My impressions of the much Hyped LAIV Harmony DAC (I ordered one and Listened to it.)
My System:
Speakers: Oris Orphean Horns with Klipschorn Bass Bins
Amps: Bi-Amped Korneff SET 45 Monoblock Clones on the Oris Horns with Dual MiniDSP 500 watts on the Bass Bins
Pre-Amp – Don Sach Model 2 (4) 6SN7 Tubes
Dacs – SMSL D400EX Vs. LAIV Harmony each fed by USB Raspberry Pi running PiCorePlayer
Short Story – I returned it.
Long Story – It was the Process and details of the return that I learned the most about the company. The past year there has been a lot of hype regarding the LAIV Dacs. ‘Best DAC under $5 Grand’ etc. etc. etc. So, I went to the LAIV website and looked over their Products. And I see this too ! They have
30 Day Returns !! --- So, yes I want to ‘Shop safe and Smart’ also.
I was interested enough that I went to their return policy page to find what a ‘home audition’ would cost me. After all the Harmony was going to cost me $2675 (I got a $25 discount by joining their ‘club’) , so it better be special and not something that I had to ‘strain’ to hear a difference between my existing SMSL D400ex (a measly $1 Grand Dac). The below is from their web page regarding refunds.
Refunds
Upon arrival at our approved destination, your product will undergo a thorough inspection to ensure it remains in pristine condition with all original materials intact. The process typically within 5 to 10 business days.
Upon completion of the inspection, and assuming all criteria are met, we will promptly notify you of the receipt of your product and initiate the refund process. Please allow 7 to 10 days for the refund to reflect in your account. Kindly note that a restocking fee listed below will be deducted from the refund amount.
Harmony DAC - $200/unit
Harmony HP2A - $200/unit
Harmony GaNM - $250/pair
Harmony µDAC - $125/unit
Harmony µDDC - $125/unit
Harmony LExt - $100/unit
Additionally, All orders will be subject to an additional deduction of 4.5% of the order amount from the refund due to non-refundable payment platform fees.In the event that the return items do not meet our standards of mint condition, we will provide notification and advice regarding any open box fees, in addition to restocking fees, incurred due to damages.Furthermore, if you have incurred import taxes on your delivered products, the responsibility lies with you to claim a refund from the respective carrier (e.g., DHL, FedEx, UPS, etc.).We're committed to ensuring you're happy with your purchase. If you have any questions or concerns, please check out our terms and conditions or reach out to us. We're here to help!
So, I briefly scanned the page and saw that the Harmony Dac had a $200 restocking fee. So, that was
definitely at my upper limit of an audition. And $200 was on the high side, in my opinion. But I wanted the Dac and wanted to believe the hype, so I was hoping that I would think that the Dac was worth $2,675 to me, and I would not have to return it.
So, in listening to the LAIV for a few days, I could not discern a difference between my Cheapie $1 Grand SMSL D400ex and the LAIV Harmony. (So, yes, the Emperor has no clothes). I had both DACs plugged into my Preamp and had two Identical Streamers plugged into each Dac, playing in Sync the exact same Music. So, it was very easy to switch back and forth between Dacs and discern any differences. So I started the ‘return process’.
I contacted LAIV and receive the following response:
***********************************************************************************
“Please find the attached repacking and return guide and go through the guide to prepare the return units.
Just a friendly reminder to provide the following information as outlined in the guide!
1. A photo of the device showing the serial number clearly.
2. A photo of the device showing the top view and bottom view of the device.
3. A photo of the device box after packed.
4. A photo of the device box inside the shipping box.
5. A photo of the shipping box after seal up.
6. A photo of the complete package with the outer shipping box showing the serial number.
If all items are in mint condition, the expected total refund will be as follows:
$2,675 - $200 (Restocking fees) - $120 (4.5% Payment Platform fees) = $2,355
***********************************************************************************
So, oh F*ck, I missed the ‘extra’ $120 for god knows what reason! So, now the audition would cost me $320 – which I would have passed on if it was included in the restock fee next to the Harmony Dac. No way would I pay $320 for an audition. Maybe that’s why it wasn’t there (camouflaged, I’d say, - make up your own mind). Anyway they got me on that one. If this was shopping smart, why do I feel so stupid?
--- Not a bad profit, I’d say. They got $320 of pure profit, and they got their Dac back in ‘Mint’ condition. Maybe the return business is better than actually selling Dacs?
Then I notice the seven photos I’ll have to take (Never had to do this one before) and then I open the attached ‘repacking and return guide’. It’s 17 Fricken Pages! So, this Repacking and Return guide is written better and more complete than any user manual that I’ve ever seen. So, it dawns on me that this company is really planning on a lot of returns. This is part of their Business Plan! Now I really hate this company and vow to never do business with them again. Yup, they have made me an Enemy for Life by sneakingly hiding their total restock fee.
This is a Public Service announcement. If you are interested in LAIV products, and considering an audition, keep in mind their ‘return procedures’ and don’t forget to add another 4.5% to the restocking fee. *************** You’re Welcome! – You can’t download the repacking and return manual and I could not attach it to this post, as it was too large. But if you want a copy e-mail or message me and I’ll send you a copy.
| Post removed |
@gents , I didn’t realize asking someone a single question on a discussion forum constituted stalking and fixation. That’s pretty much exactly the purpose of a discussion forum. All you had to do was respond with an answer like a normal person, but instead you perpetuate and escalate this matter with insults, swearing, and off the wall accusations. Nothing you’re stating is based in reality. Perhaps you should just let this matter go for your sake and those around you. |
Some may be confused about I2S and it's use with dacs. I2S alone may be of dubious or of no value vs other inputs, its the ability to replace dac internal master clock with an external clock located in DDC or streamer with I2S output where the real value lies. As such, the clock and power supply to that clock in DDC/streamer must be superior to dac internal clock to derive any benefit, furthermore, DDC/streamer clocks and power supplies vary greatly, YMMV dependent on unit chosen, obviously a better DDC/streamer will provide superior performance with chosen dac. Next, the native I2S signal path within dacs not originally deigned for use with external clocks or I2S interface, therefore, the optimal pathway for I2S is to have master clock directly adjacent to I2S pathway. Having clock located in external component and running I2S signal/path through a cable is not optimal in that it adds jitter via reflections inherent in these cable runs. In order to minimize this added jitter I2S cables should never surpass 1/2M length, less would be even better but impractical.
Using DDC/streamer clock to replace dac internal clock requires the following implementation. In dac menu clock is set to sync mode, this means one is now using DDC/streamer clock, async means one is using dac internal clock. You must also access menu in dac and/or DDC/streamer to properly assign matching I2S pin outs/ins in these two components.
Finally, inputs to DDC should also be fully optimized in order to extract best audio quality, this will usually mean usb, so all the usual optimizations of usb when using usb inputs on dac continue to hold. Adding a high quality I2S interface is not to be taken lightly, adds complexity and can be quite costly, still, it can pay off vs even very optimized usb implementation in dacs.
Again, the Harmony provides very ordinary usb input, they acknowledge this by offering Laiv DDC. Finally, other DDC may offer even better performance than Laiv unit. Point is there can be much variability in achieving max performance from Harmony, I2S may be perhaps the least of it, using mediocre streamers will not come close to offering max performance, using a Rasperry Pi doesn't come close to offering full Harmony experience. And I know this from direct experience using RPi as a previous streamer, this with other dacs. |
| Post removed |
@audiostick Hello, Thanks for referencing the I2S recommendation thread. By the time I'm done, I'll be needing two I2S cables. So in addition to the Furutech I already have, I just ordered .6M DH Labs HDMI 2.1 Silver. The retailer was very enthusiastic about that cable. I saw that you had an interest in the forthcoming LAiV Streamer. Me too, but when I last contacted them, they don't expect availability til next year, nor could they tell me if it will be a bare bones streamer (my preference,) or loaded with bells and whistles. I can't wait that long, anyway. My current streamer is glitching. So, as soon as I can scrape my pennies together, I intend to buy a Volumio Rivo Plus. Happy listening! |
