More power?

I have driven my AP virgo's with a variety of amps. I found that adding power definitely increased the bass response. You can also decide to sacrifice imaging by placing them near the rear wall - that will increase the bass quite a bit.

I am driving mine with the vt100m2, alternating with pass labs aleph 2's. The vt100 actually has more powerful bass than the alephs. I formerly drove them with a mccormack dna-1 revA/Gold. That amp completely changed the virgo's personality from a good all-arounder to a bass monster. It was startling how powerful their bass was with that amp. I also drove them with a set of sonic frontiers sfm-160 160watt tube amps. Those had better bass than my vt100m2. I own a newer vt100m2 now - I think it sounds better than the old one I had.

If you go with a subwoofer, I recommend you stay with the audio physic line. I think a mismatched sub could screw up the virgo's wonderful clean bass performance. AP makes a smaller sub, the Luna, that you might want to consider.

A third choice you might want to consider is to try some el-34 tubes in your conrad johnson. My old conrad johnson 45watt mv-50 had el-34's in it. EL-34's are known for gutsy bass. It actually outperformed the vt100 when used with my magnepan 1.6QR's. No question about it. I know you can special order a premier 11 with those tubes. Call CJ.

The C-J Premier 11's two serious shortcomings are a lack of bass punch and narrow soundstage. An ARC VT-100 mk2 or BAT VK-60 would be great improvements on both fronts, as would a pair of Premier 12s(as least according to C-J).

I am in full agreement with Onhwy61. It really does not make a difference how much more power you feed the Virgos, the subwoofer(s) is the only solution. I lived in a huge loft and know exactly what you are going through.

I recently went from a CJ 11 to 8a's to drive my Martin Logan ReQuests. The difference was huge. Most noticeable was a big improvement in the bottom end. Try to find some 12's that you can try at home. I think you're efforts will be rewarded. Gook luck.

The recommendation for 2 subs is not related to stereo performance. 2 subs, if properly set up, will provide smoother bass with greater dynamic headroom. A single sub, again assuming exacting setup, will enhance, not impair the soundstage performance. Much of the soundstage information is derived from low frequency hall sound which only a full range speaker or a subwoofer can provide. Regarding using a single sub and imaging, if you set the crossover correctly, stereo imaging will not be impaired. This assumes that the sub is not too far to one side. Either the Audio Physic or the REL models will be easy to integrate into your system. Good luck!

And if I can't use two subwoofers, will using just one (off to one side) have an effect on the stereo imaging?

Based on your statement that your room is a very open loft, what you require is a subwoofer. While they don't go down into the 20Hz range, the Virgo is not lacking in bass when used in a reasonable sized room. In larger spaces they simply cannot pump out the volume with their somewhat smallish woofers. Would recommend either the Audio Physics models (Luna or Rhea) or the better REL units (Stadium, Stentor or Studio). If you can place the subwoofer in a corner, you will have all the bass you've ever dreamed about. BTW, two subs are better than 1.

Thanks for the response. I live in a loft, very open space, fairly assymetrical with high ceilings. When I listen I have to pull the speakers out to the middle of the room (and rearrange all of the furniture that's in the way...), and yes, they are toed in. I listen fairly near field (I've tried to follow the Audio Physic speaker placement guidelines as best I can). I get all the promised imaging and soundstage results, but just not much bass slam. Modifying the room (i.e. with tube traps, etc.) is not an option. I was thinking that because of the room size I might simply need more power to get the low end, but I would hate to spend the money and then realize that I had already gotten all the low end I can get out of the speakers with the CJ 11. Someone had suggested the Rogue M120 Monos as a possible option... In all other respects, I completely agree with your statement about the Virgos re: value and performance. After many hours of auditioning, I've concluded that I can't really find a better speaker unless I spend at least double the price, and so I'm just trying to get as much out of them as I can.

If I am not mistaken, the CJ 11 is 70 watts into 4 ohms. I just recently heard the Virgos driven by an ARC VT100 along with a BAT VK-30SE, and bass was not a problem. ARCs tend to run lower than they state so my guess would be they are really 90 or so. I find it hard to believe that 20 watts are going to make that much a difference.

The Virgos do sound best in the middle of the room with you closer to them than you would be to most speakers. Do you have them pointing to you (highly toed in)? I would not suggest spending the money on a new amp, but to continue to work on the speaker placement as well as the room itself. Please tell us more about the setup and room.

The PS Audio will not make that much of a difference in what you are looking for. It helps clean up noise related to power but will not give more bass. It may help tighten things up a touch, but I would not rely on that.

Audio Physics are a great value and give you things that no other speaker in the same price range can, huge staging and terrific imaging. They are worth keeping only if you can have them setup properly without destroying your marriage. :)