Muzishare R100 300B 805 ... My Review and opinion

But im just not a tube guy i guess

No you just have not found the right Tube Gear.

Audio Hungary Qualiton X200 plenty of bass.

Quicksilver Integrated plenty of bass.

Raven Audio Blackhawk plenty of bass.

I agree that there is plenty of good Chinese gear out there and there is a lot of way better American and European gear.

SS maybe the safe bet, lots of great SS gear out there too.

Enjoy the journey.

earlflynn;
Being a zero negative feedback guy i never bothered with those designs as the bass they make isn't on the source material and is out of phase anyway.
And though sub bass phase is measurably inaudible, its upper harmonics as mentioned above, are indeed. One thing I've noticed over my 30+ year adventure in HiFi is tube rolling is almost always centered around finding that mid bass lushness. To date, its never happened for me, and i believe its becuz tube amps are basically incapable of reproducing a proper bottom end unless technics are used that compromise other areas of the virtual sonic image (like using feedback)
Dont get me wrong, im all about "to each his own" but there is an undeniable technical reality here. As people hear things differently, tubes will always be a favorite of many. Again, i guess im just not a tube guy and this is just my analogy based on actual experience.
Good luck with your sales.

Again, i guess im just not a tube guy and this is just my analogy based on actual experience.

@chrisschuster. Glad you found your sweet spot then, and enjoy. My self I find the X200 mid bass is excellent and truly enjoy tubes as much or more that SS amps. And that is my opinion. I have also enjoyed Hybrid designs by Pathos and McIntosh over the years.

Glad you found your happy place and at least you tried other topography in your system before passing generalized judgment.

Have a great holiday and be safe.

PS Blackhawk sold and I am keeping the Quicksilver mid base and EL34 lubes are wonderful for the office.

Mozartfan;
Jadis Amps use negative feed back that adjusts relative to output, is user selectable and in all cases cause phase anomalies.
Again, to each his own, Tubes will live on guys. But there are technical realities here that have never changed sense the onset of using tubes as a full range amplification device in a full range audio play back system. Why do you think McIntosh is all SS now? :)
Bass is far and away the hardest thing to get right. Massive phase shifts, room anomalies, speaker cabinet deficiencies ect. Sense Tube amps without feedback inherently reduce and minimize these sonic effects with the attenuated bass response, a lot of midrange detail can now be heard as it is no longer covered up by mal-aligned or manufactured bass information (such is the case with a feedback tube amp to varying degrees), thus "tube magic"

McIntosh is not all SS.

They have 2 hybrids in the line.

McIntosh is hardly the benchmark for me anyway. Was and still am a Simaudio guy along with my tubes.

Enjoy.

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/amplifiers/MC1502

Fact Check Wrong!!!!!!! 

Tubes will live on guys. But there are technical realities here that have never changed sense the onset of using tubes as a full range amplification device in a full range audio play back system. Why do you think McIntosh is all SS now? :)

@earlflynn;

McIntosh did indeed discontinue tube amp production for a very long block of time from 1970 all the way to 2004 (barring a couple of commemorative models).
Tube amp production was revitalized when McIntosh saw how some of their 1960s amps were selling on Ebay for about 20 times what they cost originally (feel free to call them and ask). It was a marketing play...plain and simple.
To further that, check out the MC910 dual mono. Tube top and SS bottom. What does that tell you? :)

Again, to each his own but facts are facts.

And also once again, people hear things differently so these are subjective conversations we have, so nobody is truly right or wrong, but I myself tend to lean on logics side and things I can measure and prove to myself with my own ears (like double blind testing, real time switchers and things like that).
I personally have never believed that a person can listen to a piece of audio gear, then shut it off, swap it with another one, power it back up, and then make accurate analogize on what they hear, unless there are major and technically measurable "sonic" differences between the two. You have to be able to switch back and forth in real time and then do multiple switching sessions at different times of day, during different moods, wether your hungry or full, all these things have a profound effect on the way humans hear.

But more on that later :)

@chrisschuster for the purpose of this guys post I was right and still am.
Facts are Facts they make tube  equipment and the post is misleading.
McIntosh has never been the standard in my world though. Owned a couple of their amps tube and SS and sold them in less than a year.

@earlflynn.The purpose of the post is spelled out in the thread title. Its clear your eyes are as subjective as your ears.
Let me have my opinion. I think I've gone to enough lengths to at least show how ive arrived at the decisions I've made with my audio gear therefore lending usable insight to my fellow forum readers.
Your just attempting to stifle that insight because you think it might threaten your sales. I HIGHLY doubt that will be the case so rock-on brother!
McIntosh is more than just an idle example of what makes HiFi manufactures do what they do, and nobody ever said they were a bench mark (as there is no such thing IMO) but they are indeed the standard, because so much HiFi gear sounds exactly the same and can be proven to that fact. It is the subjectiveness and resultant opinion of us humans as HiFi consumers that keep this hobby/industry going and ANY HiFi manufacturer knows this or they won't be in biz very long (hence McIntosh bringing tubes amps back). The technology and resultant sonic improvements of this stuff has moved hardly millimeters in the last 30 years. The vast majority of would be product innovation being mere gimmicks. These guys HAVE to do this or they are dead and so is a wonderful hobby/industry.
Back to the Muzishare. Its sounds exactly like an amp you can buy from an ANY manufacturer for 6 times the price easy. Its a smoking value, built from a solid group of off the shelf parts (mostly American made) in a chassis that'll last years and years.... Just don't drop the damn thing (as a shipper did to another owners amp) ! Does it re-write the book on tube amp sound...absolutely not because no tube amp currently does IMO. Its the price that is THE main attraction here.

My previous system was comprised of Harvey Rosenthal modified Mingda 3008A monoblocks driving the top and mids and a Parasound A21 driving the base of my Tekton Double impact speakers. The Preamp was a David Shulte modded Parasound JC2, an outstanding piece before the mod, extraordinary after (Shulte is an absolute magician; the late Harvey Rosenthal knew everything about any tube circuit ever used.). It conveniently has two preamp outputs and both amps have their own gain adjustments, so I was able to balance the system.

The decision to buy the Muzishare R100 (805) version was based on a desire to simplify my life. Having used both, I have a preference for certain aspects of both technologies. As many have said, in general, tube amps are not known for their bass performance. I must say that the Mingda monoblocks provided adequate bass with the Double Impact speakers at 98+Db efficiency, the bi-amping being something of a tweak to get even more bass depth and solidity. I listen (mostly) to classical music, and am sensitive to sound stage presentation and tonality.

Out of the box, the Muzishare sounded different, surprisingly different. According to the vendor, the amp does not sound "acceptable" until about 30 hours of use, then improves quite a bit by 100 hours, and achieves near peak performance at 300 hours. At first, after a short listen to it as an integrated amp, I naturally assumed that driving it with the Parasound preamp would produce the best results, so that is how I listened for quite a while. Nevertheless, my friend Sandy of sandy@levyphoto.com, an expert in things tubes, and I both thought it sounded "very good" almost right out of the box, with the stock tubes.

The vendor suggested listening to the amp for a year with the stock tubes, but I have no such patience. Some folks like vinyl playback equipment because of all the tweaking they can do to maximize performance. I believe the same thing to be true with vacuum tube amp owners. If you don’t believe me, check out the prices of some NOS tube types on eBay.

Although I could here describe my experience with each tube change, I’ll get to the (current) bottom line. There is an old saying among tube folks that they would prefer a modest amp with great tubes over a great amp with modest tubes.

One has not scratched the surface of the R100’s performance with the stock tubes. While I have rolled tubes in many different amps and preamps during my 45-year audio life, I have never heard a unit that is so revealing of tube changes.

One of the biggest surprises came with the change to the rectifier tube. I went online looking for recommendations for the "best" 5U4s. I looked at rectifier cross-reference/substitution tables. During this process I discovered in my tube box a rectifier made by Mullard with the Haltron label, that is on eBay for ~$300. I could not resist briefly installing it to see what the fuss was about. The fuss is fully justified. But given its value, I quickly removed it from the amp and stuck it back into inventory.

I found that I also had a bunch of NOS tubes with Westinghouse brand labels of the same rectifier type. I stuck one in and listened to it for a while. Then, after about a week or so, the tube just failed. Hey, it happens with tubes. It has always happened, albeit not as frequently as some folks believe. So now I am listening with another of those tubes and so far, so good.

I read that an earlier version of the 6SN7 is really good, but requires an adapter for the anode cap. I will try those, too. Somewhen down the road, I will replace the 300B tubes. The prices of those are really ridiculous, so it will have to wait.

So far, with upgraded tubes, the R100 has been transformed. The iron and the internal components must be pretty good. The tranny windings for 2021, I read, use OCC copper along with the Japanese-made cores.

Regarding the bass performance....
I still have the Parasound A21, just in case, but with the tube rolling I have done, just in the preamp stages and rectifier of the amp, the bass has become excellent. On orchestral music, rolling kettle drums and bass instruments sound like they should. I played the Mercury reissue, of the1812 overture remastered by Wilma Cozart-Fine, the one with real cannons and carillon. It is amazing. Nothing is lost. The cannon shots sound real, better than they did with my old setup. The dynamics and tonality of the carillon must be heard to be believed. (That 1812 Overture disk is now on my list of demo disks).

Organ music, and the low frequencies on The Gladiator, also are all there.

My suspicion has always been that tube amps can produce bass just fine, depending on the speakers with which they are used. I the "good old days" when all they had were, by today’s standards, relatively low power tube amps, all they used was high-efficiency speakers. There was no bass shortage. And I don’t have a shortage with my setup. Of course, YMMV.

As bass drivers got smaller in order to fit in the box sizes for the home, by necessity the throw of the bass drivers got longer, requiring a higher damping factor from amps. Also, lower speaker efficiencies required more amp power. So beware of generalizations about tube amp bass.

In any case, after some more time passes and I can attest to its reliability, I am like to highly recommend the Muzishare R100 (805, 50 wpc) version (I haven’t heard the 211 or 845 versions). Candidly, I bought the 805 version for two reasons. The first was that I was familiar with the sound of the 805s from the MingDa amp, and second, should I need more power with a future speaker change, I may not need to switch amps.

One tip: I have put some small quiet fans on top of the trannies to blow some air across the tubes. I am told that may help them live a longer life. At low speed, the fans are inaudible from the seating position. IDK, but it couldn’t hurt. I have found that tube dampers, properly used also make a nice difference by reducing vibrations and microphonics. Remember tubes stick out of the amp and are exposed to the vibrations of the music. Also, even the best transformers also produce vibrations. Try dampers. They are an inexpensive effective tweak. I won’t tell you that I get mine from sandy@levyphoto.com lest you think I am schilling for him.

Over the years I’ve had planar speakers, both electrostatic and planar magnetic, and several different "standard" speakers. For a while, I was even a part-owner in a speaker company. IMO, the Tekton speakers may be the best value in audio. The Muzishare, although not cheap, also appears to be of tremendous value. Even the highly toted Line Magnetic amps don’t use a rectifier tube except in their much more expensive "Pro" line. The inclusion of a phono section for MM is also a nice addition, although I have no idea how good or useful it is. Nevertheless, for someone who just wants to move back to vinyl, it could be a nice starter phono section.

P.S. I have no ownership or distribution rights or any interest in any product or service provider mentioned above.

What solid state amp are you using that has zero feedback?

@earlflynn are those amps Push Pull and not SET?

Wow. Random one to bump while I’m shopping for one of these today, not sure but this might be the amp for me. 
 

@chrisschuster do you still have it? 

Jaytor:

Anything from Theta or Ayre

blkwrxwgn:

Sense it really didn't hold a candle to the Dreadnaught I (stripped to just two cards), I sent it back to China Via Amazon return.

Highly recommended though!

805 or 845 is a king in the tube world,and this time, the amplifier is the set one,which make the sound even beautiful.i am doubt before that, op do have a chance to listen 805 or 845 amplifiers? If that does not happened before, it is the reason you found it is surprising good this time.

But there are 2 drawbacks here,

1, set amplifier has less power,which is not good for some low sensitivity speaker.

2, the signal to noise rate is way low compared some mainstream amplifier.

For example, luxman could search 117

While 805,845 set amplifier is way below 100.