2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab
20,890 responses 
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kren0006
1,859 posts
 
kps I can’t tell if you’re being serious with that statistic or not, but as ridiculous as the stat sounds I somehow wouldn’t doubt it. 
If it is true that is embarrassing. 

speedbump6
760 posts
 
Viber, I wouldn’t even know how to post a YouTube video, lol. I’d have to figure that out, and knowing myself, would entail purchasing some higher end equipment to record with. With what’s going on in my biz, I wouldn’t have the time at this point to do that, but I think might be fun to if when I do have  the time. But I’ll be happy to give my opinion of the moabs when they show up, at the this point at least im hoping they’ll still show up. 
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viber6
2,454 posts
 
speedbump6,
When you get the Tektons, I'll be interested in your observations about them, and how they compare to your Wilson.  If you don't feel like proving your claims with videos in the same room, which may be logistically difficult, I'll respect what you say, and take your word for it. You probably have better things to do with your time, like me.
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speedbump6
760 posts
 
Guyl, you must not have bothered to read vibers posts basically doing exactly what tecno was, calling him out to do what he wants because he’s afraid of the results? That’s rather childish I thought when tecno did it. I see people giving options on how to resolve that without asking someone to spend their money on something that dosnt fall into the realm of what’s he’s doing. No one here is at anyone’s else’s beck and call to provide the show they want to see and spend their money to make it happen. It’s one thing when people suggest products, ask about those products, have discussions about those products. What anyone decides to spend money and time on is their business. That’s not what has been happening in this case, but despite that, a truly viable option has been suggested that should logically answer the question for those who have doubts about the outcome. And maybe even possibly surprise many others with the outcome. And jay has made it clear that he’d be willing to incorporate that into a video if it works out. Many others here have expressed views different that the op, but don’t keep putting their personal preferences out there as if they’re the one true way of purity. Most of us realize that we all have different preferences and that different products may work better in some ways for those preferences. I’ve mentioned a few of mine over time, but feel no need to beat everyone over the head with every post about them. What I like dosnt work for everyone, and I’m just as intrested in what others like and why.
guyl
37 posts
 
@rbach
I wasn't thinking about him honestly. But yes from time to time his reaction has been very similar to posts he complained about (for good reasons) and when I read those 2 last posts it's hard to not see a negative contribution -unfortunately- but I'll let people judge. 

Look, my post was not about shooting people personally. This is an audio forum and it is used to discuss. As long as we stay on topic, diversity in opinions and observations should be welcome and appreciated. As an example, a few people mentioned that classical music is a good way to test a sound system irrespective of your taste in music. I find that opinion interesting on this thread (and agree with it) because it's been running for what 4 years and classical music was never used as a way to evaluate all these components. It's not WC's cup of tea I get that but still it would be fun to test a few tracks with this super system to see how that goes. I mean I'm sure that would benefit a lot of people reading that thread. People suggesting this are not asking the OP to buy a very expensive component just to do that kind of test so why not? It's WC's prerogative to accept or refuse but that does not mean the request/proposal is stupid or inappropriate. I don't understand why people are turned down and asked to stop reading or leave the discussion if they're not happy. See my point? Otherwise there's no point in starting/reading/contributing to a discussion. Youtube is probably a better medium if the only thing you want is show off your gear but I do believe that WC has decided to start a thread on Audigon to share ideas and get ideas in return. Unless I'm mistaken. 
rbach
200 posts
 
@guyl

Those people/posts ARE derailing this thread.

Did you read the OP's last 2 posts? I guess you are grouping him in with the people/posts that ARE derailing this thread.
guyl
37 posts
 
Hey guys,

would it be possible to have constructive discussions about audio without this constant bashing, arrogant observations (mostly about Viber who's acting as a true gentleman in the circumstances) and similar posts that not only lead nowhere but give the impression of children in the school's backyard? Come on guys, this thread used to be interesting and informative but now more than 50% of the posts are to denigrate another poster and/or his opinion. What's this? The same people who came to WC's defense and said he should not be told what to do or what do buy are now telling Viber and others exactly the contrary.  I don't know Viber and maybe sometimes his posts are long and repetitive but he's sticking to the subject i.e. audio and often makes good points like others here. I'm pretty sure his messages are more appreciated by the silent readers of this thread like me than the constant posts bashing him or other posters who may think differently or express an opinion that is diverging from the mainstream. Those people/posts ARE derailing this thread.

Thanks in advance
speedbump6
760 posts
 
Great idea Ron. I have doubts it will happen, but it would be very easy to do. I suppose that if his system doesn’t come out on top, then maybe it’s our lack of sophistication and appreciation for his specific music and listening preferences, but I think I can live with that stigma, lol. I’m assuming it will sound great, just don’t see how it could compare to jays system, but the ears don’t lie. What I don’t understand if the benchmark is really all that he believes it is, and with its price point, why isn’t that product already a part of his system. What am I missing? 
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ron17
607 posts
 
I meant no disrespect to viber when I suggested he record his system playing music he loves. I truly think it would better explain what he's been saying for almost 1500 posts. We could all hear the detail, clarity and neutrality he demands in his own system.....and Jays.
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jetter
3,094 posts
 
+++ron17, assuming that Jay and viber are good with it that is a brilliant idea.  While we have read hundreds (ok, over a thousand) posts of how good v's system sounds, we can listen for ourselves.

Heck, he can even record himself playing the violin and then play it over his system so we can hear how the "real" unamplified instrument sounds compared to it being played on his system.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uv1PxInJnY 
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ron17
607 posts
 
viber

I have a better idea....at zero cost to you. Why don't you choose a piece of music that you think would best represent your system and record it with your phone, the same way Jay has been doing for months. Then send it to him so he can play it on his youtube channel for all of us to see and hear. We would not only get a taste of the music you think should be used to evaluate gear but also we would finally be able to see your system, the way you've set it up and the neutrality of it.....Maybe then we would better understand your point of view.  
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viber6
2,454 posts
 
Jay,
I would be happy to recommend classical music that is not violin-centric, and which has a variety of instruments of all dynamics and freq ranges, with ensembles, large and small.  The problem is that without a reference of live unamplified music, any assertions of what is neutral or natural are questionable.  Most followers here have little exposure or listening experience to natural instruments to appreciate this.  Instead of accusing and ratting against me, they would do better by opening their minds.  Classical music has a much larger range of sounds and sound spaces than any music you have presented.  I have listened to many varieties of music with an open mind and ear, but classical needs more time to appreciate, and the rewards are worth the time needed to understand it.  It takes more time to learn to be a pilot than to drive a car, but the rewards are greater.

For readers with impaired reading comprehension, I know what Benchmark sounds like because I heard it for over 1 month, and I know that it outperforms most electronics at much higher prices.  Many other educated listeners have noted the same.  So if you want to open your mind to what it offers, you can spend the money.  But if you feel that Benchmark is not your thing, without hearing it, that shows that you are mainly following your pre-conceived agenda.   Perhaps Boulder amps will be found to be somewhat euphonic compared to the Mephisto.  You don't know until you listen.  There is a reasonable possibility that the Benchmark has more clarity and neutrality than the Boulder, but you won't know it until you listen.  
kps25sc
149 posts
 
jetter
He is what he says he is. I have read his yelp reviews.
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jetter
3,094 posts
 
It would be nice if viber accepts WC’s challenge and buys the benchmark. If by chance he is what he portrays himself to be it should not be an economic strain. To put this benchmark issue to rest after what seems like years of reading v's same identical message will be a blessing.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Viber
Why don't you buy the benchmark? Then send to me ? You seem to be the most interested in affordable gear that performs in a big way. I don't have any interest in benchmark. Not for any  particular reason other than I'm walking my own path and my path doesn't have benchmark written on it. 
However, if you send it to me then I'll go ahead and evaluate it. Benchmark seems to be more up your alley than mine if you really think about it. 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
Viber, you suddenly sound like tecno. I still have never heard Jay say you had to spend what he spends to get great sound, in fact just the opposite. Why the “ challenges” to “prove” something. Only three people I’ve seen now that you’re mentioning it seem to be intrested. Two do it just to annoy. I think you truly believe the Benchmark might actually equal the Mephisto. I’d suggest quit trying so hard to coerce him to prove things to satisfy a small number of people. He’s doing what he wants, not taking requests. The requests would never end if he tried. If you’re so truly interested in this comparison, buy one( maybe even buy one used on Audiogon to save a bit) ship it to him to see. If you end you hearing what you like, then when you get it back you can replace what you currently have In your system. The other problem I can foresee, if it dosnt sound so great, then will come the request to change some of the other equipment, for better synergy, as something will be deemed inadequate with those components.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Viber 
If your main thing is the violin and classical music than I get it. Your selection of components does the trick for you. That said, I can probably assume (hopefully I'm not wrong) that most of us here aren't strictly classical music fanatics or violin lovers. I could not buy all the gear I have today just to hear a violin. I understand why you won't spend more money on electronics if your main thing is classical and violins. I also could not buy an expensive dodge viper acr if I have to drive it at 40 mph everyday and can't race it. Why spend so much money if I can't really use all of its potential? Hell I would do what you do: Buy more reasonably priced components since you're not really going to be doing more than the 2 dimensions of music genres you are mainly drawn to. 
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viber6
2,454 posts
 
keithr, 
I tried Bryston models 4B (original from 1978), 4B ST, 4B SST2, 3B SST.  They were all vastly inferior to my 2.5B SST2 for clarity, snap, etc.

"Real experience?"  Tell me what your musical background is.  What is your listening experience, and are you a master in playing any natural, unamplified instrument, playing with various ensembles publicly and privately in many countries, participating in master classes over many decades?  Aside from quoting distortion measurements, what qualifies you to judge what is neutral, natural?  How much classical music do you know?  This music is so complex that clarity/detail is top priority.
viber6
2,454 posts
 
Jay,
Your Alexia 2 speakers are one of the best, but all speakers, including mine, have much more distortion and coloration than even midlevel electronics.  Many flawed speakers are still good enough to tell lots of differences between electronics and cables, but confusion about which electronics sound more real is largely due to the large deviations of all speakers from reality.  A lot of this discussion is akin to debating which lipstick looks better on a pig (the speaker).

This is a meaningless discussion from all sides.  Kren0006 is correct in saying listening is more important than discussion (to paraphrase).  Spend a little money (less than $3K for the Benchmark LA4), and then tell us objectively what you hear.  You've spent more than that on shipping costs, and gas and wear/tear on your car traveling to pick up heavy amps and such.  Your net loss after selling it will be maybe $1K, but maybe you will be surprised at how good it is, so you can recommend it to high performance/dollar clients.

I say again that my Mytek Brooklyn AMP+ beat the other much more expensive class D amps I heard at home for focus, clarity, neutrality.  If you doubt my honesty about the Mytek or others' honesty about what they heard with the Benchmark LA4, you can spend a little money to prove your assertions that cheap things cannot possibly compete with expensive things.  Don't say that WE should spend the money for what we already know.
keithr
1,306 posts
 
@kren0006 Amen brother! 
keithr
1,306 posts
 
@viber6 - what amps and preamps have you actually owned? Because I'm not hearing (m)any. 

I've owned a Bryston 4BSST. I've owned 20 other amps in the past 10 years, tube, SS, class A, class AB, SET, PP, etc. I don't rely on reviews to tell me what to think (nor does WCSS). In fact my Ampzilla 2000 2nd editions just beat the Luxman 900u, Pass X350.8, Rowland 625s2, and others on my YG speakers. 

Those Benchmarks you suggest are re-sold by everyone I know- just like their Dac was 10 years ago when it was hot, but dead/flat sounding. Your way isn't the highway here, despite your continued pressing on WCSS and others as to what is "neutral." Most of those awful SS amps have high order distortion that isn't "neutral." A coloration of a different kind. Nelson Pass has an excellent white paper on the subject that folks like you love to ignore. 

So forgive me if belittling others liking "euphony" doesn't sway us who have real experience. 
kps25sc
149 posts
 
I run MBL 101E’s with mono 9011 amps and Martin Logan Statement E2 subwoofer stacks. I have not tried Mephisto in my system, but they are as well built and as powerful as the MBL amps.
I used big Krell‘s  previously, but they did not have the resolution or mid bass power that MBL has.
justmetoo's avatar
justmetoo
381 posts
 
WC, thanks for your response,
I THINK what I'm reading in your take of my mentioning, is aligning with what I had to say. 
I'm NOT speaking from theory - at all - but from my very own listening experience, with my own equipment. 

I agree that this still seems the current status regarding DAC direct, yet things can or may change, "Nix is fix". Ever, eh? 

Interesting also for me to learn, that some of your thread's followers in deed are running MBL Biegewandler, and do have positive experience with the use of alternative power-amp sources, to those monsterous MBL mono-block :). 
M. 🇿🇦 
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Listening beats theory/pontificating/wishing/projecting any day. Always
kps25sc
149 posts
 
justmetoo 
I do believe the Mephisto is perfectly capable of driving the big MBL’s, you just need 2 stereo amps, or 4 monos. My big MBL 9011 amps where designed specifically to drive the difficult load of MBL speakers, but Mephisto is a capable devil !
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
@justmetoo:

Good points above. I also wanted to say the following:
1. Stereophile clearly loved the benchmark but compared it to higher end linestages such as the momentum hd and well they pretty much spoke how they felt about its performance when comparing it to other levels of linestages.

2. I spoke about how I feel about using dac direct versus no preamp by doing comparisons

My point? Both points have to do with REAL comparisons in the same environment. Both come from hands on experience. These points above validate the opinion quite a bit more than the person who only has "an idea" of what an ultra high end component must bring to the table and how an affordable component should or could either best it or match it in performance. To me, that becomes a narrative and not a reality. Yes, we all can create whatever narrative or form any opinion we want but that does not mean you know it is true.

Isn’t that how the court system works? If you don’t have proof of a damn thing then how can the judge believe what you are saying? It gets dismissed in a court of law right? He sends you the hell home and case is closed.
" Sir, you are accusing him of stealing from your store. Do you have proof? A video? Witnesses?
No your honor, I don’t ..I just think he stole it because he was the only person standing in the Isle before it went missing"

justmetoo's avatar
justmetoo
381 posts
 
Just two points,
one new, and one pretty old - and actually just repeating what I'd to say a long while back in this thread I.e. using DAC direct into amp. 

So FINALY there seems some more agreement on the subject as it APPEARS. GOOD! 
a) To reiterated; even with a most finely resolving ladder resistor (R-2R, analogue) DAC output volume control i.e. no bit stripping, the use of a good quality preamp improves SQ.

This, even ages ago, was found to be the case during Sterophile's J. Atkinson testing Levison gear, which I use and which I could confirm also. No if or but. 

b) Regards Viber6 comment about Wilson Alexia2 and 'the weakest link' ... 

IMO, WC's top notch frontend equipment is in fact, practically relegating ANY speaker to the 'weakest link' - in this system setup.
 
At this extremely high frontend quality level this is practically unavoidable. 

This is perhaps a more philosophically stated point of view, and in NO WAY diminishes the very top SQ achieved. 

So much so, that as stated, this speaker is revealing minute changes, that a lesser quality speaker would hardly be able to do. 

Never the less, it can still be the 'weakest link' (for now?). 
Only, e.g. some top of the line MBL 'Biegewandler' MIGHT change this, by pointing back at the frontend setup.
Though, the question would arise, what sort of monster mono-blocks, other than the MBL items, would then bring everything back into a new 'balance'? 
M. 🇿🇦 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Interesting Kren. 
I have no reason to not believe that this dac isn't as good as the 11k hegel. They aren't exactly leagues apart from a price stand point. 
Luxman class a Integrated for $9500 stumped on the accuphase e800 I had here which retails for $20k. 
As soon as luxman releases their new reference monos, I will throw my name on the waiting list. 
I love luxman. I can't echo that more than I have. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
@dasign 
I am very happy to hear that you learned something from my journey. I am happy you also agree with the importance of a linestage and what it accomplishes. I no longer have to second guess myself anymore with regards to the conversation of no preamp or preamp in the mix. That is a dead subject for me. 
That said, maybe in the next few years there will be new dacs that will change things for all of us. 
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Looks like that Plinius had msrp of $7800ish per Stereophile 2011 review.

Would be cool to get a true best at $5k msrp WC pick, but it’s probably been so long since you’ve had current models in that price tier that such a rating would be tough.

This will draw some laughs, but the Cambridge Audio Edge W at $4k is really good compared to anything else under $5k that I’ve heard. I own one in my secondary system. One of the Brit audio mags reviewed the Edge A integrated (which has same amp circuit) at $6k and directly compared it to the $11k Hegel H590 and said it was just as good at half the price.

See, I can appreciate the budget stuff too! Just keep it in perspective versus the big boys (not all, but generally).
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
I’ll take, "'Only place you’ll hear this,' for $1000"

Answer:
"I wasn’t born with Wilson and Gryphon"

What is "only on an audio forum"
dasign's avatar
dasign
201 posts
 
Jay, I've been following this thread for a while now, as well as your YT Channel with great interest. I was pleasantly surprised when you compared DAC direct VS DAC through a preamp. The preamp VS no preamp dilemna was resolved for me, once I heard the audio quality improvement on your video. 

My front end equipment consists of the following: Arris TM722G Cable Modem/Ethernet/Asus RT-N66U/Ethernet/Sonore OpticalModule/Ethernet Fiber/Sonore OpticalRendu/USB/Benchmark DAC3HGC. The fiber network before the DAC3 HGC was critical in reducing background noise/veil. I listen mainly music either through my home network and Tidal via Roon.

Since I've owned every iteration of the Benchmark DAC's which I really liked, I decided to jump on the preamp bandwagon and purchased the Benhmark LA4 preamp. My listening preference is fidelity to the source with no coloration coming from the gear. If the recording sucks or is great, I want to hear it.

I've had the LA4 for a week now, and all I can confirm that inserting a preamp between my DAC and my monoblocks, greatly improved the sound quality of my system. Just for that, I thank you sir!

The soundstage has exploded and musicality has increased in quality, like if a veil was lifted. The music is tonally richer and organic, like 'more meat on the bones' effect, while keeping a noiseless/black background with the insertion of the LA4 preamp.

So the net effect on my system was an increase in 'thereness' if that word exists. I'm not saying that the LA4 is better than the MBL, D'Agostino or Audio Research preamps. Just saying that in my situation, with current gear I own, the LA4 has helped increasing the joy of listening to music.


jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Yes, the sa103 remains the best amp under 5k (used price) in my opinion. 
That would be my amp if I were looking to build an affordable set up. Just buy a great powercord, good interconnects and that amp will drive anything and knowing that it can be used as mono is icing on the cake. 
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
On gear pricing and rating, if you’ve been paying attention WC has rated his three best ever amplifiers for the dollar. At under $10k it was Luxman L590axii. I later got WC to admit that nothing under $12k that he’s had including Pass or anything else beat that class A Luxman. At $15k it was Luxman 900u, and at whatever the Gryphon Colloseum goes for, that was the third one. No mention of the lower quality ones like Bryston or others he’s owned (just check post #1 for that list).

Edit:  If memory serves, although it wasn't in that video, I am pretty sure that WC has stated in the $5k range some Plinius amp is the best available that he's had.
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