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Thanks Frogman, I went to Finland several times when I lived in Germany, would LOVE to live there forever if that was possible.Am an Englund fan.
Re, Glazunov, WI Pubic Radio is playing his Salon Waltz Piano
piece right this second. They play him fairly often and have a CD quality signal, best programming I've heard either here or in Europe. |
I am wondering about the interest level of listeners in this thread in composers that are "way out" at the bleeding edge of modernism. For example, do people really love the music of Luigi Nono, or just find it interesting or hate it? I find him interesting, but, I don't really love the music.
What do you folks think of Giacinto Scelsi? I have been listening to some of his works recently and I am sort of coming around on him. Many years ago I purchased an LP of vocal music that employed microtonal singing. Back then, I thought it sounded aweful (I imagined that this is what Yoko Ono sounds like in labor). But now, I find it much more palatable.
I am curious about where other listeners place the boundary of too-far-out-to-listen-to. |
Larryi, Yoko Ono in labor, or even not in labor, would be way out of my boundry. Thanks for the chuckle. |
Hello everyone, I have had to be away from this board for a few days. Glad to see all the posts here! First, I agree with Brownsfan on Britten, though I don't think he is underrated by musicians, anyway.
John Adams - he is most certainly a minimalist composer, and I would agree with Frogman that he is more talented than most. He is certainly more "accessible" than most.
I definitely agree with all of Frogman's nominations, by the way.
And last, I cannot help but comment that Stravinsky has to be considered one of the ten greatest composers ever. He and Bartok both are in there based on sheer compositional craft alone. Let me make another visual art analogy - Stravinsky is the Picasso of music - he could do anything in any style. He is perhaps the only composer other than Mozart who was successful in all genres, too. |
I once heard an English Critic refer to Stravinsky as the Jane Austen of music,
so skilled at his craft he has to be in the Canon, but really
doesn't have much to say.
His words , not mine. |
Larryi and Frogman, your posts above prompted me to dust of some Langaard CDs that haven't gotten much playing time. I have to say I do like his string quartets, at least the ones I've heard. |
"so skilled at his craft he has to be in the Canon, but really doesn't have much to say."
Right on Target! Sort of like a lot of modern day 'Jazz' players / composers.
And to think, some folks say he is "right up there with Mozart"!!!! Makes a body wonder.
Cheers |
Speaking of jazz, Rok and Frogman, why have there suddenly been no new posts on that thread?
As for the English critic's comment, that to me doesn't even deserve a response, really. The very idea that Stravinsky "really doesn't have much to say" is of course sheer nonsense, both intellectually and musically. I would say it belongs in Nicholas Slonimsky's famous book of musical invective, except it's not really invective, just sheer ignorance. It certainly should have revoked his credentials to be a serious music critic, that's for sure. |
Just because a particular composer doesn't "speak to me" does not mean he "doesn't have much to say." It would be unfair for me to presume that I understand all that a composer is trying to express and what I got out of that particular composer amounts to "not much." |
Thanks for chiming in on that bit of critical "flat earth thinking" regarding Stravinsky Learsfool. To suggest Stravinsky lacks a place among the highest echelon of composers leaves me flabbergasted. Send me to the proverbial desert island, give me daily does of Bach and Stravinsky, and I would suffer little. |
I don't know how much thinking has to do with it, seems to me its like women, you like what you like and thats an end to it. |
Shubert, I'll toss this one up to dispute the proposition that no rock musician/composer can be a genius. Ammonia Avenue. Shows that take the rock/pop veneer off of certain compositions and perhaps even many of the great classical composers over the years might be proud, especially when crosses over into progressive/art rock territory. |
I did THINK that anyone would know I was referring only to Classical.
Those not alive and of the age of reason before rock arose have no idea of the great harm rock has done to society.
And thats not just the sour-grapes of an old man. |
"Those not alive and of the age of reason before rock arose have no idea of the great harm rock has done to society."
I have to wonder about rock music as a cause of great harm as opposed to being part of the reaction to great harm. Great harm certainly existed in spades prior to rock music. The major World Wars and all that came after those are just the most recent and better known examples. |
"Those not alive and of the age of reason before _____ arose have no idea of the great harm _____ has done to society." - A great number of idiots throughout history
"All those whose mind entitles themselves,and whose main entitle is themselves,shall feel the wrath of my bombast!" - Mark E. Smith (rock musician) |
Of course there has always been evil, and Rock has been a great help to the evil one in glorifying the baser elements of human nature to its service . |
Maybe the core of Rock and pop culture in general also serves a more redeeming second purpose by helping to bring all those baser elements out into plain view where they are easier to deal with, rather than be hidden where they might strike without warning?
I tend to believe both to be true. Plus not all rock/pop culture is bad/evil. There are more shades of grey involved, not pure black and white. |
The ancient strategy of the evil one is to cloak evil in the guise of banality.
A person, or a society, is either getting better or worse.
Not all rock is bad or evil per se, but its no help which
in the end is evil. You don't get to"hell' by jumping off a cliff but by sliding down a slope.
True, there are shades of gray , but the important stuff tends toward black and white.
Its true there is less hypocrisy now than before rock,which may be a good thing in personal relations but is not necessarily a good thing for society in general.
Hypocrisy is the tribute vice plays to virtue, permission to feel guilt-free is no advance. |
I am a big believer in the concept of Yin and Yang. THere are many things in nature that are both beautiful and dangerous at the same time. PEople learn to appreciate the beauty while avoiding the danger. Many might walk up to teh edge of a cliff for the scenic overview, but they also know not to jump off. Its part of survival of the fittest, natural selection, etc. Homo Sapiens have gotten to where they are today mainly by using their brains. If that cahnges, I have a gut feeling that rock music will have little to do with it. |
Harry Partch, who not only was a prolific composer but also developed his own instruments and microtonal scales should also be included in any list of the "underappreciateds". |
More than one here, so can't be "most" but perhaps, "very"?...
Edgar Varese
George Crumb
While I do not have first hand experience of their work, from doing a little reading on "minimalism" as it pertains to music, these two names deserve consideration:
La Monte Young
Henning Christiansen |
If by "underrated" we simply mean deserving more acclaim than we think has been afforded so far, I would say Prokofiev. But maybe I'm just "out of the loop." |
Conlon Nancarro! Works for player piano! I have a multi - CD set of these! Not one person in a million remembers him! |
