hit or miss) I thought you were always lukewarm at best on them??
Anyway, can’t wait for Magnepan/ ML shootout. Over course of whole thread this may be most evenly matched and anticipated head 2 head that could have most appeal to most people. IMO. Well the ARC/Lux/Dag preamp shootout was pretty badass too.
That's interesting about the room correction for the bass. This will be fun to hear what you think and for us to see and hear your videos. I'm thinking it should help with the blending of the bass section to the panel.
That is the plan :) Give me some time and more speakers will be arriving. Maybe i do the first Magico M series shootout versus my Alexia 2? hmmm... This has NEVER EVER been done.. A Magico M series in the same room with Wilson Alexia 2? I want to do what most people only dream of hearing even if it means they do it through a computer. IF, AND A BIG IF, if i can pull that off and have a Magico M series here and compare to my Alexia 2, i think i would have a tremendous amount of people biting their lips... :) You never know... never know..
anyhow, how did you guys find the 2 last videos I uploaded? One with a preamp and the other without a preamp. I'm curious to hear your thoughts. Thanks
@thezaks. I think what you are seeing is that some people here are tired of some other individuals who speculate. Keeping a AUDIO ONLY thread alive for this long isn't easy. There's a lot that needs to be done and tons of criticism plus opinion which is fine because this is a public forum. I don't want to make each page constantly about arguments or battles. I'm staying as focused as I can so I can continue to roll forward with this journey. Thanks for your observations.
The room correction for the bass section of the martin Logans. They have a kit you buy and you can correct the the bass drivers output. No you can't do room correction on the panel. Only the woofers.
I find it interesting that some choose to respond to other members speculations and opinions by ridiculing them (something that could be considered Prohibited content in the Audiogon Guidelines). I also find interesting the arrogance of some who choose to put down the equipment level/cost and choices of some members. These are things I try to deter my 10 year old from doing - that is, making fun of others, and demeaning and/or excluding others based upon what they have or don't have. Or, maybe I'm just in the minority on this thinking nowadays. Dave
some general thoughts on the recent equipment vids:
I really enjoy the comparison videos, but the "top 5 [x]" ones are based on multiple speakers, amps, and rooms. just don't think its proper or helpful. and you need to bring in Lamm, Vac, or other tube preamps than just ARC.
point of reference, i tried a well-known tube preamp on my Rowland and it sounded like crap. on my Ampzillas, makes the best sound I've heard out of my YGs.
the Maggies have a ton of promise with great soundstage and coherent bass - but dCS/Gryphon makes them sound thin and wiry like 80s cd. i'm sure you will find a better front end partner.
in fact, i much prefer the Coliseum vids to the Mephisto ones - the latter is high speed with no timbre nor decay. can only hope that after 500 hours it fills out. then again, i gave up on detail, resolution, and speed years ago. that's not what i hear with live instruments but hifi guys love them attributes.
viber6 So you know tweak1 personally and have heard his system ? Have you ever owned or heard open baffle speakers or application where the tech has been applied ? I have. As for your experience as an audiophile, your escapades on this thread give some idea of your practical level. You use 40 year old electrostatic speakers where only the high-frequency panels are active, if this is by choice or because of malfunction, you haven’t shared. Driven by a mid-fi low cost amp, connected with zip -cords, with a Rane pro audio equalizer as preamp. Have i missed anything ? I did scroll trough many of your early posts whenever i saw the words “Merrill” Rane” or “Clarity” life is just to short !
kps, not sure about zip cord. According to viber zip cord is pretty good. Not sure the Sylvania would be able to take advantage of a good cord like that. I own an appliance store so I figure I can cut the power cords off some old appliances we remove from peoples homes and my friend those. Speaking of which, where is our good buddy tecno today.
kps25sc, Perhaps you don't know of my 60 years of musical background and 45 years of audio experience. I have heard many things, but not everything. Same is true of everyone. But I have enough technical background to know that if someone says a minimonitor has tons of bass, it is not necessary to listen for yourself to know this is nonsense, unless you want to listen in a small dog house. Conversely, if a seemingly unbiased listener writes about technically plausible advantages confirmed by listening to a variety of music, his word can be respected. Of course, the ultimate arbiter is your own listening, but many things can be considered or rejected based on intelligent understanding. The field for auditioning has to be narrowed to the most likely candidates.
BTW, I know tweak1 who is a good listener with a long life of intelligent listening and professional audio experience. He was the one who opened my mind to the benefits of OB speakers. Do you have an open mind, or would you rather seek satisfaction from criticizing people who know what they are talking about?
And another speaker recommendation based solely on a googled review done by a reviewer with a system you don’t know of a speaker you have never seen or heard. If someone writes “sparkle” or “tone” you are always ready to spend Jay’s money.
WC, I understand and agree with your 4 pros and 4 cons about the 20.7 with Mephisto. Your present 20.7 system with all the top supporting components is possibly the finest 20.7 system in existence. Few Maggie owners have the quality of supporting components you do, largely because of bad industry-wide marketing that advises people to use cheap and expensive components with cheap and expensive speakers, respectively. However, the company says that some customers do have more expensive components. Magnepan should pay you to accommodate listeners who really want to hear what Maggies can do.
Your Alexia 2 system is possibly the finest such system, since top components are also used, but the Mephisto enables true appreciation of the differences between the two speakers. I went back and forth between the latest video with the 20.7 and the last video with the Wilson, using the same music. I think the 20.7 was recorded a little louder than the Wilson, so I adjusted the volumes as I compared.
Using my mediocre stock iMac audio, I cannot judge bass, imaging and spatiality, but I can compare the tonal qualities of each system. Yes, the 20.7 has a fine tweeter, but so does the Wilson. What makes the 20.7 my choice is the rest of the range, due to the low mass planar drivers, and the open baffle, boxless design. You can hear how the 20.7 presents voices and instruments most naturally as they are in real life, without the overlay of artificial resonances that come from boxes. The 20.7 shows the beautiful woman with a thin layer of clothing, but the Wilson shows her in a thicker coat so her fine features are obliterated to an extent. Obviously, she appears fuller in the thicker coat. So the fullness comes at the expense of natural detail. You can hear the true tonal character and detail of voices and instruments with the 20.7. Spatiality benefits also as the whole freq range of timbres is fully revealed.
This got me to thinking about the many dynamic speakers available using the open baffle (OB) design. Tweak1 writes that he had the Maggie 3.5 but couldn't get the ribbon tweeter to integrate with the rest of the range, to his satisfaction. So he got various Emerald Physics OB models, and got the natural detailed sound of his 3.5 plus more dynamics from the dynamic drivers used. I searched "open baffle speaker" on Agon. On the 1st page, look for the entries, "Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S open baffle speaker review" and "My new review of the Spatial Hologram M4 open baffle speaker." Since I have trouble linking whole articles, I excerpted from the Hologram review some pertinent statements that echo what I have been saying about the supreme importance of tonal quality.
"I now understand what posters on speaker forums mean when they say things like, 'Tone is everything. What good are imaging and bass extension if the instruments don’t sound like what they are?'
"This is one way in which the Hologram M4’s truly excel.They are masters of tone. Trumpets, saxophones and other wind instruments sound veryreal. Orchestral strings sound sweet and woody, with the shimmer of the real thing.Voices are as palpable, expressive andhumanas the best single driver designs that I’ve heard,and that’s really saying something."
Read his whole article, which I think is spot-on. He says much of the high cost of excellent speakers with box designs is that of the materials and engineering to make the box sound as boxless as possible, while attempting to get the powerful dynamics that come from box reinforcement. Personally, I believe that no box speaker can compete with a boxless design for absolutely natural lifelike sound The top Wilson Chronosonics are probably the best Wilsons, mainly because they best implement time alignment through their concave driver configuration, but before anyone spends $600K on Chronosonics they should listen to top OB speakers. Spatial sells direct for as low as $2K or less, and their top Lumin line starts at $20K. The Hologram M4 was $1300 at the time of the 2016 post. Clayton Shaw designed the Emerald Physics line before moving on to Spatial.
So my latest thinking is that for ultimate natural sound, OB offers the best prospects. Then the question comes down to which driver technology offers the closest simulation of natural voices and instruments. I still believe that lowest mass drivers like planar magnetics, ribbons, and electrostatics offer this. But OB dynamic drivers can now compete with those low mass drivers, and offer more dynamics to boot. The low mass drivers offer maximum purity with less bass. Take your choice.
So the 20.7 and ML 13A comparison will be most interesting.
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